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Flashy exterior on an otherwise dull game?

I like the game, but it's missing something that the original had, or maybe a few somethings.

What this something is, is an intangible that separates a fun game from a classic game. I tend to think it's a culmination of a few things that when added together have left me a bit disappointed with this release.

I am 33 years old now, played the first on my commodore 128 back in '88. I loved that game. It was produced by microprose who's goal was to try to provide an historical context to games so that they could not only be fun, but also somewhat realistic and educational.

Enter the new pirates game.

This time around, we are treated to a more cartoony pirates game that focuses more on instant gratification and fun to the detriment of a more historical balance. All games based on history try to find this balance, I just tend to prefer ones that slide more towards history and less towards simplistic fun.

One of the problems I have with this version is that it seems that everything happens to quickly and too easily, even on swashbuckler difficuluty. Let me give some examples, that when added together make a game that is fun, but not a classic like the original.

Starting out, in the original we would often be treated with only a basic crew that could man a boat plus maybe a few others. We didn't start out with a crew of 40 that can easily take over any ship on the sea. Recruiting to start out with was minimal, generally less than 10 men per tavern, thus necessitating the increase in wealth through trading or a lucky action against an enemy ship where the contest was in question due to the low crew size. This is missing in this game. Now I can go right out, capture 10+ ships and nearly obtain a noble rank with only having to perform 1 recruit session in my starting towns tavern. Heck, I've even been 'treated' with a recruitment of over 64 men on my first go!

Now why is this a big deal to me? Well it takes away, as has been mentioned, 'suspense' of trying to build up a reputation first to attract sailors to my crew with my low crew numbers from the start. Now some will say, 'then don't go recruit'. Well that's kind of silly. I want to play the game, not myself. I want to put in my best efforts and be rewarded by 'beating' the game, not by deciding myself when I should 'merit' high recruiting numbers.

Next issue as has been mentioned is the sighting of ships at sea. There was, like in real life, tension when one saw a sail over the horizon. Could it be a pirate? Could it be a fleet ship hunting you? Or is it just a merchantmen that's actually disguised as a pirate? Well this has been removed as well. It's a shame, because it brought about a level of suspense in the original game. Should I or shouldn't I investigate this sail on the horizon. Will I get my arse handed to me by not being able to outsail a pirate vessel with 100+ crew from my beginning voyages? This has been removed. Now we get chased and the enemy can sit there an pound us at will with cannons while we can either keep sailing without being able to return fire unless we 'engage' in a ship vs ship sea action. What's worse, we can see by simply moving a mouse pointer over the ship, who it is and where they are going. So much for the suspense of that sail on the horizon.

Another issue I have is the econmy in the game. It doesn't seem to be reactive in the same way that the original game was. I can trade over and over with ports that are 'poor' or 'struggling' and I have little to no effect on the economy like I did in the original game. I used to enjoy making wealthy or properous towns out of the usually poor towns, usually after I captured them for my colonial power of choice. Now, trading is just an after thought. I don't need to engage in it at all to amass a good fortune or to improve a colony's economy.

Treasure fleet and the silver train.

Where is the silver train? What happened to chasing that elusive treasure fleet from town to town and finally catching it and receiving tens of thousands of gold pieces? In the original game there was somewhat of a challenge to hit a city at the right time to capture these large fortune prizes. How doubly exciting whenever you got a town with both of them present. No longer there, no we get to find 'treasure ships' that contain a couple thousand gold pieces. Not too exciting in my book.

Promotions happen much too easily now as well. In the original game, you'd have to find an capture many, many ships to rise in the 'noble' ranks. It seemed each rank of nobility required more feats to be obtained. Now this is still the case, but with the abundance of ships everywhere and the ease of finding them, it's made promotions too easy to obtain. The challenge and time investment (not a large one) seem to have disappeared in an effort to be 'fun'. I generally have found that in life, the things one appreciates and enjoys the most are those that one has to work for. When something is easily or readily obtained, it's value and the enjoyment derived from it are lessened. This seems to apply to the ranks system in the current version of the game.

