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Build 13 bugs

<!--quoteo(post=172889:date=Nov 21 2006, 05:00 PM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 21 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]172889[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Silver Leaf minlevels: 17 - 22
Atwood minlevels: 22 - 27

...................

And another... make sure you have "RANDOM_DUNGEON_BLADES" set to 0. Setting that to 1 does somethign weird.
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<b>I've done a complete manual re-install of PotC and the Build13 - no 'leftovers' possible</b>

And a 'Conquestidor'? check the save game zip file i've attached. new install, all i've changed is '#define RARE_MAXLEVEL_ABOVE 1' (from the default 10). plus 33_ronald as a start char.

In the save i'm level 1 - non of my points have been distributed(so luck =1). Ok the little hiding place under the warf at Oxbay was empty, which it normaly isn't. The crate in the right hand corner of the beach had a worn cutless in it - normal behaviour.

First turn right once i'm in Oxbay - avoid CCC's pitfall <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> - head for the barrel in the corner behind the houses and the few shrubs. open it and found the weapon you can see me holding in the save game - a 'worn' conquestidor. First game, first try, with those settings. somethings broke <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> ( and wasn't happening in beta8(rc1) - not sure about beta9(rc2),as i was waiting for the release)

I just checked our beta8(rc1) and in it '#define RARE_MAXLEVEL_ABOVE' is 10 - so that wasn't a problem in that version.

ok it only gave me 352kb of global space for attatchment here( i needed 450k) - so i'll put it on the ftp in my Black Bart folder. Look for "Oxbay.Oxbay15-04-1690.zip"

Ref "RANDOM_DUNGEON_BLADES" set to 0, thats the default isnt it? if so its unchanged(as usual).
 
Just so you know, as you seem to be stuck on thinking there has been a change in beta 8 to release:

NOTHING has been changed with item spawns since August 28th 2006 when the code to limit them was added. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
 
Please see issue:

<a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/view.php?id=295" target="_blank">http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/view.php?id=295</a>
 
weird isnt it? so is it even possible to find that blade that early with those stats? I'll chalk one event down to luck, and keep testing then after a while i'll go back to beta8 and see what i notice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[lol again we're posting at the same time!] - so dont worry about the above.

thanks for the code fixes hat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> - soooo was i right...about part of it? - its very difficult to know not knowing the code side of this all - i can only say what i see+'feel' <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

Hope i didnt come across to ....rude or anything!? I was having a 'freaking out' momment <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=172868:date=Nov 21 2006, 01:46 PM:name=Jason)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Nov 21 2006, 01:46 PM) [snapback]172868[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Do you get the "locked padlock" icon when you are at the usual exit?</b>

Yes

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the things you posted elsewhere, are they still an issue?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I just started playing the build so I don't know.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How did you get to St. Martin before that, by Stormy Start or by regular sailing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Stormy start.
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Thanks a lot, with those infos it was rather easy to fix them. Though while testing those two I already encountered half a dozen bugs <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Details on the bugtracker.
 
CCC: Nice catch, mate. Thanks for updating everyone on everything that you've run into since investigating this!

Cap'n Drow
 
just to say i've been testing Hats fixes for the wierd/not quite working random loot pick up settings. I've only used the one file so far, thats the second file "TIH_11-21_InitItemCodeFix_for13.0.1.2.zip". The reason is that after looking at both files and comparing them with winmerge to the beta8 files, the error of the 'n' being in place of '-1' is in the InitItems.c file.

So far i've got to level 7 without seeing any of the best blades(which according to the maths Hat was explaining to me, is correct for a player with just 1 luck at this level). So as far as i'm concerned its working better than ever.....as long as they do turn up at some point <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> I have noticed i'm finding the better of the standard blades as i went up the levels - so that feels like this is working as it should.

The other file i'll put in later once i've seen one of the great blades in the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

[Updated my bug/issues report(post #7) - a new bug found!]
 
ok tested today with both of those fixes hat did - and everything is much better. possibly for the first time since playing 12.1(full)(I should make it clear that build 12.1 was when i first noticed the flood of great items from game start!) - all the random item/corpse loot is working in the rpg(fixed to your level) manner.

