• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Game seems to be moving towards the Napoleonic era

Should Build 13 include Napoleonic stuff?

  • Build 13 should include Napoleonic Stuff

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Build 13 should remain in the 1690's with an optional Napoleonic add-on

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
D

Dom1172

Landlubber
Storm Modder
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> All,

With all the planned add-ons, like new fleets, Napoleonic officers uniforms etc. the game seems to be moving away from its' age of piracy roots.

My question to the community in general is, should this new stuff be incorporated into build 13 or that be kept rooted in its' original 1690's time frame and the Napoleonic stuff be available as a separate add-on?
 
As I suggested this some time ago, I support idea of Build 13 remaining in 1690 and addon for Napoleonic era - this will require a huge amount of extra work but we'll get two good games in the end.

pirate_kk
 
I personally would like to add everything that is nice to add, as long as it fists more or less into the game world and as long as it doesn't overwrite anything good. I would be quite happy to add in British and French naval vessels. I personally don't like a large amount of seperate mods, because it means a whole lot of additional work for me to keep track of them all... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
I believe that if community make decision about creating an addon for Napoleonic era, someone who would support idea of adding features for that period the most would act as "compiler" (taking role similar to that of Pieter for pure Build) - this would help.

However I personally prefer the game to stay in 1690s. So, I'm not a good candidate for this task.

pirate_kk
 
I think its gonna be nice to make the out-of-the-era mods as mutch choicable as you can, but with ships, Its easyer to not give them to AI, and in the shipyards put ages before their names, (like 1810luggerVML ) or simply make them avaliable only in the right era, when enough years passed until they appear. ANd this way you can give em' to AI too.
And this way make a historically correct timeline with armies, technology, wear, all mods. (I really like the idea....) just make them date-related. And you can choose, somewhere around stormy start dialog, in what date you want to start!!!!!

Personally, just personally I feel 1800's really out of date, But I do really like to see all-century 1700's ships, armies, n'mods, that was the bloody eclipse of pirate era, no? We can make those mods HARDER, and let players may alter history!!! And rule the high seas forever as pirates.
 
A good question.

However, I would pose several other questions. Is The Pirates of the Caribbean really rooted in the classic age of piracy? Is 1690 the correct setting in time? How was 1690 arrived at in the developement of the Build? I vaguely remember the Stock POTC being set in 1665 or thereabouts. Or is that SLiB?

Consider the following:

-If this game was Sea Dogs 2 (as originally intended) then it would be reasonable to assume a mid 17th century setting. Sea Dogs 1 was 1600, or was it 1630?

-The game is POTC though, based on the movie of the same name. After all we have The Black Pearl as part of the main quest, undead sailors and natives, and with a bit of modding Jack Sparrow, Will Turner, Barbossa, etc. skins.

-Unless I'm missing something, there is more to suggest that the movie is set in the mid to late 18th century, rather than the late 17th century. Here are some examples:

1. The Blue Ensigns on the ships were in use between 1707 and 1800.
2. Officers and sailors appear to have standard uniforms reasonably consistant (if somewhat stylised) with the late 18th century. Standard officer uniforms were introduced in 1748, and although there was no actual standard uniform for sailors, a degree of uniformity of dress was demanded by many captains of the late 18th century.
3. Commodore Norrington is wearing the Medal of the Order of Bath. This order was founded by George I in 1725.
4. Look carefully at HMS Dauntless. It mounts carronades. Carronades were introduced in 1779.

It is quite possible that POTC remains deliberately vague about it's setting in time. To me there are a number of elements to suggest the later part of the 18th century and not much at all to suggest 1690. I maybe mistaken but the HMS Dauntless has more of an 18th century look to it. Somebody mentioned elsewhere on this forum (something outside my sphere of knowledge) that ships wheels weren't a common feature until the 18th century. The Dauntless and Interceptor have them.

