• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Dialogue tweaking

C

Cpt Fabris

Landlubber
I'm keen to change the dialogue encountered in the game (as much as I can) to remove the anachronisms and make the written dialogue a little more contemporaneous with the game's period by capitalising nouns, adjusting the language (as far as I can) and adding back the idiosyncratic spelling of the period using phonetic, morphemic, and shortened spelling and generally making the spelling suitably inconsistent as per the period. It'd be nice to throw in some salty expressions and terminology used by sailors at the time as well as the rich folks' speech. Limited to English sadly though.

Is editing dialogue just as easy as editing the .h files per character in the dialog directory?
Secondly is it possible to change the font used in the dialog when displayed on screen? I thought a nice calligraphic set with long s and ligatures would be nice or a Caslon type font as was used in printing from the 1720s.
 
Please don't.

Much as I respect historical accuracy, i'd like to keep the dialogues easily readable.

'nuff said.

P.S. or was this an attempt at a joke? I am thick in the evenings, might have not recognised it as such...
 
There have been some efforts made to fix the dialouge and change it in the past. On this idea I agree with Den Dee. Let's not make it either harder to read or understand.
 
I sure hope that was a joke.

1) Its damned near impossible to read piraty talk... just try reading one of Long John Silvers posts.

2) Sans serif type is the easiest to read, and since this is a game, you don't want to introduce difficult reading to children who may be playing it.

3) The only thing wrong with some of the dialog, is the poor english translations. I've been trying to clean a few up as I come across them, but alas... there are a crapload.

4) Using voluminous embellished words doth not a fun read make.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155156:date=Jul 24 2006, 05:40 PM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Jul 24 2006, 05:40 PM) [snapback]155156[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I sure hope that was a joke.

1) Its damned near impossible to read piraty talk... just try reading one of Long John Silvers posts.

2) Sans serif type is the easiest to read, and since this is a game, you don't want to introduce difficult reading to children who may be playing it.

3) The only thing wrong with some of the dialog, is the poor english translations. I've been trying to clean a few up as I come across them, but alas... there are a crapload.

4) Using voluminous embellished words doth not a fun read make.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I wasn't joking, but then neither was I suggesting any changes I made/make should be publicly available and should be used by other players. I merely wish an answer to what is a simple question.

'Piratey talk' is far from difficult to read apart from the handwriting. If you read the words aloud you will find 18th century writing is relatively easy to 'decode', although the word order is often a little different from that used today. The only difficulty arises from the use of obscure naval terminology and slang expressions, though many of these persist in current usage. It is likely easier to understand 18th century writing for those whose ability to spell in modern English (of course I refer to the Queen's English not a New World patois) is less than impressive, since those poor wretches tend to rely upon phonetics in committing their lexical misdemeanors, as did people prior to the age of the dictionary.

There are not very many pirates within the game with which the player interacts verbally. The vast majority of NPCs are common townsfolk, merchants and pongos (soldiers). I'd hardly expect the Governor of Redmond to curse as often as pirates reportedly did.

As for typeface, I do think it'd be far prettier in a typeface able to represent contemporary writing, but then a number of years ago I handed in an essay on Anglo-Saxon history rendered in a font devised from the Beowulf manuscripts. I doubt my history professor had any difficulties reading the text. My complaint is more against the tedious modern language (yes badly translated) used in the game. It's like watching these godawful modern versions of Shakespeare with the language 'improved'.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155169:date=Jul 24 2006, 12:52 PM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Jul 24 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]155169[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It is likely easier to understand 18th century writing for those whose ability to spell in modern English (of course I refer to the Queen's English not a New World patois) is less than impressive...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love being insulted. Doesn't everyone?

Is the use of the slash in "font/s" some kind of obscure Piratey usage? When I first saw it, I was a little confused. Perhaps it was a mistype of "font's" which usage seems common in online communication these days. Of course, anyone who would undertake to lecture me on my use of the English language would know that "font's" is posessive, while "fonts" is plural. I have no idea what "font/s" is.

If you wish to change thousands of lines of dialog, go for it. It will keep you busy for a very long time. But a more worthwhile project, if you wanted to change fonts, would be to change the cyrillic characters to western characters for accented letters.

EDIT: Perhaps you meant "font or fonts." The common usage for that would have been "font(s)." If you have references that state otherwise, please quote them here.

