Cutter (wip)

[Coen]

Hi,

I'm Coen, this is my first thread but i have been snooping around this forums for quite some time now. I've been learning Maya 2012 for about a year now and I finally felt like I could try a ship.

I'm not really creating this Cutter with the intention of putting it into the game. I have no experience with programming at all. If however someone wants to help me with it, then that would be great. However I created this thread to gain advice from more experienced ship modellers.

If this thread is purely for Storm Engine projects, and my thread therefore inappropriate, let me say sorry in advance.

Ok I just started so not that much to see.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Great work so far! just a few questions: is she meant to have a square-tuck stern? and will the bulwarks be higher or will gunports be cut into the ones at the current level? what plans are you using? great to see another ship modeler starting out

 

[Post Captain]

The stern does look a bit xebec-ish... You wouldn't have seen that form on any kind of cutter I've heard of. I look forward to seeing this when it's all done. We've been needing a new cutter for awhile now.

 

[KrisWood]

My guess is it's a Chapman cutter with a round tuck and either no stern chasers, or will have higher bulwarks, more likely the former. Am I right?

 

[Coen]

Hi guys,
thanks for interest in my little project. As for what ship-type it is, I am following the build plans for HMS Cheerful I found on this forum. Although I was not planning on actually calling it the HMS Cheerful, more like a unknown Cutter. That way I can afford some minor inconsistencies on my first ship project. Also, I think it would be nice to have some more regular ships who have little to no history. I'm planning on making it look quite old and shabby. As if her glory days have passed a very, very long time ago.

As for your questions. I'll let the pictures speak for them self.

Anyway here's an update:


View attachment 8846

I'm not quite sure about the stern. It looks different in the plans but I'm not quite sure how it's supposed to look like in 3D. I'll need to research that for a bit.

 

[Coen]

Also, according to the plans the bulwarks have a 'railing' (not to sure about that word) but to create it it will use polygons like mad.
Also, there are 3 edges on the bulwarks of which i have two now. The last edge which ends at every gunport is also a polygon-eater.

Example:

How do you guys suggest i take this on? create it or not?
I'm not sure how strict you guys are on following the plans for the sake of authenticity. If I'm making this for the Storm Engine I have to watch my polycount. Speaking of which, what do you guys suggest should be my maximum amount of polygons?

 

[Post Captain]

I'm all for accuracy, but then again, I am one of the people who advises on accuracy. Captain Armstrong could probably show you an example of the proper stern type, but it should be alright as long as you follow the plans.

There are plenty of resources indicating that many cutters didn't have a rail, so you can get rid of it if you want to avoid driving the poly count up. As long as you follow the plan it should turn out great in the end. I say absolutely, go for it. This is a vessel we've been needing for quite some time now.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Glad to see someone using my plans!the Cheerful is an excellent choice by the way. a good, relatively simple ship to get the hang of ship building with, but good looking enough to be rewarding, and also a class that we could do with another model for. she is a quintessential naval cutter, and we could have many different paint schemes for her for different nationalities. looking at the plans it would appear that the cheerful had a square-tuck stern after all, but someone else should double check that. I'll see if it mentions anything about it where I got the plans from. I would advise against the railing, because it would require you to redo the bulwarks and it probably was planked in for much of the ship's career anyways. it is odd that a vessel from as late as 1806 has open rails anyways. I tend to allow myself to deviate from plans when it is within the realm of historical possibility to do so. For example I built up the bulwarks of the Revolutionnaire and straghtened her sheer (the curve of her decks for and aft) to be the same as the HMS Forte, an english ship based off of the Revolutionnaire. I do actually have a sailplan for the Cheerful which I can scan and upload for you. it shows closed bulwarks without the rails, too. it's spread across two pages so it might be difficult to get a great scan, but it will be much bettter than nothing. as for polycount, larger ships should be kept under 100,000 triangles but a cutter should take about 50,000 or maybe a bit more. keep in mind that you need to allow for the rig in your polycount, which usually takes up 1/3 to 1/2 of it. Really nice work so far, by the way.

EDIT: here is the sailplan!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43901618/CArmstrong/Plans/unrated ships/cheerful 003.jpg

 

[Post Captain]

Keep in mind that the way you have the hull oriented now won't be the way it will be sitting in the water. That fact will be important when you're doing the rigging. I'd suggest forgoing the running course (lowest squares'l) and the two stuns'ls (the protruding squares'ls cominig out of the tops'l (see parts of a ship thread).