As I mentioned before, I'd be interested to know how 1690 was chosen as the start date for the Build. Was it just naturally assumed that POTC was set in the 17th century. Remember that Sea Dogs 2 would have been set in the 17th century, however, many things were left incomplete, bugs remained, etc, when Disney took over and rushed it out. Is it not possible that they forgot to change the date of the setting? If somebody can find any background information regarding when the movie is set then that'd be great...then we'd all know. If it is late 17th century well then that means the Build setting is correct. But that also means there are substantial irregularities in the movie on which the game is based. Do we accept irregularities for the game? Do we allow a similar level of license? If not then many elements would need to be taken out of the Build as it is and has been for some time, the already existing British Naval Uniforms and carronades just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Either way it's easy for me to rationalise the inclusion of late 18th century elements based on it's relationship to the movie-
a) The setting is in fact late 18th century, no probs, or b) The setting is 1690 with a large amount of license to allow for many anachronistic elements as mentioned above.

Cheers mates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
As far as I'm concerned, I would be quite happy to change the game's time setting into the 18th century instead of the 17th. Also: I personally don't care for a very high sense of historical realism. I just want to add everything in that makes the game fun. I don't care if the English 18th Century navy would be fighting the French 17th Century navy or something like that. As long as it's fun. We could decide PotC is a fictional world with the best parts of all piratey centuries anyway. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Edit:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> As long as things remain more-or-less in the same time settings. No truly obvious anachronisms like machine guns, aircraft carriers and mobile phones. And no US navy. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

This is one of the points we will have to decide on in the <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net/index.php?showtopic=7049&hl=" target="_blank">Future of PotC Modding</a> thread.

LOL! Looks like, so far, I am the only person to vote for the first option in the poll. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
 
Well actually, I agree with you Pieter, if it's fun and adds to the scope of the game I think it should go in, but Ithought it was worth posing the question to see what the general concensus was.

Also with the US not appearing as a nation there won't be anywhere to attach their fleet to <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
What about US ships being used, without any mention of these ships being US in the game? So you'd see the English navy sailing US ships. Or is that too unrealistic for most people's taste? Personally, I wouldn't see the difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Geez, I hate to be a small "c" conservative but I think the current time frame if fine. I wouldn't object if you wanted to move the start to 1710 -20, that way you could have ships build in the American colonies but no American navy. You might want to consider renaming the ones that have American in the titile with to some thing like Boston, and or Virginia.
 
<!--quoteo(post=143737:date=Mar 28 2006, 02:08 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Mar 28 2006, 02:08 PM) [snapback]143737[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What about US ships being used, without any mention of these ships being US in the game? So you'd see the English navy sailing US ships. Or is that too unrealistic for most people's taste? Personally, I wouldn't see the difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

cant we code it in as *time related* that should be much nicer, iron defence plates.. etc
 
No easily. The problem at the moment is that a lot of things <i>are</i> possible, theoretically speaking, but it's very difficult to code, especially considering that hardly anyone knows how to.
 
<!--quoteo(post=143742:date=Mar 28 2006, 03:18 PM:name=Jason)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Mar 28 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]143742[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Geez, I hate to be a small "c" conservative but I think the current time frame if fine. I wouldn't object if you wanted to move the start to 1710 -20, that way you could have ships build in the American colonies but no American navy. You might want to consider renaming the ones that have American in the titile with to some thing like Boston, and or Virginia.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That would be quite simple to implement, I'll certainly have a look at that when i get to US ships on my 'to do' list. I think though, the question of US ships, colonies and time frame should be part of the wider discussion of where the mod goes from here.
But for those interested in US ships it probably wouldn't be hard to make an add-on pack with ships like, for example, Virginia Sloop or Boston Corvette, etc. etc.

I can't see this getting done for some time though and I think that for the moment, the priority must lie with expanding the fleets of the existing nations in the game.
 
