Fixed Bartolomeu and Assassin Storylines: Effect of Nation Relations

[Pieter Boelen]

@Bartolomeu o Portugues: Do your storylines require the player to capture/sink any non-pirate ships while the player also does not have a LoM?
If so, that will need to be addressed one way or another.

 

[Grey Roger]

"Assassin" requires you to sink or capture a French warship when you leave Cozumel during "The Cannons of Mona", and another one towards the end of the same quest, La Couronne. Also, there are a couple of periods in which you have no specific mission and are set loose to do a bit of free-play - the vice-admiral says "I want you increase your skills at sea by attacking hostile ships".

"Bartolomeu" requires you to capture a Spanish warship for "Anaconda's Capture"; to sink or capture a Dutch ship near the end of "A Strange Statuette"; and to sink or capture a Spanish ship during "The Hunter".

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks, @Grey Roger; I seemed to remember that was indeed the case.

There are a couple of options then to address that:
- For specific quest ships, we can exclude them from the "update nation relations" functionality like I did for the Standard Storyline
- Give an appropriate LoM to the players as part of the story
- Disable part of the "update nation relations" functionality for these storylines altogether
- Create an "Agent License" or something like that which gives you the "legal basis" for attacks similar to a LoM, but does not set you up for promotions

I'd definitely welcome your ideas and of course especially those of @Bartolomeu o Portugues himself!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I created a new issue out of the above, since something will need to be done about this.
But for now I'm "Awaiting Information" before we can decide how to tackle this one.

 

[Grey Roger]

I've just thought of another problem for Elting. A Spanish LoM won't do him any good for the attacks on the French ships because Spain is allied to France. In fact, when he attacks French ships - including La Couronne on orders from the vice-admiral - it's going to ruin his relations with Spain! An English LoM from the Antigua port admiral would at least make the attacks legal, though, and the first French ship Elting has to attack is during a mission on behalf of said port admiral. And the vice admiral suggests hoisting an English flag prior to attacking La Couronne. Is there some way to store your rank with Spain before the attack, then restore it afterwards? (Failing that, perhaps the vice admiral can give you a rank with Spain as a reward for destroying the Isla Mona cannons.)

Last time I played "Assassin", I bought both Spanish and English LoM's anyway. Attacking French ships didn't upset Spain in that version but it did mean the French didn't like me, which meant La Couronne was already hostile because it recognised me.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've just thought of another problem for Elting. A Spanish LoM won't do him any good for the attacks on the French ships because Spain is allied to France. In fact, when he attacks French ships - including La Couronne on orders from the vice-admiral - it's going to ruin his relations with Spain! An English LoM from the Antigua port admiral would at least make the attacks legal, though, and the first French ship Elting has to attack is during a mission on behalf of said port admiral. And the vice admiral suggests hoisting an English flag prior to attacking La Couronne. Is there some way to store your rank with Spain before the attack, then restore it afterwards? (Failing that, perhaps the vice admiral can give you a rank with Spain as a reward for destroying the Isla Mona cannons.)

Why is the story forcing you to attack French ships when your "served nation" isn't actually hostile to France?
I'm sure there was a reason; I just can't remember now....

Anyway, it is easy enough to mark those particular ships so that they don't cause any adverse nation relations.
That is the same as the solution I applied to the Standard Storyline now.
And similar to my solution for the Animists sidequest, I can force ships to be hostile to you regardless of nation relations; that is all very easy.
As long as it applies to specific quest ships and not "ships in general".

I'm more concerned with the points where you have to "free play" to make money.
In those cases, I think you do need some sort of legal basis for attacking ships of certain nations.
Surely when the vice-admiral tells you "I want you increase your skills at sea by attacking hostile ships", he doesn't mean "only pirates" or "I want you to ignore what I'm saying here and make some money through honest trading".
So a LoM might be in orer there. Or my proposed "Agent License" to have something inbetween LoM and not having any legal reason for any attacks.

