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How to change fleet encounter distances

U

Unlucky Jack

Landlubber
Hi thanks for carrying on with mods for POTC.
I am wondering how I can get my fleet to enter into sea battles at at range that is outside of guns. When this mod thing was younger, build 10 or 11, NK showed me a way to increase the distance between the fleets rather than jumping into battle the moment you go from world map to sea. This may seem minor but if you thing about realizm, it would be unlikely that an enemy would allow you to get well within gun range before firing on you, especially if they have longer guns. Anyway I would like to enter sea battles outside of gun range mainly because it gets pretty boring when the enemy has no chance to turn and run before my guns take down their rigging. Please help me put some realizm back into the fight. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />
 
I don't really remember how to do this. Be sure to search the forum; there's a bunch of older posts dealing with the subject.
 
<!--quoteo(post=250108:date=Apr 12 2008, 02:56 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Apr 12 2008, 02:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really remember how to do this. Be sure to search the forum; there's a bunch of older posts dealing with the subject.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There wasn't really " a bunch" just one that actually answered the question.
Nk replied( He was not sure) to change the following line in worldmap_globals:
#define WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_ENCOUNTERS_SCALE 19.607843 //was 60 in build, 10.0 in stock. NK 05-04-30
Very nice but i'm having trouble figuring it out. Do I change 19.607843 to 10.0 to get stock distances and do I also have to change the line above it which is: #define WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE 19.607843 ?? What did he mean was 60 in build? any guesses?
Can I assume that reint will enable this change?
It seems odd but with all the documented changes from build to build that this particular mod that has such an impact on sea battles, this particular mod goes undocumented.
Doesn't anyone know how to undo this change? I'd hate to think I have to go back to stock just to figure this out.

Post script:
I applied the suggested changes from NK and had no effect after reinit. Odd thing though, Since changing my difficulty level, sea encounters now start broadsides at about 50 yards regardless of my position on the world map. and the enemy always seems to begin with Kipples already loaded so my sails don't last long enough to get any distance.
This is another case pointing to the importance of documenting even the smallest of changes AS THEY ARE MADE, and not trying to remember them later on. As much as we would all like to think we will still be around, even the most key modder may just leave. NK and his distance mod is a good example.
I will load the stock game seperatly and try to find how distance is controlled. Is build 10 available anywhere? I think this is where NK originally modded the starting distance and may have left a clue in the text.
 
Well after serveral, nay many hours, of skullduggery I have found the original posted solution.
It can be found here: <a href="http://www.forum.thelib.com/index.php?topic=999.0" target="_blank">http://www.forum.thelib.com/index.php?topic=999.0</a>
Now to hope the mods aren't so altered that it no longer works.
 
<!--quoteo(post=250239:date=Apr 13 2008, 07:30 AM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 13 2008, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well after serveral, nay many hours, of skullduggery I have found the original posted solution.
It can be found here: <a href="http://www.forum.thelib.com/index.php?topic=999.0" target="_blank">http://www.forum.thelib.com/index.php?topic=999.0</a>
Now to hope the mods aren't so altered that it no longer works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I suspected the fixes suggested way back when no longer have much effect. I can get the extended compass to work but fleet encounters still drop me within spitting distance of the enemy. It is also odd that regardless of my angle of attack on the world map, I find my self in a precarious situation instead. For example, If on the world map I place the friendly or neutral fleet parallel between me and the enemy, half the time I find my self "crossing the T" in the middle of the friendly fleet's line upon entering sea map. This so called mod is starting to feel more and more like an under achieving bug. I gotta say this would be a whole lot easier if I actually understood the code at work here. It also doesn't help that the original file structure isn't intact and we have mods built ontop of other mods. My guess is that its impossible to fix now by anyone other than the person who originally wrote the "mod" or maybe Akela themselves. Damit, I was just starting to like this game again too.
 
Did you set the value to 10 or to 60? I think you need to set it to 60, otherwise the encounter distance gets smaller instead of larger, which you do not want.
 
I tried this now and setting it to 60 indeed does greatly increase the encounter distance. So much actually that during my test, I could hardly see the enemy ship because of some slight haze. The main problem though is that you can freely go back to map sailing mode at this distance, which means that if you're overpowered, fleeing becomes very <i>easy</i>.

Of course you can then also increase the MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER value in InternalSettings.h, but this also causes problems, because then sometimes when you're on one side of an island after leaving port and there's some enemies on the other side, you still can't go to map sailing mode because enemies are within the set range. We had once set this value to 1000, but reset it back to 500 because of this reason. This is probably also the reason why the WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE value is no longer 60, but has been set to 19.6. It's still more than the original stock game's value of 10.0.

Perhaps you can tweak these values a bit to get something that gives a better game experience for you but doesn't cause the gameplay issues I mentioned. If you find a good combination of values, please tell us so we can use those as Build defaults. We know there's plenty of people who would like to start their battles at a greater distance.
 