Sea battle also aren't quite as challenging as they were before. I recall having to worry about the weather guage to ensure I could attack and capture a ship where I clearly outmatched it as it would do it's best to run to the horizon and the ever looming end of the day that would bring about the end of the chase. This again would build suspense and gave more historical flavor to the sea fights as wind direction and type of ship matter much more than it does presently. Now it seems that no matter what, ships will attempt to engage battle with me no matter how many men I have on my ship compared to my opponent. It's become a simple repeatable exercise in close, duel, gain new ship.

Repeatable isn't bad in and of itself, however when combined with a lack of suspense and reward for effort, it becomes boring and unfulfilling.

Some of the other issues will hopefully be patched, such as hunting baron raymondo over and over. These kinds of things I can tolerate assuming a patch is in the works to address them.

It's the other intangible items that when taken individually aren't much, but when added together bring about a disappointing whole. Now I've enjoyed the game, so I don't want it to sound as if I've had little fun. However, it is missing that certain something, some of those things I've mentioned in this post, that when added together stop this game from being a remake of the classic and have made it just a fun but not engrossing game like the original. When I saw the attitude on the official website that they were trying to make a 'fun' game as opposed to trying to make a more historically based game (no, I don't want scurvy, rickets, rape etc) I was concerned. It seems that they've produced a game that contains a bunch of `mini-games` (maze, duel, ship v ship, turn based land combat) but that doesn't quite tie it altogether in an engrossing way that will keep me coming back as Pirates did, first on the commodore 128, then amiga, and finally pirates gold.
 
A couple thoughts.

I played the original (or, rather, the version ported to PCs) and loved it. I also didn't expect anything all that different in this release. I expected the original Pirates! but all done up, makeup applied, and made nice and pretty... but with substantially the same game play. I don't think Sid, Firaxis or anyone else every promised or implied anything other than exactly that. So, the criticism that it is the same as the original without much added to it is valid... to a point. It is largely the same as the original, but I don't believe they ever said it would have anything added to it.

Personally, I like the simplicity. I'm so tired of all the bells and whistles designers are trying to put on their games now and, in the process, sacrifice the core of what makes the game fun and why you bought it in the first place. Here, I bought the game for a fun, romanticized, playful version of being a pirate.

Yes, the quests are a bit repetitive. Highly repetitive, actually, and that's why I'm taking a break. But I also agree wholehearted with what Captain Sky said earlier. You come back to it. You start a new career, you try things a little differently. The 16 Baron Raymondos you have to hunt down is moronic and easily fixed, and is irritating. There is definitely room for improvement here, just as there is room for improvement with the Treasure Fleet (and putting the Silver Train back into the game). But, aside from the myriad of Raymondos and the major windfalls of the Fleet and Train, the "repetitiveness" is very, very much like the original.

So, the criticisms are not invalid. I think they're fair and, for what they're worth, accurate. But I think it's maybe a little unfair to say, "It's 2004... why isn't this better/more/greater/bigger/grander/etc?"

That's it. Peace,
~Snowy
 
Well, it's been awhile, but I'm back on the scene and just had to make my returning post here.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />

So, anyways, it's been said in this post that the new Pirates! isn't as historical or accurate as the first one was. Let me respond to that by simply stating that Sid wanted to appeal to the widest possible audience with this new version. And I can't blame him. I mean, it worked, didn't it?

Yes, those who want the historical aspect to be deeper are complaining, but still enjoying the game none the less. And I've seen and heard about this game being played by people who don't normally play video games, my friend and his fiance included. The simplicity is second to none, yet it has a replayable deepness that will most likely keep this game alive in people's hearts just as long as the original did and maybe more so.