 

[Grey Roger]

Why is the story forcing you to attack French ships when your "served nation" isn't actually hostile to France?
I'm sure there was a reason; I just can't remember now....

Plot. The first one is when you're working for the port admiral of Antigua, doing some jobs for him so that he'll trust you enough to assign you as escort to a supply ship to Isla Mona. (Which reminds me. There's another French ship you need to sink/capture for the port admiral.) As for La Couronne, that's a bit more complicated. Earlier in the story you find out that France has allied with Portugal, which is hostile to Spain. Taking La Couronne, which is France's most powerful ship in the Caribbean, is the vice-admiral's way of making the French think that maybe this was a mistake.

Anyway, it is easy enough to mark those particular ships so that they don't cause any adverse nation relations.
That is the same as the solution I applied to the Standard Storyline now.

Except that La Couronne is not alone, it has two escorts. They'll need to be marked as well.

So, if I interpret "quests_reaction.c" and the contents of "PROGRAM\Storyline\Assassin\characters\init" correctly, you'll need to do this for:
Belleville, captain Rabel Chardon, to be found in "TempQuest.c" (first job for Antigua port admiral);
La Precieuse, captain Clement Bossicar, also in "TempQuest.c" (your second job for Antigua port admiral is to accompany an attempt to colonise Cozumel, but you find the French got there first and this ship meets you on the way out);
La Couronne, captain French_Captain1, to be found in "TempQuestEnemy.c" (his real name is Gilles Chenault but his ID is "French_Captain1");
La Licorne, captain French_Captain2, also in "TempQuestEnemy.c" (real name Aimery Bourgouin, escort for La Couronne);
Le Foudrayant, captain French_Captain3, also in "TempQuestEnemy.c" (real name Guibert d'Aigreville, escort for La Couronne)

I'm more concerned with the points where you have to "free play" to make money.
In those cases, I think you do need some sort of legal basis for attacking ships of certain nations.
Surely when the vice-admiral tells you "I want you increase your skills at sea by attacking hostile ships", he doesn't mean "only pirates" or "I want you to ignore what I'm saying here and make some money through honest trading".
So a LoM might be in orer there. Or my proposed "Agent License" to have something inbetween LoM and not having any legal reason for any attacks.

That depends on whether @Bartolomeu o Portugues wants the player to earn promotions as an intentional consequence of the story.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Plot. The first one is when you're working for the port admiral of Antigua, doing some jobs for him so that he'll trust you enough to assign you as escort to a supply ship to Isla Mona. (Which reminds me. There's another French ship you need to sink/capture for the port admiral.) As for La Couronne, that's a bit more complicated. Earlier in the story you find out that France has allied with Portugal, which is hostile to Spain. Taking La Couronne, which is France's most powerful ship in the Caribbean, is the vice-admiral's way of making the French think that maybe this was a mistake.

Thanks. Indeed it then makes sense to add ship-specific exceptions similar to Silehard in the Standard storyline.

Actually, maybe a better solution (or at least part thereof) could be to have nation relations change as part of the story.
For example, should France and Spain not be neutral to each other when France and Portugal become allies?
Then at least when attacking a French ship (for Spain), Spain won't actually object to it.

Except that La Couronne is not alone, it has two escorts. They'll need to be marked as well.

Look up Silehard in the Standard Storyline character init file to see how it is set up.
They're all quest ships, so it should be a simple one-line fix per ship to exclude them.

That depends on whether @Bartolomeu o Portugues wants the player to earn promotions as an intentional consequence of the story.

Indeed. Hopefully he'll drop by soon to provide his own thoughts.
I suspect some sort of "License to Kill" that isn't a full LoM might be required.
That could also provide a solution to those people who never want to get negative points with the pirates, despite having no specific national allegiance through a LoM or navy rank.

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

To be short, I just want not to have my storylines messed up . I let you choose the best way to avoid any problems with the storylines.
BTW: Telling the truth, @Grey Roger and @Talisman know better than me my storylines. ( I simply don't remember the last time I played my storylines... just for playing )

So, I thank them to quickly answer to your questions, Pieter

 

[Pieter Boelen]

To be short, I just want not to have my storylines messed up . I let you choose the best way to avoid any problems with the storylines.