I think US ships and stuff should be left out, i just dont connect the US with the age of piracy, age of sail and ect. to me the golden age of sail is: England, France, Spain and Holland

However i do think the time should be changed to something like 1710 or 1720, it was the peak of the golden age of piracy, and alot of the newer things started to appear then.

late 17th century to mid 18th, late 18th century feels somehow too close to present day, i kind of like the feeling of the time having been like 3-400 years ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

But definaltey not the napoleonic era, the french tricolor just dosent register with me for then, maybe pre french revolution when the french king was still in power and flying the fleur de lis
 
<!--quoteo(post=144124:date=Mar 31 2006, 11:40 AM:name=Merciless Mark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merciless Mark @ Mar 31 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]144124[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
However i do think the time should be changed to something like 1710 or 1720, it was the peak of the golden age of piracy, and alot of the newer things started to appear then.

late 17th century to mid 18th, late 18th century feels somehow too close to present day, i kind of like the feeling of the time having been like 3-400 years ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'd agree with this suggestion. Only value of making it second half of the 18th century though is that it means JMV and Derringer's British navy uniforms could be used (if dated after 1748) if and when they are added back to the game. Otherwise (as has been stated in the uniform thread) most of those packs are innappropriate for the time period where for the navies uniforms didn't exist and the soldiers/marines had very different uniforms to the game and those skin packs.
Certainly the 1720's period (upto 1725/6) was the most active for pirates due in part to large numbers of unemployed sailors laid-off from the navy and privateers after the end of the War of Spanish Sucession. But then I don't know about the rest of the POTC players I find myself playing more as a privateer than pirate, so basing the game during the War of Spanish Sucession might be more sensible?
 
<b>When it comes to Build 13...</b>
I believe that the 13th build should not consist of any historical refrences. Pure enhancements and gameplay modifications. This way, the player has the option to add new ships, keep the stock game, etc. and sail in the 1690s... or download the <b>Napoleonic/War of 1812 Addon</b> and completely overwrite all the files with new flags, ships, people, and Portugal renamed The United States.

I would be willing to start a thread that contains a checklist for a <b>Napoleonic/War of 1812</b> mod. Then, people who have made ships, characters, flags, etc. can post replies...submit their work. Once this is all compiled, I could somehow make a copy of my game and put it online for download. All you have to do is copy and paste the PotC folder and click "replace origional with this".

I am currently haveing ftp problems. I've got ftp core lite and ftp commander, neither of which, will connect to the PA! server. I can't seem to pinpoint the setting in the firewall that prevents me from opening the ftp, so mabye there is a loophole? What if someone made a website similar to Peiter's page and posted the files there? It would seem more official and be accessable to those without the ftp programs.

To those who are striving to make <b><i>Pirates of the Caribbean: Patriots and Emperors</b></i>
Thanks again for your support!
 
You can send the files to me by e-mail (if the file's too large, use www.yousendit.com), then I'll upload them somewhere. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=146112:date=Apr 21 2006, 03:07 AM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Commodore John Paul Jones @ Apr 21 2006, 03:07 AM) [snapback]146112[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>When it comes to Build 13...</b>
I believe that the 13th build should not consist of any historical refrences. Pure enhancements and gameplay modifications. This way, the player has the option to add new ships, keep the stock game, etc. and sail in the 1690s... or download the <b>Napoleonic/War of 1812 Addon</b> and completely overwrite all the files with new flags, ships, people, and Portugal renamed The United States.

I would be willing to start a thread that contains a checklist for a <b>Napoleonic/War of 1812</b> mod. Then, people who have made ships, characters, flags, etc. can post replies...submit their work. Once this is all compiled, I could somehow make a copy of my game and put it online for download. All you have to do is copy and paste the PotC folder and click "replace origional with this".

I am currently haveing ftp problems. I've got ftp core lite and ftp commander, neither of which, will connect to the PA! server. I can't seem to pinpoint the setting in the firewall that prevents me from opening the ftp, so mabye there is a loophole? What if someone made a website similar to Peiter's page and posted the files there? It would seem more official and be accessable to those without the ftp programs.

To those who are striving to make <b><i>Pirates of the Caribbean: Patriots and Emperors</b></i>
Thanks again for your support!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

On the PA! FTP you can get 2 napoleonic era flag sets in my flagpack compilation, "merciless_flagpacks"

One with the French tricolor of the time and one with the french white ensign of the era, both british flags in the 2 packs are from 1801 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=146238:date=Apr 22 2006, 01:40 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Commodore John Paul Jones @ Apr 22 2006, 01:40 PM) [snapback]146238[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Sounds great! Would you like to join the Potc:p&E mod team, Mark?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well, join, perhpas not, however, i wouldnt mind contributing whenever i make something that fits the era <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top