Dialogue tweaking

[Cpt Fabris]

<!--quoteo(post=155279:date=Jul 25 2006, 05:44 PM:name=Jason)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Jul 25 2006, 05:44 PM) [snapback]155279[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Sorry Capt.

I misunderstood. I think the example you cited is clear and would be a fun imporvement. I agree with Hook about a clear font and modern spelling.

Can't wait. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

And while you are in there can you take a look at the forms of adrress used for Natanial as he moves up the ranks.

Ex. "I was told meet someone named Commander" or "Knight, how nice to see you again".
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I think before I do anything I ought to go and play the game a little again. It's been so long since I played it I can barely remember who the characters are. I can't really do anything with dialog without first determining the character of the NPC using it (nation, economic status, plot involvement). I wasn't planning on making the dialogue incomprehensible, and especially not the areas related to crucial functions and plot.

The spellings for the most part aren't that bad, it's more the unusual structures (writers seem over keen to use semi-colons and end sentences with prepositions) and words used by the educated and the seemingly random abbreviations and nautical slang used by sailors that raises potential problems of comprehensibility. I am certainly better at writing educated NPCs dialogue than salty dogs I think.

I'll go play a little, then try changing say a single NPCs dialogue and see how it looks and maybe post a transcript here for discerning readers.

Yes it would be nice to be rid of the 'Hello Knight' rubbish. It has always irritated me immensely.

OH BTW, the font idea was from here:
<a href="http://www.orbitals.com/self/ligature/ligature.htm" target="_blank">D.Manthey</a>
Using his special Samuel Wyld Caslon font with support for long-S and 12 ligatures. It looks beautiful when used properly, but probably isn't practical for in-game use.

 

[Captain_Augast]

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> If you make changes to dialog. I would be like very much to try. I think would be adding more dynamic to game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

 

[SirChristopherMings]

I'm looking forward to reading what you come up with too! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />

Especially since you're obviously under the influence of literary works like, <b><i><u>Captain Blood</u></i></b>, but please don't overlook Shakespeare for source material either! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" /> I used a couple of Shakespearean phrases in an attempt to spice up some of the dialog in the Santos files, but I probably dropped in a few anachronisms here and there simply because I thought they were funny. (eventually we'll find out if anyone else thinks they're funny or not... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> )

It would certainly be nice if English citizens, soldiers, store owners and tavern-goers (and rumors as well,) had some better sounding phrases than the ones they got from the stock game. For example:

<i>"Our colony was built about 40 years ago. The island is pretty small, but it has very fertile soil, and there are a couple of convenient bays.\nNew sections are being developed, and trade has increased. Our city was the first settlement, and then came Greenford.",</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huhh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="k" border="0" alt="huhh.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

That's just begging for editing in my book. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> If you can change phrases like that one into something better and more period appropriate, I just might go back to talking to people in game again. Thanks for offering to do this! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

The longer dialog files can be a bit of a nuisance to deal with because the thread of the dialog can jump all over the file, but a little testing identifies any gaps and re-edits are not too difficult.

Back ups, back ups, back ups! If I've said it one time I've said it three, always back up your files! Sermon over. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/type_1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":nk" border="0" alt="type_1.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

To answer the original question:
If you change the .h files, the dialog ingame will be changed as well. You can change the dialog font by changing the texture files in RESOURCE\Textures\FONTS.

I personally like the dialogs changed for a bit to add more spice to the game. As long as they're still comprehensible, I'd love to add them into the game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

Anyway: Nobody is stopping you from doing this mod for your own personal use. And maybe we'll be able to use parts of it for the Build eventually. But don't worry, I won't add anything in that will make the game incomprehensible. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

I'll be looking forward to what you'll be working on. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[Jason]

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Cpt Fabris,

I can hardly wait to see your work!

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

 

[Cpt Fabris]

Genteelmen, as, I investigate the feasbility of this little Project, I have noted, some Elements in Common.ini (RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\ENGLISH\common.ini) that I am rather wary of.

Does anyone know what the code listed under //SWINDLER in common.ini does in the dialogue in the game? I've noted categories such as 'Forms of Address' for each country, Pronouns (3rd person ones), Time greetings, Swear (listing the curses uttered) and Ranks Names by Nation. The code takes the form of: String = abc, "abc".

