Fixed Hornblower Storyline: Changes Required

[Grey Roger]

At the moment the last chapter in "Chronicles of Horatio Hornblower" is "Old Friends - New Enemies". This involves lots of action on Guadeloupe, including some switching of identities so that you can observe several conversations which do not involve Hornblower himself. You are not returned to Horatio Hornblower's identity; by the time you leave Guadeloupe and head for Bridgetown, you are still Lt. William Bush.

You go to Mrs. Manson's house, propose marriage to Maria, she accepts, and that's the last entry in your quest book. The quest "Old Friends - New Enemies" does not close.

Many of the story characters are still in your Passengers list, including Richard Sharpe and some of his riflemen, plus Teresa Moreno; and several naval officers, including Archie Kennedy, who is literally a dead man walking because he's supposed to have died at the end of "Mutiny".

 

[Grey Roger]

He's at it again.

Hornblower was caught officer-smuggling and sentenced to prison. The illicit officer was confiscated. Hornblower and his accomplices escaped but were soon recaptured, then were released after serving their sentence. He seemed to be going straight for a while, but latest police reports indicate that he's now in possession of another illegal officer.

Translation into real game-play: I'd hired Rys Bloom, which turned out to be a mistake because when you're captured and imprisoned in "The Duchess and the Devil", any officers you have with you (other than the two midshipmen provided by the story) disappear. But later on I found another loophole. If you capture an enemy ship and the captain surrenders, you can release him, kill him, be civilised or stick him in the brig, but the option to hire him is no longer present. So you put him in the brig. Moor at the next port, go to your cargo hold, talk to him, then you can hire him.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

One thing I can say is that while hiring officers generally didn't break the main story when there were various loopholes to allow it, hiring Fred Bob probably will. The main story takes you to Martinique for the "Land Battle" section, so it may seem logical to do the various side quests in St. Pierre right after. But right after "Land Battle", William Chumley is assigned to you as an active companion. You're then supposed to go to Speightstown, where Chumley says a few last words and then walks off, then Pellew tells you about your reassignment which leads to the "Mutiny" section. If, after the battle but before you head to Speightstown, you hire Fred Bob, he takes the companion slot occupied by Chumley rather than being assigned a free slot. You can't put him back because companion assignment is now disabled. So when you get to Speightstown, Chumley isn't active and the story can't progress. (Rys Bloom is not a problem; when you hire him, he goes into your passenger list but doesn't become an active companion. All he does is sit quietly in the background gathering experience.)

Good point. Need to remember that for later.

 

[Grey Roger]

As for Fred Bob, the quick dirty fix may simply be to stick him into a different slot, so he doesn't kick Chumley out of your active companions. Or have him join as an inactive passenger the same way Rys Bloom does, then he can't get in the way of any other characters until the main story ends and you're allowed to assign him yourself.

I am not very familiar with the "officer slots" code so it would take me a bit of figuring out to make that change.
It seems to me that the best solution would be to not allow you to hire Fred Bob at all until after the Hornblower main quest has completed.
But I don't want to start putting such limitations in place until after I am further into the progress I described in my previous post.
For now, the solution is simple: Manually don't hire Fred Bob at that point. It'll have to be prevented at some point, but not right now to prevent double work on my part.

I don't know where you're putting the side quests, but look for this:

// --> CatalinaThePirate FB Quest

     case "fred_bob_becomes_officer":
       SetOfficersIndex(Pchar, 2, GetCharacterIndex("Fred Bob"));
       pchar.quest.fred_bob = "0";
       CloseQuestHeader("fred_bob");
     break;

In that "SetOfficersIndex" line, I'd guess that changing the 2 to 3 would do the job. There's a similar line in "Storyline\Hornblower\quests\quests_reaction.c" for Chumley which also has a 2 - if that gets changed instead then it would probably work.

Blocking Fred Bob from being hired effectively disables the "Help the Lady" side quest.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't know where you're putting the side quests, but look for this:

// --> CatalinaThePirate FB Quest

     case "fred_bob_becomes_officer":
       SetOfficersIndex(Pchar, 2, GetCharacterIndex("Fred Bob"));
       pchar.quest.fred_bob = "0";
       CloseQuestHeader("fred_bob");
     break;

In that "SetOfficersIndex" line, I'd guess that changing the 2 to 3 would do the job. There's a similar line in "Storyline\Hornblower\quests\quests_reaction.c" for Chumley which also has a 2 - if that gets changed instead then it would probably work.

Blocking Fred Bob from being hired effectively disables the "Help the Lady" side quest.

