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Cutlass, rapier, etc...

N

Nefarious

Landlubber
Greetings, all. I'm new here, but not new to Pirate!. I bought a Tandy 1000EX back in 1987 specifically for the purpose of being able to play the original...hooked ever since. The original is also the source of my username/follows me to every forum. (Capt. Nefarious just had a nice ring to it)

Question: Will the graphics change as you change swords? I'd hate for my first post to sound whiny, but the swords displayed in most screenshots seem awfully large/borderline cartoonish. I hope this can be addressed. Any thoughts or answers? Thanks.
BTW, nice site; I think I'll like it here.
 
Hello and welcome. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

I do not think they will change the "cartooned" graphics, but I also think that if you are able to see the change in coats/hats/boots, you'll also be able to see a change in swords. That said, it is just an assumption as I have not really paid attention to the swords.

Either way, it is not a big deal to me.
 
I don't see why they wouldn't it wouldn't take much coding or time in the graphics department to make the swords differant. Welcome to the group, let me be the first to give you a big GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
There should be different swords, naturally. I always preferred Rapier in the original because it was so fast in comparison to the heavier blades, even if you had to hit the opponent a few more times...
 
Nah, the rapier was good enough for duels, but in any serious fight, the longsword came right handy. It had the best balance between range and damage. Using the rapier, my pinace crew would have been slaughtered while I tried sticking the Galleon Captain, With a longsword it takes a few slashes and some thrusts and you´ve won.
I hope they keep the choice of weapons, though.
 
Hey, weird, we've only seen Cutlass' in the screenshots so far. Just checked out `20-odd` screenshots and no rapiers or anything else. Pity if they kill that option, I liked the rapier too.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Falconer`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Falconer)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey, weird, we've only seen Cutlass' in the screenshots so far. Just checked out `20-odd` screenshots and no rapiers or anything else. Pity if they kill that option, I liked the rapier too.[/quote]

Don`t forget the Longsword! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
One more thing about the swords: There should not only be different kinds of swords, but the movements of the fighters should depend on the weapon that they are holding.

Cutlass - slashes, perhaps even as wild as in the previews, although that kind of fighters would probably die the first (conpletely open to counter attack)

Longsword - more guarded swordplay. The heavier blade would be even slower to recover from a wild swing than a cutlass

Rapier - mostly thrusts (single step forward, arm straight) with few slashes. Lunges (half a step forward, followed by a long step and extended arm) should not really be possible (they were invented rather late (in the 18th century, IIRC) when rapiers became "thrust only" swords -> smallswords)
 
Someone mentioned that there were subtle differences in the original Pirates! Gold, but I must admit, I never noticed. Could be because I was just too damn busy to batter my keys though. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
"Subtle" is about right! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> It does make a major difference whether you take a rapier or a cutlass. With a rapier, a fight lasts quite a while, whereas a cutlass is ideal to finish it as fast as possible, a few slashes, that´s it. On the other hand, enemies use cutlasses as well, making fights a dangerous business. As I stated, I prefer the longsword most of the time, for the cutlass is too short and the rapier doesn´t do enough damage.
 
The original game had small differences, true. I just hope that the remake takes the choices into account a bit more throughly as it comes to using them (I doubt it, though).

I hereby quote myself from another forum to describe the differences more throughly (I apologise for repetition for those who have already read this):

<b>Rapiers</b> of the 16th and 17th century were rather a lot heavier than modern foils. The blades were about 2 - 2.5 inches wide at the base and their length varied between 3.5 - 5 feet (quite a lot of variation, there, I admit). Some swordsmasters recommended that the blade (without the guard, handle and pommel) should be long enough to reach from the swordsman's navel to the ground between his feet (when he is standing legs slightly apart and holding the sword point down in front of him) while others said that the whole weapon should reach to the fighter's armpit when held in the same manner. Those who held the latter view were naturally city duellists who wanted to keep their enemy at a distance, while those who recommended the shorter sword used it in more varied circumstances. It is these shorter rapiers that would probably be used by sailors, if they were at all (easier to use in cramped surroundings).

