Can it top POTC?

DJ1 · Oct 28, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'>
If what you want is a tactical, realistic, gritty, 100% enivronmentaly interactive pirate simulation, then certainly the newest Pirates! offering is not for you. If you are looking for a swashbuckling, Piratey adventure game with an open ended play style and great replay value (not to mention a polished interface and what will be called a "complete" game, both of which I think everyone will admit that POTC was not in it's original version), then I totally suggest Sid's new Pirates! Just understand what it is you are looking for, and what it is that SMPirates! is.[/quote]

I am so tired of this comment.

Each time you come with ideas how to improve Pirates someone says:

"If you want that kind of things then Pirates is not a game for you"

I love pirates and I bet that the others that have critisized SMP here love pirates as well. We just come with ideas how to make the game even better in the future.

I also wonder why so many people here are so pretecting towards the gamedevelopers. When they released original pirates that was the perfect way to do pirates according to these people. Now suddenly SMP is the perfect way to do the pirates idea. If Firaxis would choose to not include the dancing and I came with a suggestion that they should test a dancegame in Pirates then someone for sure would say:

"If thats what you like then you should play Britney Spears dancing game. Pirates is nothing for you."

Are you allowed to come make any suggestions that isnt a part of original pirates?

ubik · Oct 28, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DJ1)</div><div class='quotemain'>

I am so tired of this comment.

Each time you come with ideas how to improve Pirates someone says:

"If you want that kind of things then Pirates is not a game for you"

I love pirates and I bet that the others that have critisized SMP here love pirates as well. We just come with ideas how to make the game even better in the future.

I also wonder why so many people here are so pretecting towards the gamedevelopers. When they released original pirates that was the perfect way to do pirates according to these people. Now suddenly SMP is the perfect way to do the pirates idea. If Firaxis would choose to not include the dancing and I came with a suggestion that they should test a dancegame in Pirates then someone for sure would say:

"If thats what you like then you should play Britney Spears dancing game. Pirates is nothing for you."

Are you allowed to come make any suggestions that isnt a part of original pirates?[/quote]

There is a problem of feasability to consider here... Do you think it is just having a nice idea and suddenly "Morrowind goes Pirates!" happens out of the blue? Will Fireaxis be able to provide everything and still pull huge revenues in the end? don't think so... something of the magnitude you mention would increase the development cicle at least a year... Also, form a game design standpoint, it would be debatable if a game with a strategic, romantic approach about piracy would gain something going first person...

In my opinion it would be a lack of focus and waste of resources.

CatalinaThePirate · Oct 28, 2004

Yes, the reason the comment about "it might not be for you" is happening these days is that the game is just a few short weeks from release. A suggestion of that magnitude, as ubik suggests, if seriously implemented, would definitely set back the game release.

Some might argue, well, we've been waiting seventeen years, we can wait a little longer, but if Firaxis was to make every change suggested, the game might NEVER be released at all...

I think Firaxis takes every suggestion seriously - and has been paying close attention to what the fans have to say. They certainly were paying close attention to what the betatesters had to say - and they were sincerely interested in wanting to know what our OPINIONS were as well as any suggestions we might make.

They've ALSO been reading forums like this for quite a long time, paying attention to what people have had to say about Pirates! I think they've done an admirable job `re-creating` and updating a wonderful old game... If I've seen any complaints about it, it's basically been the "comparison" type complaints. It won't do this, you can't do that...

<i>Pirates!</i> can't possibly be all things to all people, but I think if you're not satisfied with what it is, then there's a good reason to learn to design your own game. I'm SURE a lot of current game developers out there now once had a very strong desire to make the game of their dreams... It's probably a journey of immense frustration at times (try modding! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> ) but I would imagine it's quite rewarding at the end when you finally DO get the game of your dreams published... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

DJ1 · Oct 28, 2004

I am aware of that nothing we say here will effect the game.

We are just discussing.

What Firaxis has recources to do is another thing. I thought we discussed what the perfect Pirate game would be like and not the perfect game that Firaxis can afford to do with its recources at this date.

Cap'n Toast · Oct 29, 2004

Sorry you are tired of the comment. Nothing personal, but I am sick of people wanting Pirates! to be something that it's not. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a totally immersive, pirate simulation (hell, with multiplayer capability as well!) that is more historically accurate and realistic.

Firaxis certainly has the resources to do a more realistic sim like what you suggest. And they no doubt have the capability. But the simple fact is that it's not what they were trying to do with this game. Maybe at some point, we will get our wish. I certainly hope so. I'd like to see that period of history explored more by game designers than it has been already. I think we have a good start with the likes of Cutthroats, POTC, Seadogs etc... SMPirates! is not that game. SMPirates! is still a wonderful game and it's in keeping with the proudest traditions of the original, which is precisely what they set out to do. Ar at least I have to assume that's what they were doing, as they hit the nail on the head. If a realistic, historically accurate buccaneer simulation is what they were after, then I think they failed. If that's the case, then it's best "failure" I have ever seen!