Level 9 now and found my first 'nicholas sharp' sabers in the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
Anyway the balance is back in the 'over powerfull player vs' stakes - but there are a few hiccups i've decided to call bugs that will need addressing to finish the balancing off in this area.....all updated in my bug/issue post(#7)
 
<!--quoteo(post=172781:date=Nov 20 2006, 10:18 PM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Nov 20 2006, 10:18 PM) [snapback]172781[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>6. Documentation:</b>

The "About 13.0.0.2" section of the game menu - i thought all this info was going to include all the Beta-tester/modder update info? As we have in the build13 info doc? Plus there are a few typos in this in-game document(spelling/grammer). So what file holds all this info - i'm happy to update it for inclusion in 13.1 etc
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RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\ENGLISH\about_build.txt. I forgot to update that one. The interface still contains the text from the very original first Build 13 ReadMe version.
 
Thanks Pieter - i'll only be adding names, so i wont edit/change anything already on that file(unless they have already been mentioned), and i'll post you the results to look over when done.
 
<!--quoteo(post=172773:date=Nov 20 2006, 09:27 PM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Nov 20 2006, 09:27 PM) [snapback]172773[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>8. Bug/Gamplay/Perk(major):</b> - i seem to be immortal know,and i think the 'Tuffness' perk is the culprit. An example: That part of the 'deliver a locked box to redmond' quest, where those two un-dead pirates attack you outside the inn; well today i could just stand there, not defending(sword sheathed) and they couldn't do enough consistant damage to kill me - the 'perk' made me immortal.

Suggest: look again at how it calculates its effects, check they are not wrong - and if its working as it should we need to reduce its effectiveness. If i want to cheat - i'll put the cheatmode on.
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heh -i'm quoting myself! But only because this kinda brakes the game. So i want to talk about this some more and see if we can come up with a fix in time for the weekend re-release of the build13 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

I got the perk around level 5 i think - and as i'm pretty swish with my 'excellent' falchion and melee skill of 8(at the time), i had got used to ploughing through land encounters.

It wasn't untill i met the 'immortal' dudes in Redmond, when they wanted that chest from me - that i noticed i was 'immortal' also! They couldn't do enough damage quickly enough to counter act the healing boost that perk was giving me. At least i think thats what was happening <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

I used a stock game - i hate cheats, so i've never touched the enable cheatmode thing, and i'm fairly certain that it was the choice of this perk that made me aware of the issue(before then i had died a few times in combat etc).

Ideas? Sugestions?
 
The toughness perk does seem a bit "overbalanced". You can still die with it on hard boardings, but I reckon it might be turned down a notch.
 
<!--quoteo(post=173211:date=Nov 24 2006, 03:28 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 24 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]173211[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
The toughness perk does seem a bit "overbalanced". You can still die with it on hard boardings, but I reckon it might be turned down a notch.
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<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> "you can 'still' die with it on hard boardings"!!!!! it should not make you invincible - you got the cheat codes for that imho <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Once you select it as a perk it becomes difficult to die - unless you go looking for it! It will need some adjustment as it also has knock on effects for other game balance issues <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> maybe the idea behind it was to better enable your officers to survive? if so then thats ok - we just need to make it so the player cant choose it or uses a different version?

So which bits of the code handles this perk?
 
In LAi_character.c, around line 557:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
{
    hp = stf(chr_ai.hp) + dlthp*dltTime*80;
}
else
{
    hp = stf(chr_ai.hp) + dlthp*dltTime;
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

so if you have toughness, you heal at <b>80</b> times the standard rate!

I personally have changed that 80 to 25 on my system. It might be worth making that an <b>InternalSettings.h</b> entry.

It does make your officers much more vulnerable unless you get the gold armour for them. (Then they're mostly immortal again)
 
That's EIGHT times, not EIGHTY. Look at all the rest of the code as well and you'll see what I mean.

The toughness perk will generally allow you to survive any one-on-one fight, especially at the lowest difficulty levels. But not all fights are one-on-one, or at the lower difficulities.

Do a boarding at difficulty 3 without armor and tell me the toughness perk is overpowered. For that matter, do a boarding at difficulty level TWO without armor and tell me it's overpowered.

After getting my computer fixed so it wouldn't reboot (the new power supply worked nicely for those who remember) I got back into the game with a low level character at difficulty 2. I had toughness perk but no armor, and was dying in about 1 boarding out of 3, against 1 or 2 opponents at the time, despite my best efforts. You see, in a boarding your opponents are set up to be more evenly matched than the random enounters in town. Boardings are more difficult than even the dungeons. At difficulty level 3 you can die with toughness, gold armor and a solingen rapier unless you're very careful, and you'll have to use health potions as well.