Clearly it would useful to know what these do. There are plenty of juicy curses I could add (though I was impressed by 'Poxridden Doxy' which has an authentic ring to it, a doxy being a slang expression for 'whore') including the delightful 'You are a theif and a Murderer. You have killed a Baboon and stole his Face!'.
In addressing Jason's earlier point about the annoying way that the Player is often greeted as 'Knight' etc, I am interested to know how the Ranks and Forms of Address are implemented by NPCs in their dialogue. I suppose one decision is whether NPCs should in fact know your rank automatically. Ok they would know you a Tar by your rolling gait, but should they know you as a Captain, Knight etc?

Since the idea of changing dialogue is a mammoth task, I have resolved to begin by changing dialog of those characters first encountered in the game, so for example malcolm, Silehard etc first of all. This also makes it easier for me to test. Rather than wait forever until all changes are made I will put in this thread changed files (or link to where they can be obtained if wished).
One question that remains though is what character should the player have? In otherwords, should he talk like a Damber and Cove (think rascal) with recourse to rather crude language or be considered more like say Benjamin Hornigold, Stede Bonnet, William Kidd or Henry Jennings, the more educated and at one time respected and refined privateers.
Input would be appreciated.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

While you're changing Malcom Hatcher's dialog, could you make the dialog more clear as well to explain the workings of the game a bit better? It doesn't work well anymore as tutorial dialog, because so much was changed.

About common.ini: Here are positioned the strings that are used all over the game. For example the ship names. If you change these strings here, they will be changed ingame as well. The curses are used by an <insert random curse> function. You can change the curses if you like. But I would recommend not making them into entire sentences, because these curses are frequently used like "<insert random curse>, sentence here".

 

[Cpt Fabris]

<!--quoteo(post=156263:date=Aug 2 2006, 05:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 2 2006, 05:29 PM) [snapback]156263[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
While you're changing Malcom Hatcher's dialog, could you make the dialog more clear as well to explain the workings of the game a bit better? It doesn't work well anymore as tutorial dialog, because so much was changed.
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OK I'll have a go at Malcolm. I'll maybe drop the antiquated language for the tutorial though, that it be made that bit more understandable for those new to the game.

<!--quoteo(post=156263:date=Aug 2 2006, 05:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 2 2006, 05:29 PM) [snapback]156263[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
About common.ini: Here are positioned the strings that are used all over the game. For example the ship names. If you change these strings here, they will be changed ingame as well. The curses are used by an <insert random curse> function. You can change the curses if you like. But I would recommend not making them into entire sentences, because these curses are frequently used like "<insert random curse>, sentence here".
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Yeah good point on the curses. I just fancied a few piratey 'Damn your eyes' type things. There's an interesting section in Marcus Rediker's <i>'Villains of all Nations: Atlantic Pirates in the Golden Age'</i> that postulates the theory that Pirates used curses and swearing as a form of dialect to distinguish them from their enemies in authority and form a sort of group culture (see pp97-99). In which case pirates should use curses almost as punctuation, the way in modern society certain lowlifes use f-words in routine speech which little awareness of so doing and little regard to the proper use of expletives in signalling anger or some other strong emotional reaction or feeling, or emphasising a point.

Hmmm another question genteelmen:

In the dialog files they all start: string DLG_TEXT[n] { followed by the dialogue lines and closing with another }.
I had thought the number was a unique identifier for that set of dialogue lines, but I've since seen DLG_TEXT[50] used at least twice. Anyone know what this code signifies? I note that in Malcolm's dialogue file the tedious nonsense about the 'freaky storm' isn't in that file either. This makes me wonder where things are.

 

[SirChristopherMings]

Captain Fabris,

I have always figured that the number in the DLG_TEXT[n] coding referred to the number of lines of dialog following that entry. I admit that I have never actually counted them, but that is what I thought they indicated rather than serving as an identifier for the file.

The Malcolm Dialog is a little strange because some of it is in the "c" file as well as the "h" file. Is the dialogue about the "freaky storm" not at the end of the "h" file? I was looking at a Build 12.1 version of the file, so this might not match up with the file you are looking at.

You were asking for input on how the player character should speak, and all I can think of is that any change that you can make that makes the PC say something that doesn't make the PC sound idiotic, like he does in the stock game, would be a great improvement. In changing the dialog in the Santos quest I tried to give the PC dialog options that allowed him to "smart off" to Santos even when he was acquiescing to Santos' orders. I took the liberty of inserting "James Bond"-like quips when the PC reports the outcome of the mission to Santos.