Plus, there are numerous people I know who wouldn't even touch the original simply due to the old graphics. Yes, it's sad, but they exist. Graphics whores. They've grown up in this day of hot technological 3D orgasms and have been spoiled by it. Well now they don't have an excuse and I can list a few graphics whores I know who are enjoying this game immensely.

Sure it has it's problems. I would love to see less Baron Raymondo clones and more variety there. I would love to see different types of quests get added. Someone mentioned they would like to not be able to see ship designations until they are closer, and I think that would be awesome as well. Of course, you could always use the spyglass to check them out ahead of time if you wanted. There are also some minor graphics glitches I wouldn't mind seeing get fixed, but those aren't anything game killing and honestly not that big a deal. The ONLY thing that bothers me is how friggin slow the thing runs when I make landfall. That's an issue that I certainly hope gets addressed. Again though, it's not game killing, just frustrating at times.

Besides, there's always the modding community. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

All in all, I feel it's a great facelift for a wonderful classic that will always remain a permanent part of my hard drive right alongside it's predecessor.
And it's definitely the first pirate game since Sea Dogs to really grab me by the curtails and not let go. POTC was fun for awhile, but ultimately was a major letdown no thanks in part to Disney. If it weren't for some of the modders on this site, that game probably wouldn't have seen a third of the gameplay I gave it.

Anyways, I'm loving Pirates! and will continue to do so despite it's minor flaws. I give it two thumbs up!

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
Reiryc - Certainly some valid points, but I was just wondering If you have tried out the various difficulties in regards to taking ships and recruiting crew early and too easily.

Personally If i try to attack a Sloop or Pinnace on a high level and I outman them or outgun them with a large ship like a war galleon, they do a runner and I never see them again <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> Not that ideally I'd be crawling around the seas in a war galleon <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

And again recruiting on a higher level early days the crew numbers from ports are low until I've split my high plunder once or twice thus increasing the number for next time.

Having seen my GF playing on hers on quite an easy setting she too was finding plenty of crew at every port and ships sailing into her. Just wondering, that be all <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reiryc - Certainly some valid points, but I was just wondering If you have tried out the various difficulties in regards to taking ships and recruiting crew early and too easily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Swashbuckler and find it pretty easy for the most part. Definetely not like rogue or below of course. I just hit the windward island and you can grab `8-10` at each stop. Once you get a crew to about 100 it's over, you can demolish any ship out there by simply sailing right at it and taking it over in duels.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally If i try to attack a Sloop or Pinnace on a high level and I outman them or outgun them with a large ship like a war galleon, they do a runner and I never see them again<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I see that too. However, these peaceful galleons, merchantmen etc, should also tuck tail and run when they see an unknown vessel approach them.
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, these peaceful galleons, merchantmen etc, should also tuck tail and run when they see an unknown vessel approach them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Once they be seeing m'sails, it be their only route for survival <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> It does seem feasible they would run, but in one of Cptn' Toasts interesting historical looks at Pirates an undermanned large ship without the speed to do a runner would have to think long and hard before it did. Its bad enough having a crew of pirates sack your ship, but if you've pissed them off first <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
Recruitment is easier, the higher rank you have, and the higher reputation you've earned. Once you're "famous" (or infamous, LOL!), your reputation preceeds you - so when you enter the tavern you can recruit easier...

Successfully dueling with the captain who's annoying the bar tart also makes for easier recruitment. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

And I've noticed some ships DO try evasive maneuvers when they spot me coming at them.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-CatalinaThePirate`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CatalinaThePirate)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
And I've noticed some ships DO try evasive maneuvers when they spot me coming at them.[/quote]

Aye Cat,noticed it as well,don't do em much good though <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
In my current game I have a 50k price on my head from English and a 47k price on my head from Spanish. Alot of those countries ships will turn tail and run when they see me coming with the exception of the big boys who just tell me to stay away. Yeah, right. Like that's gonna happen, matey.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />
 
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