I truly hope that you like the game once it's released. I hope you'll enjoy it for what it is and what it was designed to be. I also hope that people continue to express an interest in a more "realistic" simulation that covers that era... so that perhaps a development team will get funding to move ahead with something like that.

Nope, SMPirates! is NOT the "perfect way to do the pirates idea". But is IS the perfect way to do a Pirates! sequel. If they did it any other way, it might still be a great game, but it would not be a Pirates! sequel.

DJ1 · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry you are tired of the comment. Nothing personal, but I am sick of people wanting Pirates! to be something that it's not. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a totally immersive, pirate simulation (hell, with multiplayer capability as well!) that is more historically accurate and realistic.

Firaxis certainly has the resources to do a more realistic sim like what you suggest. And they no doubt have the capability. But the simple fact is that it's not what they were trying to do with this game. Maybe at some point, we will get our wish. I certainly hope so. I'd like to see that period of history explored more by game designers than it has been already. I think we have a good start with the likes of Cutthroats, POTC, Seadogs etc... SMPirates! is not that game. SMPirates! is still a wonderful game and it's in keeping with the proudest traditions of the original, which is precisely what they set out to do. Ar at least I have to assume that's what they were doing, as they hit the nail on the head. If a realistic, historically accurate buccaneer simulation is what they were after, then I think they failed. If that's the case, then it's best "failure" I have ever seen!

I truly hope that you like the game once it's released. I hope you'll enjoy it for what it is and what it was designed to be. I also hope that people continue to express an interest in a more "realistic" simulation that covers that era... so that perhaps a development team will get funding to move ahead with something like that.

Nope, SMPirates! is NOT the "perfect way to do the pirates idea". But is IS the perfect way to do a Pirates! sequel. If they did it any other way, it might still be a great game, but it would not be a Pirates! sequel.[/quote]

It is impossible to make a perfect game! It can always be done better and can always be improved. What I and others have suggested wont change the Pirates concept. I basically just want more minigames included in it. that's all. Isnt SMP pirates anymore cause they included dancing? The answer is no according to me.

I can say that basically all gameplay things they have added in SMP compared to the original sounds very intresting and I am very happy that they developed the game idea. However you obviously can go further with the idea and include more fun minigames.

but it is difficult to discuss with people who think that they allready have the perfect 'pirates' game. Maybe 3 years from now when next sequel is released then that game will be a better game than this version just like this version is better than the original.

I am pretty sure that I will like this game just as much as you do Cap'n'Coast and the others who claim that this is the perfect Pirates sequel. The difference is that I believe that they can continue the development and make even better sequels in the future. How can SMP be perfect? Have anything been perfect ever?

ubik · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DJ1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry you are tired of the comment. Nothing personal, but I am sick of people wanting Pirates! to be something that it's not. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a totally immersive, pirate simulation (hell, with multiplayer capability as well!) that is more historically accurate and realistic.

Firaxis certainly has the resources to do a more realistic sim like what you suggest. And they no doubt have the capability. But the simple fact is that it's not what they were trying to do with this game. Maybe at some point, we will get our wish. I certainly hope so. I'd like to see that period of history explored more by game designers than it has been already. I think we have a good start with the likes of Cutthroats, POTC, Seadogs etc... SMPirates! is not that game. SMPirates! is still a wonderful game and it's in keeping with the proudest traditions of the original, which is precisely what they set out to do. Ar at least I have to assume that's what they were doing, as they hit the nail on the head. If a realistic, historically accurate buccaneer simulation is what they were after, then I think they failed. If that's the case, then it's best "failure" I have ever seen!

I truly hope that you like the game once it's released. I hope you'll enjoy it for what it is and what it was designed to be. I also hope that people continue to express an interest in a more "realistic" simulation that covers that era... so that perhaps a development team will get funding to move ahead with something like that.

Nope, SMPirates! is NOT the "perfect way to do the pirates idea". But is IS the perfect way to do a Pirates! sequel. If they did it any other way, it might still be a great game, but it would not be a Pirates! sequel.[/quote]

It is impossible to make a perfect game! It can always be done better and can always be improved. What I and others have suggested wont change the Pirates concept. I basically just want more minigames included in it. that's all. Isnt SMP pirates anymore cause they included dancing? The answer is no according to me.

