Historical correct flags and sail emblems

[Jack Black]

Hi there,
I'm a little bit dissatisfied with the actual flags and sail emblems for the different nations. So I searched the internet for a reliable source to make some historical correct flags and emblems. But there are hundreds of sources that listed some different timelines for using the different flags and coat of arms. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" />

So I make some sails and flags and I want to know from you if you think that they are historical correct or not. Maybe here is someone around who knows a lot about historical heraldry and can help me with that.

So here are the examples I made.

First the flags. I've changed the french, the spanish and the dutch flag a little bit.
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_6337326565363434.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

I changed the french flag from the national flag (white background with yellow "Fleur-de-lis") to the royal colors (blue background with yellow "Fleur-de-lis").

The french sail emblem is the royal coat of arms which was used in the 16th and 17th century.
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_3065373234353065.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

There are many different variants of the spanisch flags listed so I decided for a flag that used on spanish Galleons in spanish waters. But it is mentioned that the red and yellow flag, which is used since today as spanish national flag, could be used too.

As a sail emblem I could take the royal banner used from 1580 A.D. to 1700 A.D. but I think it is much too overloaded and too colorful. I don't like it.
Are there any sugestions for a better spanish emblem?
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_3031336432366661.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />


I've changed the dutch flag only a little bit so upper red stripe is bit more orange. But I'm not really sure about that because it's said that Holland changed the flag around 1700 A.D. from orange to red.
As emblem I've used the coat of arms of the "Utrecht Union" and of the "Republic of the United Netherlands" which was used from 1579 to 1795.
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_3862383333646531.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

As the emblem for portugal I take the Order of Christ cross which was used sometimes on warships. But as for spanish flags there are many different variants for portugese flags and coat of arms.
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_3364346232333235.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />


I would appreciate it if someone could help with his historical knowledge. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />


[edit] Uuups, I forget the english sail emblem. This one was the royal coat of arms which was used on ships that belonged to the royal family.
<img src="http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/34/2801134/1280_6237633133623638.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Your textures look pretty nice. I find most of them to be VERY elaborate. I can't imagine that all the countries would go to the trouble of painting all their sails with such detail. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I thought those red crosses were used on Spanish ships, not Portuguese... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

On a more-or-less related note:
In reality, how frequently were emblems on sails used? I think that most ships had plain white sails with no emblems at all. I'd like to make a mod that will give all ships white sails again. Then you'd need to see the flag to be able to find out the nation. Makes the game feel more real, I think.

 

[Sherlockzor]

i thought that the flags already where historical correct :s its bloody a bloody deja vue for me

 

[Jack Black]

<!--quoteo(post=157895:date=Aug 13 2006, 01:03 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 13 2006, 01:03 PM) [snapback]157895[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Your textures look pretty nice. I find most of them to be VERY elaborate. I can't imagine that all the countries would go to the trouble of painting all their sails with such detail. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I thought those red crosses were used on Spanish ships, not Portuguese... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

On a more-or-less related note:
In reality, how frequently were emblems on sails used? I think that most ships had plain white sails with no emblems at all. I'd like to make a mod that will give all ships white sails again. Then you'd need to see the flag to be able to find out the nation. Makes the game feel more real, I think.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The spanish used another kind of this red cross like this one from the game. The portugese use the Order of Christ cross with white cross (or no color <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> ) inside and wide endings.

You're right. In reality there are no emblems used on sails. Normally they are used different flags on different masts.
For example the pirate Edward England raise the "Jolly Roger"on the main-mast and the english flag (white background with red St. George cross) on the mizzen-mast as his personal flag because of his surname not of his nationality (he was irish). On the fore-mast he raise often a pure red flag without any emblems to indicate that once the ship had been captured no man would be spared if they resists against the boarding.

On main mast or the additonal flagmast there are normally shown the national flag, on the other masts there should be shown additonal flags, personal flags, family emblems, merchant or command flags.
But unfortunaly in the game it is not possible to raise different flags on the masts.

Maybe it is a good idea for a later MOD. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

But as long as we weren't able to set different flags, pennants or banners I like to use these emblems on sails.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The different flags you mention is a mod that Pirate KK has been working on for quite some time. Apparently he has managed to get it almost done. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[Jack Black]

That would be great. I hope he got this MOD working soon. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[Sherlockzor]

aha so i was right

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The different flags you mention is a mod that Pirate KK has been working on for quite some time. Apparently he has managed to get it almost done.

Holy moly... we're three years later and NOW it's finally nearing completion.
Goes to show HOW LONG that mod has been in the works!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Does anyone remember who made the Irish-ish flags and sails at some point in the past?
I'm pretty sure someone did. Also, if anybody knows any other personal flags people have made,
we maybe could add them in the Different Flags mod now.