Hook
 
<!--fonto:Century Gothic--><span style="font-family:Century Gothic"><!--/fonto-->Me bucko! Have ye ever tried t' "talk like a pirate"? Ye have? Good! Now, mind ye, we be tryin' t' make a game har. Nay a historically accurate edutainment application. Meanin' we be likin' t' make it enjoyable, nay educational. Hat's note 'bout Long John Silvers posts be indeed up t' t' point. I be suggestin' ye take yar time and read his messages. Nay one, but quite a few o' them in a row. See if ya get a headache. If not, fine. Most o' us do though

For more o't' stuff, see

<a href="http://adactio.com/extras/talklikeapirate/translate.php?filename=http%3A%2F%2Fadactio.com%2Fjournal%2F&submit=Avast%21" target="_blank">http://adactio.com/extras/talklikeapirate/...submit=Avast%21</a>

Also, I be suggestin' as a good read, <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7598" target="_blank">http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7598</a>

Another good read be <a href="http://www.withfriendship.com/jokes/english/euro-englisn.php" target="_blank">http://www.withfriendship.com/jokes/english/euro-englisn.php</a>

But... By all means, if ye be feelin' ye like it, feel free t' make a mod. It be easy t' locate t' dialogues within t' file structure. Just write down t' dialogue ye feel like changin', and do a search for t' file containin' that phrase in yer filesystem. Then do whatever ye be wantin' with it. Kindly leave us out of it though.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->


Sorry if I be a tad too harsh...


P.S. For those French-challenged (like myself for one), here's a babelfish translation of the original posters signature:
"God is an actor playing in front of a public too frightened to laugh"
I'll leave my comments to myself...
 
<!--quoteo(post=155170:date=Jul 24 2006, 07:18 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Jul 24 2006, 07:18 PM) [snapback]155170[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I love being insulted. Doesn't everyone?

Is the use of the slash in "font/s" some kind of obscure Piratey usage? When I first saw it, I was a little confused. Perhaps it was a mistype of "font's" which usage seems common in online communication these days. Of course, anyone who would undertake to lecture me on my use of the English language would know that "font's" is posessive, while "fonts" is plural. I have no idea what "font/s" is.

If you wish to change thousands of lines of dialog, go for it. It will keep you busy for a very long time. But a more worthwhile project, if you wanted to change fonts, would be to change the cyrillic characters to western characters for accented letters.

EDIT: Perhaps you meant "font or fonts." The common usage for that would have been "font(s)." If you have references that state otherwise, please quote them here.

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What I meant by my remark was an acknowledgment of the fact that the English used in Britain is not the same as that used in North America, Australia or New Zealand. I used 'New World' as a reference to the former colonies of Britain (including the aforementioned countries) and the Queen's English to refer to a (theoretical at best) standard form of British English. Many of the slang expressions used in 18th century survive in modern British English, but may not be present in American English. Ergo I wonder whether Brits might find some of the more colourful expressions easier to understand (to my knowledge piracy historians suggest the majority of pirates were of British descent).

I used 'font/s' because it is not apparent to me whether a single font or multiple fonts would be changed. I concede I should have used 'font(s)'. Shall I go and edit my post to your satisfaction?

I shall admit the suggestion I was joking despite the lack of any emoticons or smilies irritated me just a little.
 
Are you aware that not everyone who plays the game has English (of any variety) as a native language? If changes are made from a more standard form of English to something that will give even a native English speaker headaches, imagine what these changes will do to those who didn't learn English as a first language.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=155176:date=Jul 24 2006, 08:01 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Jul 24 2006, 08:01 PM) [snapback]155176[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Are you aware that not everyone who plays the game has English (of any variety) as a native language? If changes are made from a more standard form of English to something that will give even a native English speaker headaches, imagine what these changes will do to those who didn't learn English as a first language.

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I am well aware that many players of the game are not from English speaking countries. This would be a relevant consideration only if I intended to change dialog for all players of the game. As should be apparent from an early post, I am not intending this idea to be anything other than an interesting exercise for myself. Had I intended to suggest changing the dialog for all gamers, my question would have been whether anyone could help me change the dialog, not whether it is possible to change dialog files.
Despite suggestions that Pieter has something of an all inclusive policy towards mods in the compilation of the build and post-build collections, as one of the non-native English speakers I doubt he would even consider adding such a modification, should I even complete any changes. Indeed I would have posted the questions in a Build sub-forum had I been suggesting that the ideas should be considered for the good of all players. It is instead more of an intellectual exercise designed to satisfy my own pedantry and creative writing urges (perhaps not unlike the RPG threads in the Pirates Ahoy forum but with slightly more structure).
 