I can say that basically all gameplay things they have added in SMP compared to the original sounds very intresting and I am very happy that they developed the game idea. However you obviously can go further with the idea and include more fun minigames.

but it is difficult to discuss with people who think that they allready have the perfect 'pirates' game. Maybe 3 years from now when next sequel is released then that game will be a better game than this version just like this version is better than the original.

I am pretty sure that I will like this game just as much as you do Cap'n'Coast and the others who claim that this is the perfect Pirates sequel. The difference is that I believe that they can continue the development and make even better sequels in the future. How can SMP be perfect? Have anything been perfect ever?[/quote]

if you are talking about future developments for a Pirates game, in my humble opinion, going first person is definitely on the bottom of my wish list. Much more important is the inclusion of more realistic elements, more areas to explore (you know in the East Indies, piracy was at the same level as in the Caribbean? You know in Africa and Brazil and Mediterranean things were not that much different?), more missions, in sum more depth translated to options aboput what to do... ah! and please get rid of those awful cartoonish graphics!

DJ1 · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ubik)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DJ1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry you are tired of the comment. Nothing personal, but I am sick of people wanting Pirates! to be something that it's not. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a totally immersive, pirate simulation (hell, with multiplayer capability as well!) that is more historically accurate and realistic.

Firaxis certainly has the resources to do a more realistic sim like what you suggest. And they no doubt have the capability. But the simple fact is that it's not what they were trying to do with this game. Maybe at some point, we will get our wish. I certainly hope so. I'd like to see that period of history explored more by game designers than it has been already. I think we have a good start with the likes of Cutthroats, POTC, Seadogs etc... SMPirates! is not that game. SMPirates! is still a wonderful game and it's in keeping with the proudest traditions of the original, which is precisely what they set out to do. Ar at least I have to assume that's what they were doing, as they hit the nail on the head. If a realistic, historically accurate buccaneer simulation is what they were after, then I think they failed. If that's the case, then it's best "failure" I have ever seen!

I truly hope that you like the game once it's released. I hope you'll enjoy it for what it is and what it was designed to be. I also hope that people continue to express an interest in a more "realistic" simulation that covers that era... so that perhaps a development team will get funding to move ahead with something like that.

Nope, SMPirates! is NOT the "perfect way to do the pirates idea". But is IS the perfect way to do a Pirates! sequel. If they did it any other way, it might still be a great game, but it would not be a Pirates! sequel.[/quote]

It is impossible to make a perfect game! It can always be done better and can always be improved. What I and others have suggested wont change the Pirates concept. I basically just want more minigames included in it. that's all. Isnt SMP pirates anymore cause they included dancing? The answer is no according to me.

I can say that basically all gameplay things they have added in SMP compared to the original sounds very intresting and I am very happy that they developed the game idea. However you obviously can go further with the idea and include more fun minigames.

but it is difficult to discuss with people who think that they allready have the perfect 'pirates' game. Maybe 3 years from now when next sequel is released then that game will be a better game than this version just like this version is better than the original.

I am pretty sure that I will like this game just as much as you do Cap'n'Coast and the others who claim that this is the perfect Pirates sequel. The difference is that I believe that they can continue the development and make even better sequels in the future. How can SMP be perfect? Have anything been perfect ever?[/quote]

if you are talking about future developments for a Pirates game, in my humble opinion, going first person is definitely on the bottom of my wish list. Much more important is the inclusion of more realistic elements, more areas to explore (you know in the East Indies, piracy was at the same level as in the Caribbean? You know in Africa and Brazil and Mediterranean things were not that much different?), more missions, in sum more depth translated to options aboput what to do... ah! and please get rid of those awful cartoonish graphics![/quote]

There are many things that would be nice to have in the game. First person perspective was actually used in the original when you met different people in the town. I think the best way to do it is to make so people can choose for them selves. Just like Firaxis has done with the sailing in SMP. Those who want a topdown view can choose that and those who want a third person (third ship) perspective can choose that. You also can zoom in and out as you want.

I think all your suggestions sounds very good.

Mack the Knife · Oct 29, 2004

does everyone really need to quote <b>all</b> of what was <b>just said</b> in the post above them? i'm scrolling more than i'm reading... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />

Unmerciful Bastard · Oct 29, 2004

Maybe is beter 2 <b>wait and play </b>SMP!, and then make some suggestions on improveing it ? (..? Maybe it would be easier ?..)

Cap'n Toast · Oct 29, 2004

Okay, I think we are both saying the same thing here DJ1. I want more from a pirates game at some point than what SMPirates! is. I just never expected SMPirates! to fill that role.