These early rapiers usually had sharp edges and enough weight to do some damage with slashes (not as much as sabres or other heavier blades, naturally). The effectiveness of the blade came from the point, as it could easily slip between ribs and puncture internal organs.

<b>Sabres and cutlasses</b> were heavier, curved blades, which were meant mainly for slashes. A slash wound is usually rather shallow (compared to a puncture) and is less likely to kill (as such). When slashing the torso area, the ribs often protect the body from the worst damage. However, slash wounds cause a lot more bleeding than puncture wounds and are likely to unnerve the suffering participant and cause loss of strength due to bloodloss.

Ok, I could go on forever (especially if I had my source references handy), but I'll stop here. Both weapons have their good points and the situation of use (and the preferences of the fighter) determine which one would be better used. Of course, you usually did not carry a selection of swords around to choose from just in case you got into a fight.
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />
 
Interesting reading <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> It looks like the longsword from Pirates! falls into the category of a rapier by this definition (the shorter version)
 
Yeah, the width of the blade is rather `all-enveloping`, isn't it? I cannot really remember which source gave that data, but I've read others in which the blade should be between 1.5 and 2 inches. There are differences however, which I'll try to explain here:

1. The main difference between rapiers and longswords is in the design, however. Rapiers have blades that get narrower as you get closer to the point, while longsword blades stay rather wide all the way until the tip of the blade where it gets pointy rather quickly. Ok, I don't know how well that describes it, but let me try some ASCII art here:

Rapier:

----------------
=============------------------------
----------------

Longsword:

----------------------------------
===========================--------
----------------------------------

2. The other difference is the handle. Longswords usually have only the crossguard (or quillions) to protect the hand, and they are rather short. In rapiers, however, the quillions are long, almost ridicilously so in some instances. The (short) handles also include finger guards (in front of the quillions) and knuckle guards. Later, rapier handles became `so-called` swept hilt designs and even later `so-called` `cup-hits` appeared.

3. The way you hold the blade in your hand is very different. You hold the longsword as if it was a broadsword, which is almost like you were holding an axe (fist grip). When you hold a rapier, you have at least your forefinger crossing over the quillions - sometimes both forefinger and middle finger. In the case of a single finger crossing the quillions, it is places underneath the blade to support your grip. The fingerguard is then only on that side of the blade. In the case of the `two-finger` crossing, your index finger is on top of the blade and middle finger is under the blade.

4. The way you use it. Longswords are mainly hacking weapons and only a slight development from broadswords. You could hit the opponent with the edge up to the very end of the blade without fearing that it would break. Rapiers, with the grip I just described, are more 'finesse' weapons -> you get more exact control over the point of the blade with a grip like that. and it works better for thrusting. You could only use the edge for the first third of the blade for hacking - if you used the point section, the blade would easily break.

In my sig you see a small picture of a rapier typical to the 16th century and early 17th century. The handle has a simple knuckle guard and there is a finger guard in front of the quillions. The blade is rather short (too short for many later swordsmasters). In the pic the blade appears perhaps a hair too thin for the period (I blame the resizing).
 
Oh, the weapon in your sig is not supposed to be balanced by that guy in the background? Then it seems to be of the usual length to me, but then again, I´m not an expert and never got my hands one of these things.

By the way: the comments of the beta testers didn´t say anything about choosing your weapon, did they? So that´s stil something of an open question...
 
Here's how it plays out gentleman:

You start off with a regular cutlass.
There is no choice between weapons like how when you would get into a fight. There are mysterious men in the towns and settlements that carry unusual items (balanced rapier, longsword, cutlass) that will make your moves faster.

Also, if you are a good `shin-dig`, er, I mean dancer and schmoozer with the Governor's Daughter, she offers you a give as well. I received a metal cuirass and a balanced rapier after doing a couple dances with the lass. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> Thanks a bunch for the info.
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> I'm such a klutz at dancing! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

I have had to rely upon those mysterious strangers to get my extra gear... Good thing there's lots to plunder! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
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