I'm sorry Cpt Fabris. We actually could add this to the game, handling it the same way we did the Russian translation.

No matter what the idea, there will be someone out there that loves it.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=155171:date=Jul 24 2006, 07:20 PM:name=Den Dee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Den Dee @ Jul 24 2006, 07:20 PM) [snapback]155171[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
But... By all means, if ye be feelin' ye like it, feel free t' make a mod. It be easy t' locate t' dialogues within t' file structure. Just write down t' dialogue ye feel like changin', and do a search for t' file containin' that phrase in yer filesystem. Then do whatever ye be wantin' with it. Kindly leave us out of it though.

Sorry if I be a tad too harsh...


P.S. For those French-challenged (like me for one), here's a babelfish translation of the original posters signature:
"God is an actor playing in front of a public too frightened to laugh"
I'll leave my comments to myself...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It is highly unlikely any changes I choose to make would be anything at all like people from the period would have spoken. The snippets of accounts featuring pirates' own words tend to come from either those already more educated than the majority of sailors, or originate in transcripts of trials where the pirates were in a sense, performing for the crowd. The accounts written by those who encountered pirates like Cpt Charles Johnson are likely to be subject to dramatic license if written for entertainment purposes or be tailored to ensure readers were suitably horrified by the cursing and blasphemy if written for official accounts by the authorities of the time. I can therefore only hope to capture some of the 'flavour' of the speech of the period.

Some links on 18th century texts, spelling and language that you might better understand what I thinking about.
<a href="http://www.dohistory.org/on_your_own/toolkit/writing.html" target="_blank">How to read 18th Century British-American Writing</a>
<a href="http://www.usgennet.org/family/smoot/oldhand/ligature.html" target="_blank">Printing page with Thomas Jefferson example</a>
<a href="http://www.lectris.com/literatis//modules.php?name=Sections&op=printpage&artid=15" target="_blank">Literatis</a>
<a href="http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/1600spelling.html#" target="_blank">1600s spelling</a>
<a href="http://avoca.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/spfree17c.htm" target="_blank">1800s spelling</a>
<a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5402" target="_blank">Captain Francis Grosse's 'Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue'</a>. This is the 1811 version, the orginal dates from 1785. A number of suitable expressions appear that would add character to dialogue.

I think your Voltaire quote translation ought to say Comedian rather than actor, but the French is rather more elegant.
 
I appreciate your effort to entertain yourself, as well as to show off your rather good language. After all, isn't this what forums are for?

To me, this issue is closed.
 
I quite understood myself ye intended to make changes to dialogs fer personal use mate, since no one really answerd yer questions. Changing dialogs is as you mentioned.As fer font size,there is a way not quite sure how,sumpth'n I'll look into when iI get home <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Scull, i beg to differ, my post contained instructions on changing the dialogue. Was kinda hard to notice, with the language and all, eh? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
he he Yeah! ,them be a lot O' long werds thar fer a humble pirate such as meself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=155197:date=Jul 24 2006, 10:32 PM:name=skull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skull @ Jul 24 2006, 10:32 PM) [snapback]155197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I quite understood myself ye intended to make changes to dialogs fer personal use mate, since no one really answerd yer questions. Changing dialogs is as you mentioned.As fer font size,there is a way not quite sure how,sumpth'n I'll look into when iI get home <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thanks matey. I'd thought my intentions were sufficiently implicit to not require explication. I just fancy swapping trite dialog lines like:

"I haven't got time to talk right now" for:

"Cease yor Prattel man, you've Tongue enuf for tweye sets of Teeth". It adds a little more character to the dialogue.
 
There are a lot of anachronisms that could be cleaned up without hurting our understanding of the dialog. And there's some dialog translated from Russian apparently by an online translator that could use some work. Do what you can with it.

I think a lot of us were worried that the dialog would end up unreadable and ununderstandable. Proper spelling, modern, not period, would help a lot though.

Hook
 
Sorry Capt.

I misunderstood. I think the example you cited is clear and would be a fun imporvement. I agree with Hook about a clear font and modern spelling.

Can't wait. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

And while you are in there can you take a look at the forms of adrress used for Natanial as he moves up the ranks.

Ex. "I was told meet someone named Commander" or "Knight, how nice to see you again".
 
Word of warning:

Keep dialogs "short and sweet". Long lines of dialog tend to break the dialog box routines. You end up with lopped off top graphics, and sometimes the innability to scroll. When people put in a paragraph just to say "No thanks.", it tends to make that bug show up a lot more than desired.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top