Main query is: Do you want Bartolomeu to get a Portuguese LoM and Elting to get a Spanish one as part of the story?

If not, we need to think of an alternate solution.
Right now, if you don't have a LoM, you aren't supposed to be sinking/capturing any enemy ships.
I can add exceptions for specific quest ships, but that doesn't work for generic ones.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Grey Roger: Just so you know, there are three character attributes at the moment which can be added to characters' init entries that affect the whole nation relations thing:

ch.skipFalseFlag = true; // PB: Skip False Flag Detection

This is for the Montanez so that she won't object to being saved by a potentially hostile player using a friendly false flag.

ch.skipRM = true; // PB: Skip Relations Mod

This is for several Standard Storyline quest ships, including Silehard's, and also the Animist ones.
It prevents you from getting any (negative or positive) relation changes from your battles with them.

Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Dark Captain")].recognized = true; // PB: Ensure they're hostile!

Ships that have previously recognized you will ALWAYS be hostile to you, regardless of nation relations.
So you can add that attribute to quest ships that are meant to be hostile to you regardless of the flag you're flying.
I've done that for the Mefisto, for example.

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

Alright, Bartolomeu could have a LoM when he starts working for the Governor of Grenade and Elting a Spanish one when working for the Spanish Admiral and afterwards a Dutch one if he doesn't kill Bartolomeu in the storyline.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks. That'll need adding then at the appropriate points in the story.

 

[Grey Roger]

Relations between France and Spain: historically they were not allies in 1660 (start of "Bartolomeu" storyline) or 1662 (start of "Assassin" storyline). They had recently been at war (1635-1659), and would be again (1667-68). In game, the default in "Periods.c" is to make them enemies. So it's not unreasonable for France to break its alliance with Spain in the game, especially if it finds out who was responsible for the Fougeuse mysteriously exploding at Sao Jorge. In fact, if it breaks the alliance soon after that, the way is clear for Elting to take on the French ships while he's working for the Antigua port admiral. Or, having evidence supplied by Elting that France has allied with Portugal, it could be Spain which breaks the alliance with France. Decide which and alter the vice-admiral's dialog accordingly.

Letter of Marque for Elting: probably the most sensible way to allow him to legally attack Spain's enemies. He'll need an English one as well - the Antigua port admiral ought to be able to give him that, especially since his first mission for Elting is to attack a French ship.

Agent's licence: the vice-admiral could give this to Elting instead of a LoM, if we really want to prevent Elting from being promoted by Spain. (Which won't work anyway, at least when I'm playing, because if the vice-admiral won't give me a LoM then the governor of Havana will sell me one. )

That could also provide a solution to those people who never want to get negative points with the pirates, despite having no specific national allegiance through a LoM or navy rank.

Not really, since any such licence must also be issued by a nation and therefore ties you to that nation. Milady de Winter had something of the sort, a document which said that whatever she did was for the good of France and was authorised by France. (Hint: don't let the document be stolen and used against you. )

 

[Grey Roger]

Alright, Bartolomeu could have a LoM when he starts working for the Governor of Grenade and Elting a Spanish one when working for the Spanish Admiral and afterwards a Dutch one if he doesn't kill Bartolomeu in the storyline.

Bartolomeu: by the time he's working for the governor of La Grenade, during "Cartagena Firework", it's too late - he captures the Anaconda and takes on the Dutch ship a lot earlier than that. Then again, Bartolomeu is supposed to be a pirate, so what's wrong with letting him commit some acts of piracy?