Good work Pieter. While you were checking that out, I was mucking around with the stock game trying different things and came to the same conclusions with the hope they would still work in the mod. Oddly enough, I had tried earlier on my 13.1.2 version to change it to 19.6 but it didn't seem to do anything. Perhaps I just didn't reinit. I think setting it to 20 or 30 should be sufficient.
I was aware of the issues with MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER values and didn't mess with them. Oddly enough the comment in the file states that the stock value was 500 but it was actually 400. I suspect with WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE set to 20, 600 would be a good value without causing too many issues except around smaller islands.

I'm wondering if anyone can explain what this string from worldmap_globals does?
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_MIN 1000
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_POW 0.5
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_COEFF 31.622776601683793319988935444327 // must be MIN ^ POW
It appears to be from the Inez mod. I'm more curious than anything. Two things about this stumped me, First what is POW and second, the statement "must be MIN ^ POW" anyway I decided that because it was part of Inez , it probable had little to do with what I was looking for.
Well I think this has been solved so I'll go back to lurking and playing now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />
 
MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER set to 600
WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE set to 80
These values have given me the effect that I was looking for. There is however one small issue. Cannon ranges seem to change in proportion. For example, my 32lb's were quite capable of hitting at distances of 1270 yards according to my spyglass. Likewise the enemy had extended range as well.
I chose 80 because when joining existing battles ( for example france,neutral vs pirates), 60 was leaving me well within aggressor range, that is to say, The pirates would stop targeting france and fire on me even if france was lined up between us. Going to 80 made me less of a concern and I could spec the battle for a while before commiting to engage.
I'm thinking I might even go as far out as 100 and the disable flags on the world map. This would be akin to spoting sails on the horizon and having to pursue to determine friend or foe. There isn't much out there that can outrun my light battleship, and because my companion light MOW can't keep up either( its a good 2 knots slower), I would have to decide to engage alone and wait for my back up, or order the MOW to attack and back him up.
So now maybe you can see why it was so important to me to find and make these changes. It makes a fundamental change to sea engagements which is the main reason I play this game, I love to do age of sail naval tactics, not just swap broadsides and hack my way through boarding. Now, most of the time, it becomes very hard to capture a ship in a condition worth keeping, without takeing huge damage my self ( which is economically unvieable). I have the surrender mod turned way down, 40 I think, which results in very few surrenders from the enemy. Oddly enough allies or neutrals surrender to the enemy way more that the enemy surrenders to me, even when they are alone, outgunned and stripped of rigging they still try to run, I'm not sure whether these pirates are brave or just too stupid to live <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> . Come to think of it, I may have to increase the value to 50.( I had it turned way down cause I got sick of not being able to loot a ship).
Anyway I know there are a few others out there who wanted to put some space between themselves and the enemy, so enjoy and thanks for the help in solving the mystery.
Now all thats left is figuring out why gun ranges extend and then all will be perfect.
 
<!--quoteo(post=250381:date=Apr 14 2008, 06:25 AM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 14 2008, 06:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oddly enough the comment in the file states that the stock value was 500 but it was actually 400.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Perhaps 500 was the value in the previous Build version then? I don't remember. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=250381:date=Apr 14 2008, 06:25 AM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 14 2008, 06:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm wondering if anyone can explain what this string from worldmap_globals does?
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_MIN 1000
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_POW 0.5
#define FLEETSEA_DISTSCL_COEFF 31.622776601683793319988935444327 // must be MIN ^ POW<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I have NO idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=250464:date=Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER set to 600
WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE set to 80
These values have given me the effect that I was looking for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What about being able to enter back into map mode after engaging, thus making it too easy too flee? Or otherwise, when you do get in an engagement, making it too hard to flee. Especially in, for example, the escape from Oxbay mission during the main quest.

<!--quoteo(post=250464:date=Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is however one small issue. Cannon ranges seem to change in proportion. For example, my 32lb's were quite capable of hitting at distances of 1270 yards according to my spyglass. Likewise the enemy had extended range as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->WAAAAT??? That sounds REALLY weird. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=250464:date=Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM:name=Unlucky Jack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Unlucky Jack @ Apr 14 2008, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=250464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So now maybe you can see why it was so important to me to find and make these changes. It makes a fundamental change to sea engagements which is the main reason I play this game, I love to do age of sail naval tactics, not just swap broadsides and hack my way through boarding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You play Build 13, right? You might just want to install the <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.net/potc/ccc%20experimentals/Directsail_jan25.zip" target="_blank">DirectSail</a> mod on top. It allows you to sail from island to island in 3D sailing mode without requiring the worldmap. Also you will encounter ships along the way, so then you can use your spyglass to identify the ships and decide to engage or not. Also you could encounter other surprises along the route. Be sure to read the accompanying ReadMe.
 
Time consuming? Definitly. But you've got the time speed up buttons to help you. And you can turn it on/off ingame with the 0 key. Be sure to read the accompanying ReadMe. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
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