There are plenty of areas that SMPIrates! could have been improved upon or enhanced. We had some fantastic ideas and suggestion threads on the beta boards. There was some good stuff in there for sure. And I am sure that SMPirates! will not be all things to all people (I guess myself included). But I really do think it's a great remake of the classic game.

It's very easy (and sometimes quite fun) to sit back and think about how you could make a game better. And like you said, you can't make a perfect game.

And ubik, I agree about the first person thing. Not real high on my list. More fluid economy/colony building functions would be cool. The ability to ally with other pirate fleets would great. More extensive ship design/combat would be nice. And perhaps more areas as you mentioned. I'd like to be able to get to the Pacific coast (the Great South Sea) of south/central America too. As far as the graphics, while I love the graphics in SMPirates! - but I think a more realistic game needs less stylistic graphics. So while I like them for the SMPirates! concept, I would prefer something a bit more serious for a more serious game.

ubik · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'>

And ubik, I agree about the first person thing. Not real high on my list. More fluid economy/colony building functions would be cool. The ability to ally with other pirate fleets would great. More extensive ship design/combat would be nice. And perhaps more areas as you mentioned. I'd like to be able to get to the Pacific coast (the Great South Sea) of south/central America too. As far as the graphics, while I love the graphics in SMPirates! - but I think a more realistic game needs less stylistic graphics. So while I like them for the SMPirates! concept, I would prefer something a bit more serious for a more serious game.[/quote]

Your sugestions are all on top of my wish list!

Just some notes:
The Great South sea was an era poorly settled by then, and only by one (two if you consider southern Brazil) nation. That takes out the hidden dinamic of any pirate game to date (I mean different colonial powers trying to control each other).

The graphics of the new Pirates! are far more cartoonish than the first version. Remember 17 years ago graphic capabilities were far, far lower than todays... There was a clear choice in dumbing down the graphic element of the game...

The dance sequence remembers me about a disney film (I guess it was Beauty & the Beast) too much... The time spent doing the dancing minigame could be better spend doing something else much more in context with a pirate game.

The ability to extensive mod the game should be implemented (to definitely turn Catalina insane!).

@DJ1

Well, technically some static images ARE NOT first person perspective... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

CatalinaThePirate · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ubik)</div><div class='quotemain'>The ability to extensive mod the game should be implemented (to definitely turn Catalina insane!).[/quote] <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> <b><i>TURN</i></b> me insane? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Too late, Ubik, I'm already there! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

I should think we'll be allowed to make more missions & quests, that would be very cool... I wonder... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

rschissler · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The ability to extensive mod the game should be implemented (to definitely turn Catalina insane!). </div>
Maybe somebody could make a dancing mod. The ability to wear really fancy costumes while dancing, as well as being able to learn more engaging dancing manouvers.

DJ1 · Oct 29, 2004

Nice to see some laughs. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I am sorry if I had negative effect on the atmosphere.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />

ubik · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'>

I should think we'll be allowed to make more missions & quests, that would be very cool... I wonder... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />[/quote]

Yessss, yessss, yesssssssssss

ubik · Oct 29, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ubik)</div><div class='quotemain'>The ability to extensive mod the game should be implemented (to definitely turn Catalina insane!).[/quote] <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> <b><i>TURN</i></b> me insane? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Too late, Ubik, I'm already there! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

:[/quote]

Oh! you already crossed the line? Don't worry, while you keep seeing it you are not a lost case... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

Fred Bob · Oct 30, 2004

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'>... I should think we'll be allowed to make more missions & quests, that would be very cool... I wonder... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />[/quote]Say, Cat, has ye `eye-balled` de game folders an' de file structure an' de file demselves tew ses if'n thar be any moddable files, lass? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

CatalinaThePirate · Oct 30, 2004

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> I'm sorry, but I can't really say, Fred Bob. I think there are, but for the moment I've uninstalled the Pirates! Beta because I have had my head into trying to get our PotC Modding Community Build 12 released. So I can't answer for certain at this point.

Besides, remember that I am no coding genius <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> I barely understand whatintheheck I'm doing in modding PotC. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

DrBillyG · Nov 7, 2004

HMMMMM I played pirates the commodore 64 and on pc's latter pirates gold had some minor changes i have played computer games since the apple 48k Pirates was one of the best games ever sid does a great job on game Gettysburg was a great game i played online for years.I believe sid will do a good job on this remake.I have played Pirates Bucaneer seadoges port royale pirate hunter POTC and im curently playing Port Royale2 I bet Pirates 2 will give many months of replay unlike the 2 weeks i got from POTC
The Doc

Can it top POTC?

Master Mariner

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Unholy Terror,

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Freebooter

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Master Mariner

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Powder Monkey

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