As far as I know, no one's complained about the new boarding code making the game too hard. Most people who have commented on it seem to like it. Maybe the real fix is to make the random lowlife encounters in town a bit more difficult, more like the boardings, where your opponents are based on your character level.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=173230:date=Nov 24 2006, 07:30 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Nov 24 2006, 07:30 PM) [snapback]173230[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
.........

As far as I know, no one's complained about the new boarding code making the game too hard. Most people who have commented on it seem to like it. <i>Maybe the real fix is to make the random lowlife encounters in town a bit more difficult</i>, more like the boardings, where your opponents are based on your character level.

Hook
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That would be the ticket <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Or this:

"maybe the idea behind it was to better enable your officers to survive? if so then thats ok - we just need to make it so the player cant choose it or uses a different version?"

Or a version thereof?

Cheers for that code snippet Jonathon - i'll look at that and maybe play a bit with it, your example sounds much better from the land-based encounters point of view <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

I dont board often(read mostly never!), so that might be why its seemingly over-powering to me. In all my combat encounters on land i cant die(even 3/4 vs just myself!) - i can stand their sword sheathed and laugh as they hack pitifully at me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> Thats at any level up 7/8 on the journeyman difficulty level, with no armour.

At level 9 i notice i start to meet better equiped enemy and a few of them can start to make a dent in my skin, but i can still take alot of 'un-natural' punishment.
 
I think most instances of people complaining about how parts of the game appear to be unbalanced are because they haven't run across some part of the game where the balance is shifted in the other direction.

For example, if you never do a boarding you might think toughness is way over powered. If you want a real thrill, do a boarding at difficulty level 3 with the old version of the boarding code, and face opponents with over 1200 hit points each. Not only that, but your character's hit points could be adjusted *downward* as well. In such a situation, toughness is way underpowered. The current boarding code is challenging without being too hard or too easy.

Seems like almost everyone complains about how easy it is to make money in the game. Many attempts have been made to limit this. But try to raise your reputation by donating money to the church and see just how little effect 1,000,000 has on the process. Even 10,000,000 is only marginally helpful if your reputation is at the lowest point. While you're at it, check your fame, the "known as" on the relations screen. What's the highest you've ever seen in your game? You raise your fame by changing from paying your crew salary to dividing the loot instead. The money you get from this goes into your personal wealth, and that increases your fame. Again, a million doesn't go very far, and 10 million won't get you as much increase in fame as you'd think. Of course getting married or having mistresses will give your fame a major boost, but try doing it on money alone.

My advice is, before people go making changes that affect game balance, make sure you've played enough different parts of the game so you know what the overall balance really is. Instead of saying, "The game is broken because toughness (for example) is way overpowered," ask, "Is there some reason toughness is so powerful?" Same with money, same with cannon damage, same with reputation changes, same with everything in the game.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=173257:date=Nov 24 2006, 03:49 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Nov 24 2006, 03:49 PM) [snapback]173257[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think most instances of people complaining about how parts of the game appear to be unbalanced are because they haven't run across some part of the game where the balance is shifted in the other direction.

For example, if you never do a boarding you might think toughness is way over powered. If you want a real thrill, do a boarding at difficulty level 3 with the old version of the boarding code, and face opponents with over 1200 hit points each. Not only that, but your character's hit points could be adjusted *downward* as well. In such a situation, toughness is way underpowered. The current boarding code is challenging without being too hard or too easy.

...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> Right-on!

It was well known, that land melee is easier than boarding melee.
I guess we have to keep reminding people. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=173230:date=Nov 25 2006, 06:30 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Nov 25 2006, 06:30 AM) [snapback]173230[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
That's EIGHT times, not EIGHTY. Look at all the rest of the code as well and you'll see what I mean.

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Nope, I think I stand by my 80 times.
dlthp = 0.1, so you heal at "0.1 * time" for non-toughness people, and "8 * time" for those with toughness, an 80 fold difference.

I'm looking at putting in some code to give diminishing returns on gold and xp at higher level. Once you get to level 30+ you start to go up levels really fast, one or two levels per boarding. I'd prefer to see leveling up getting harder as you get to higher levels, not easier.

I'd also often get half a million gold per ship I captured as well, so I'll look at making that level off at around 50k or so. I'll make it optional so those who like swimming around in gold can do so. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
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