<i>SANTOS: "Here is the 3000 gold we agreed upon Captain, and I've been given to understand that Bricenos' body lies upon Conceição's shore.",
PC:"Yes, one could say that he's all washed up."</i>
[buh-dum-bump.....t'ching!] <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

The idea that this exchange might never have occurred with 17th century participants didn't make me bat an eye, and I changed it without the slightest regard for whether it might or might not be an anachronism. (or even if it wasn't especially funny. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> )

On those same lines, I think a pirate/privateer would try to establish a rapport with whomever he/she is addressing, and to gain their confidence, and possibly learn information that they might be able to turn to their advantage, they might sprinkle a few colloquialisms into their exchanges to effect this. The PC might speak in rougher tones to common people, and change their manner of speech when addressing officers or members of the noble class. I don't think that doing this would create an inconsistency for the player as much enhance the game experience by taking advantage of how class distinctions can affect how people deal and talk with each other. Rather than speaking consistently regardless of whom they address, the PC could try to be a social chameleon and attempt to blend in everywhere. I think this would give you more leeway in editing because the PC adapts his tone to his current circumstance.

 

[Cpt Fabris]

<!--quoteo(post=156313:date=Aug 2 2006, 10:36 PM:name=SirChristopherMings)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirChristopherMings @ Aug 2 2006, 10:36 PM) [snapback]156313[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Captain Fabris,

I have always figured that the number in the DLG_TEXT[n] coding referred to the number of lines of dialog following that entry. I admit that I have never actually counted them, but that is what I thought they indicated rather than serving as an identifier for the file.

The Malcolm Dialog is a little strange because some of it is in the "c" file as well as the "h" file. Is the dialogue about the "freaky storm" not at the end of the "h" file? I was looking at a Build 12.1 version of the file, so this might not match up with the file you are looking at.

You were asking for input on how the player character should speak, and all I can think of is that any change that you can make that makes the PC say something that doesn't make the PC sound idiotic, like he does in the stock game, would be a great improvement. In changing the dialog in the Santos quest I tried to give the PC dialog options that allowed him to "smart off" to Santos even when he was acquiescing to Santos' orders. I took the liberty of inserting "James Bond"-like quips when the PC reports the outcome of the mission to Santos.

<i>SANTOS: "Here is the 3000 gold we agreed upon Captain, and I've been given to understand that Bricenos' body lies upon Conceição's shore.",
PC:"Yes, one could say that he's all washed up."</i>
[buh-dum-bump.....t'ching!] <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

The idea that this exchange might never have occurred with 17th century participants didn't make me bat an eye, and I changed it without the slightest regard for whether it might or might not be an anachronism. (or even if it wasn't especially funny. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> )

On those same lines, I think a pirate/privateer would try to establish a rapport with whomever he/she is addressing, and to gain their confidence, and possibly learn information that they might be able to turn to their advantage, they might sprinkle a few colloquialisms into their exchanges to effect this. The PC might speak in rougher tones to common people, and change their manner of speech when addressing officers or members of the noble class. I don't think that doing this would create an inconsistency for the player as much enhance the game experience by taking advantage of how class distinctions can affect how people deal and talk with each other. Rather than speaking consistently regardless of whom they address, the PC could try to be a social chameleon and attempt to blend in everywhere. I think this would give you more leeway in editing because the PC adapts his tone to his current circumstance.
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Methinks Ye be rite in all and e'ery respeckt. After tousing at the DLG_TEXT and line numbers, it seems Ye were verily correckt in your thinking. Pah, I sound nothing like a pirate...The DLG_Text number correlates to that of the number of lines of dialogue found within the confines of each and e'ery file. Consequently I shall ensure I turn on line numbers in the text editor I use to meddle with the files.

Malcolm's frightfully dreary account of the storm is indeed loitering at the very end of his dialogue file. It seems rather odd to be at the very end of the file, when our first encounters with the man open with the 'Stormy Start'. I shall beware assuming the dialogue is arranged in any sensible or chronological order from this moment forth.

It is probably a good idea indeed, for PC to mix up his dialogue a little according to his conversation partners. There are accounts of Pirates being suspicious (and deposing) a Captain whom they felt spoke too well. Equally a rough spoken cove wouldn't get an audience with a Governor very easily. A mix of styles is indeed a sensible idea. It will be necessary to ensure he treats coxcombs and landlubbers with a suitable degree of (thinly veiled) contempt, but then I'm a Brit and contemptous remarks are like second nature.

Hmmm I now have an image in my head of a Pirate captain making sarky remarks and pulling expressions likely trademarked by Roger Moore (the funniest Bond).