Can you try setting it to -1 (minus one)? I have seen that used here and there and probably either fits him into whatever slot is free OR just adds him into the passengers list.
Not sure, but you can try and you'll find out soon enough.

My idea was to block most sidequests in Hornblower until after the main quest has completed.
After all, you're not supposed to be deviating from the main quest and there are even some penalties in place here and there for if you do.
But perhaps that is indeed not worth doing.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The -1 change as proposed above has now been included in here:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-3-5-internal-wip-for-testing.24817/

 

[Grey Roger]

Will the new installer plus zip update require a new game? My current "Hornblower" campaign was played under the earlier Beta 3.5 installer plus 11th March zip update.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Will the new installer plus zip update require a new game? My current "Hornblower" campaign was played under the earlier Beta 3.5 installer plus 11th March zip update.

If it does force you to start a new game, just decrease the IS_SVG (or something like that) value at the bottom of PROGRAM\globals.c so that it does accept your savegame again.
That shouldn't do any actual harm; it'll just mean that some new stuff doesn't take effect in your game.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Grey Roger: If I recall, you mentioned making some code changes of your own to the Hornblower storyline.
Do you still have those? I might as well include them in the modpack before they get overwritten and lost altogether.

 

[Grey Roger]

Most of them you seem to have done independently anyway, e.g. changing Fred Bob's dialog so he doesn't displace William Chumley.

I can't find my modified files where I changed Spain's and France's international relations, and they're probably obsolete now anyway due to the newest update. I'll see if I can remember what I put where, do the same to the updated files, then upload those.

The storyline ends with Hornblower being married. That ought to affect his options with governors' daughters. Presumably a variable is set somewhere when you marry one daughter so you don't get to do it again; if so, perhaps it should also be set at the end of the storyline.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Most of them you seem to have done independently anyway, e.g. changing Fred Bob's dialog so he doesn't displace William Chumley.

Indeed I followed your recommendations on that one to see if it would work.

I can't find my modified files where I changed Spain's and France's international relations, and they're probably obsolete now anyway due to the newest update. I'll see if I can remember what I put where, do the same to the updated files, then upload those.

Thanks!

We could modify the Revolutions and Napoleonic default nation relations as well for story purposes.
The original idea was that Revolutions has the war between England and the USA and Napoleonic has England vs. France instead.
And Jack Aubrey was supposed to fight the USA with Hornblower and Nelson fighting France.
But I think right now it is just "everyone against France" which doesn't seem very varied.

The storyline ends with Hornblower being married. That ought to affect his options with governors' daughters. Presumably a variable is set somewhere when you marry one daughter so you don't get to do it again; if so, perhaps it should also be set at the end of the storyline.

Indeed that would make sense. There must be a line somewhere; will have to search for it.

 

[Grey Roger]

Relations change during the Hornblower story. France is initially supposed to be neutral, then declares war, and Pellew makes a rousing speech which was captured on video and included in the game. Spain is supposed to be hostile to Britain, otherwise the whole "Devil and the Duchess" and "Capture Spanish Fort" sections make no sense. (If the story is ever extended to include events in the old Gregory Peck film then Spain is going to have to make peace with Britain during that episode - the change of relations is crucial to the plot!)

"Revolutions" should perhaps start with France at peace with Britain, but it didn't take long to declare war. That forced Britain to keep significant forces back, which probably helped the American victory. In any case, it's not just "everyone against France". If anything, it should be "everyone against Britain" - France, Spain and Holland all joined in on America's side, and Portugal doesn't exist in PoTC at that time. "Napoleonic" differs in that Holland should be on Britain's side against Napoleon and America should be neutral. But England/Britain being hostile to France is the natural state in all eras except possibly "Early Explorers" - the main difference is which side everyone else is on.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Of course relation changes can be easily incorportated in the Hornblower storyline. Not so in Free Play though because they are fixed at the beginning of the game and random afterwards.

Portugal does still exist in the last time period; it just doesn't have a town anymore. There are still Portuguese ships and there is also an Emissary character in the former Portuguese townhall.

My main point is that I don't want the Aubrey, Nelson and Hornblower free play scenarios to ALL start hostile to France and friendly to the USA.
At least one of the three should be hostile to the USA I think and based on what I understand of the M&C books, the Aubrey one would be the most appropriate.
But Aubrey starts in the Napoleonic period now (right?) where England is hostile to France and friendly to the USA,
the idea being that "Revolutions" refers to the US revolution and features England vs. America as default setting.