Elting: the Dutch LoM after he returns to Kralendijk and makes his peace with Holland does make sense. And lose the Spanish LoM soon after he befriends Bartolomeu because Spain won't like him joining the pirate he's supposed to have arrested, plus Elting doesn't want to work for Spain any more!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Agent's licence: the vice-admiral could give this to Elting instead of a LoM, if we really want to prevent Elting from being promoted by Spain. (Which won't work anyway, at least when I'm playing, because if the vice-admiral won't give me a LoM then the governor of Havana will sell me one. )

I don't think there is a specific need to prevent him getting a LoM, though that could be arranged if really wanted.

Not really, since any such licence must also be issued by a nation and therefore ties you to that nation. Milady de Winter had something of the sort, a document which said that whatever she did was for the good of France and was authorised by France. (Hint: don't let the document be stolen and used against you. )

Doesn't exist in the game yet, of course; but maybe it should be added.
I wonder if a general "your actions are no piracy, unless done under a pirate flag" item might suffice.
After all, the nation does not matter so much; you're not gaining points with them anyway.

Bartolomeu: by the time he's working for the governor of La Grenade, during "Cartagena Firework", it's too late - he captures the Anaconda and takes on the Dutch ship a lot earlier than that. Then again, Bartolomeu is supposed to be a pirate, so what's wrong with letting him commit some acts of piracy?

True. Nothing wrong with some good old-fashioned pirating!

Elting: the Dutch LoM after he returns to Kralendijk and makes his peace with Holland does make sense. And lose the Spanish LoM soon after he befriends Bartolomeu because Spain won't like him joining the pirate he's supposed to have arrested, plus Elting doesn't want to work for Spain any more!

Sounds good to me!

I wonder who could actually make the required changes though. Ideally @Bartolomeu o Portugues himself, I imagine.
And you would know what you're doing with it as well, of course. Don't think we've got many other people available for it.

After Beta 4 is released and I've sorted out a foundation for the reputation changes I'm planning, I might have to play through all storylines myself and make some needed tweaks here and there.
So if nobody else can handle it before that, I suppose eventually I could. But that isn't likely to happen any time soon....

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

Bartolomeu: by the time he's working for the governor of La Grenade, during "Cartagena Firework", it's too late - he captures the Anaconda and takes on the Dutch ship a lot earlier than that. Then again, Bartolomeu is supposed to be a pirate, so what's wrong with letting him commit some acts of piracy?

My idea was to give the LoM during the Hunter quest when the Portuguese Governor asks me ( heuuu... the Bartolomeu one in the game ) to kill Arturo Campos. So, you think it shouldn't be a good idea
Otherwise, I can add the LoM in the storylines if you want to, Pieter. For Elting, everybody agrees about my suggestion. Now, confirm what is the best solution for Bartolomeu...

 

[Grey Roger]

Ah, OK. I'd forgotten that you talk to the governor of Sao Jorge at that point. Yes, if the Portuguese governor is asking you to attack a ship then he should be the one to give you the LoM to make it legal.

It's still too late to affect the capture of Anaconda and the fight with Gherarde de Jongh's ship, but those are not on behalf of any governor, if I recall correctly. They are acts of piracy so may as well be treated as such. Unless the player chooses to visit Sao Jorge before the story requires it, and buy a LoM. Therefore be careful when you arrange for the Portuguese governor to give Bartolomeu a LoM - what happens if you give a Portuguese LoM to a character who already has one and has earned promotion?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Bartolomeu o Portugues: If you could do it, that would be great!

I think your suggestions are perfectly fine for both Bartolomeu and Elting. As @Grey Roger points out, the Anaconda is not actually a problem. It is piracy and would be treated as such.
If somebody does think it needs addressing, we can add the "skipRM" attribute to her captain. That is easy enough.

Unless the player chooses to visit Sao Jorge before the story requires it, and buy a LoM. Therefore be careful when you arrange for the Portuguese governor to give Bartolomeu a LoM - what happens if you give a Portuguese LoM to a character who already has one and has earned promotion?

Not entirely sure. But that can be checked and fixed to ensure it doesn't mess up your existing rank.
Should not be so hard.

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

I can do that, Pieter. I just need to create a condition that confirms the player doesn't already have a LoM of a specific nation, right?