 

[Coen]

Post Captain, Captain Armstrong... i love you guys

I suspected as much that the rigging is indeed going to be a pain in my you-know-what. However with your tips and tricks I am much more confidant now.

I had not anticipated that the maximum poly-count was going to be that high though. I'm currently at 1936 Tri's
Truth be told I do not have my guns yet, and the rigging which according to you guys is going to take up a LOT.

Sorry for saying so but I did not understand a single thing about your last comment Post Captain. If read through your 'Parts of a Ship' threadhowever I'm afraid i still don't understand.

PS: nice to know that a Cutter is in such high demand.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

glad to have another modeler around! 1936 tri's isn't bad at all! I can post some basic standard parts for you to make it easier (deadeyes, cannons, ship's wheel etc) though they should be added once you have it in maya 5.0( neccessary for porting ships ingame) so the UV maps carry over. deck details, gratings, chains and chainplates, and especially cannons all add quite a bit to the tri count. Essentially post captain said that you don't need to include the bottom, largest,squaresail shown in the sailplan I posted. or the studdingsails(shown sticking out to each side of the second squaresail up) but that bridge can be crossed much later.

 

[Coen]

Only Maya 5.0 or anything above it? I have Maya 2012 Student Version. I appreciate the offer about the ship-parts, I really do, but I want to see if I can make a ship from scratch.

Also thanks for the explanation from Post Captain's post.

 

[Armada]

Maya 5.0 is required to export a model to the game's native format (GM), because the GM Export plug-in doesn't work with any other versions.
The plug-in and Maya 5.0 are what Akella used when making POTC, and a few years ago they provided us with both for free.
For now though, you're definitely better off using Maya 2012. I recently got the Student Version and find it so much more efficient than Maya 5.0.

I have to say, I like your current progress. She's shaping up nicely.
When your ship is finished, and if you would like her featured in our mods, then one of us could handle the export process for you, if you wish.
I know it's a bit soon, but it would be preferable if you could use some of our existing textures in that case. Adding new models is great, but adding new textures is less desirable for mod size concerns.

Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

[Post Captain]

Only Maya 5.0 or anything above it? I have Maya 2012 Student Version. I appreciate the offer about the ship-parts, I really do, but I want to see if I can make a ship from scratch.

Also thanks for the explanation from Post Captain's post.

I would advise using some of those parts. That way you'll ensure that you get everything accurate the first time around, including the scale and exact shape of the guns. It also saves time.

 

[Coen]

Alright, yeah of course. If that's the case I'll happily take those pre-made ship-parts.

I had a, perhaps quite stupid question. Are the ropes from the ships all actual mesh? If so how do you properly UV map that?
I know I'm not in that stage yet but i just wondered.

anyway here's an update:

 

[Thagarr]

Ahoy Coen, welcome aboard mate!

That is quite a nice little boat you have there mate, I am really looking forward to seeing her in game! We have had quite a few new smaller ships added to the game lately, and personally I think that is awesome! The big, bristling 50+ gun ships are great, and they sure are crowd pleasers. But in my opinion, these little boats really add quite a bit more authenticity to the game.

Yeah, the Maya 5.0 GM plugin has frustrated many moddelers over the years, it makes character and location creation a bit of a pain too. That limitation should however should not be a problem with our new project!

 

[Captain Armstrong]

looks like you have the hang of this quite well Coen! a few minor things; you may want to extrude the 2 rows of polygons below the gunports, this forms a protective rubbing strip to protect against quays and the like.
some examples:
http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Science_Museum_London/Ship_model_naval_cutter.htm
http://www.julianstockwin.com/images/KC_Seaflower.jpg
also it isn't a big deal but you may want to use a chamfer tool to round out the chains (platform to support the shrouds) in the future so that you use fewer polygons. it doesn't matter for a ship of this size, but just for future reference.
the standing rigging (everything that doesn't move with the sails) is modeled. The running rigging (everything that moves) is done with locators.

 

[Post Captain]

If you have any rigging questions, I'd suggest asking me before I leave on the Brig Pilgrim for the next two weeks. I'm going tomorrow at about 5:00 PM PST. You can PM me if you have any questions while I'm gone. I should have cell phone reception for the first two days and then after day five or so, so I'll be checking in every once and awhile.