For the Hornblower storyline this can be overridden so that the USA are friendly at the start so they don't interfere with the storyline.
Not sure if that needs to be done though.

 

[Grey Roger]

"Revolutions" should, by definition, have Britain hostile to USA. "Napoleonic" should start with Britain neutral to USA. In reality that changed round about 1812, so if the M&C books were set late in the Napoleonic wars then Aubrey could fight Americans. But since Aubrey will be playing pure free-play then he won't be following the books anyway. Perhaps have a condition, the same way as is done for promotion ships, that if you start as Aubrey then America is hostile.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Perhaps have a condition, the same way as is done for promotion ships, that if you start as Aubrey then America is hostile.

Can be done. There is already an Aubrey check to give him the book-officers anyway. Would just need to add to that.

Nelson starts in Revolutions, right? So then he would be hostile to the USA and (I think) friendly to France. Does that sound Nelson-ey to you?
My first thought would be to swap the Nelson and Aubrey starting dates so that Aubrey deals with the US Revolutions and it is Nelson and Hornblower against Napoleon.

 

[Grey Roger]

The Nelson story is "Nelson's First Command", which is HMS Badger. In reality he had that command during the "Revolutions" era, when France had joined in. So both France and USA should be hostile to Britain. Probably Spain and Holland too, since they also joined in against Britain. Players not so familiar with Nelson's early history will probably be confused if they don't see him fighting France, since that's what he was famous for!

Aubrey should also have France as a legitimate target - in the film, he was after a French frigate.

 

[Grey Roger]

@Grey Roger: If I recall, you mentioned making some code changes of your own to the Hornblower storyline.
Do you still have those? I might as well include them in the modpack before they get overwritten and lost altogether.

I've re-created the changes I made. At the end of "StartStoryline.c", I've added a couple of lines to set France to neutral and Spain to hostile. In "quests_reaction.c", in the case section "War_With_France", Britain and France go to war. I did a quick test, starting a new game (with a new profile so as not to wipe my savegames), going straight through the early story as quickly as possible, and checking relations throughout. Spain is indeed hostile; France does indeed start off neutral, then declares war just in time for Pellew to tell me that France has declared war.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The Nelson story is "Nelson's First Command", which is HMS Badger. In reality he had that command during the "Revolutions" era, when France had joined in. So both France and USA should be hostile to Britain. Probably Spain and Holland too, since they also joined in against Britain. Players not so familiar with Nelson's early history will probably be confused if they don't see him fighting France, since that's what he was famous for!

Aubrey should also have France as a legitimate target - in the film, he was after a French frigate.

If you have any suggestions for default relations in Revolutions and Napoleonic along with appropriate starting dates for Nelson and Aubrey, then you can consider me interested.

 

[Grey Roger]

Nelson was appointed Master and Commander of HMS Badger on 8th December 1778, by which time France had joined the war. That, then, would seem to be the logical starting state for "Nelson's First Command". Spain allied with France. Holland joined in later. So default relations would probably be Britain hostile to France, Spain and USA, and neutral to Holland; France allied to Spain and USA; everyone else neutral to everyone else unless you can think of a good reason for them not to be. Basically it's everyone against Britain, either because they wanted to grab bits of the British Empire while Britain was trying to hold onto America, or because Britain had actively annoyed them.

"Napoleonic" is again Britain against France. There were several phases to the Napoleonic war, leading to various nations changing sides. USA should be neutral to both until the war of 1812 makes it hostile to Britain. Spain is initially allied to France but switches sides in 1808, so again its alignment depends on when during the Napoleonic war a scenario takes place. (Events in the "Hornblower" film must have been in 1808 since the plot hinges on Spain switching sides.) Holland is allied with France due to not actually existing as an independent state until it was liberated in 1813 and subsequently became the United Kingdom of the Netherlands in 1815. So basically, early Napoleonic is again almost everyone against Britain, with USA neutral; late Napoleonic is everyone against France, except USA which is hostile to Britain.

The exception is Portugal, which remains allied to Britain throughout both periods. It's generally neutral to everyone else in "Revolutions", and hostile to France in "Napoleonic". Relations with other nations probably depend on their relations with Britain and France.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you open PROGRAM\Periods.c you can check and change the period-dependent nation relations there. Should be relatively simple to do.

It isn't quite possible to change relations correctly during Free Play, so my suggestion would be to set up the Napoleonic default to resemble the end of the Napoleonic time period.

Aubrey can start in Revolutions and so can Nelson, with Hornblower for Napoleonic.
For Hornblower storyline purposes, we can change nation relations at appropriate times as you have already done.