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Line ship, war ship or battleship?

J

jip2

Sailor Apprentice
Currently I have line ship and I like it a lot but for a class 1 ship it is a bit weak. I could get a warship or a battleship easily but I don't know which of these would be the best or would the line ship be good enough. I'm looking for firepower, speed and good turn rate. Which ship would fit the best to these qualifications?
 
turn rate is always low with such ships. but that's all i know, as i don't have the game.
 
<!--quoteo(post=185168:date=Mar 9 2007, 02:29 AM:name=Joonas612)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Joonas612 @ Mar 9 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]185168[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Currently I have line ship and I like it a lot but for a class 1 ship it is a bit weak. I could get a warship or a battleship easily but I don't know which of these would be the best or would the line ship be good enough. I'm looking for firepower, speed and good turn rate. Which ship would fit the best to these qualifications?
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<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" /> Any ship from Frigate upwards! I've taken Forts with a Frigate,
but a Battleship has more firepower and you can have a second ship
to help, if ships are a bit on the small side! And some Forts are stronger
than others, especialy the ones on Gov. islands! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=185170:date=Mar 8 2007, 05:29 PM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Mar 8 2007, 05:29 PM) [snapback]185170[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
turn rate is always low with such ships. but that's all i know, as i don't have the game.
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at the moment ive got a man o war, a line ship, a frigate and a war galleon, ive taken over a few ports using these quite easily however earlier in the game i relied on my trusty brig for a lot!
 
If you must have a behemoth that will turn then the warship is what you want.

edit: the lineship is horrible for turning almost worse than the manowar if I remember correctly
 
In an attempt to settle this, I ran a series of speed trials. The Supermod allows you to buy any ship anywhere, so I did - I bought a frigate, a line ship, a warship and a battleship. And I already had a man o' war. For the purposes of the test, all ships had empty cargo holds, canvas sails and copper-plated hulls. (That's because all the newly purchased ships came with leaky hulls! You can't repair a hull which has 100% hit points, so the only way to patch up the leaks was to plate the hulls.) All ships had full crews for their tests because before testing a ship, I returned to port, switched to the ship in question, then transferred crew to it from the man o' war.

To my surprise, the frigate was the slowest! It could only manage 2.3 knots with a following wind; the bigger ships could all manage 3 knots. The man o' war managed 3.2 knots. However, the class 1 ships take longer to accelerate to their maximum speeds. especially the man o' war. All ships managed 1.4-1.5 knots when sailing across the wind. The wind was a little lower when I tested the frigate, but the difference wasn't enough to account for the frigate's low sailing speed.

Turn rates were no surprise. I timed how long it took the ships to do a full 360 degree turn. The frigate managed it in 54 seconds, the line ship and warship both took slightly over a minute, the battleship and man o' war both took slightly over a minute and a half. The other problem with the bigger ships was to <i>stop</i> them turning! I was pressing the "D" key throughout the whole turn, and the larger ships took longer to start turning visibly. When the ship was pointing back on its original course, I took my finger off the "D" key and the big ships kept turning for a while. Even pressing "A" to try to reverse the turn took time to have an effect. Which means the difference in turn rates will be even greater if you're trying to turn to a specific heading and have to allow for this by taking your finger off the "A" or "D" key before you're pointing where you want to go.

Conclusion: the frigate is the best balanced ship. It can't match the larger ships' firepower or even match them in a straight race, but it can out-accelerate them and out-turn them easily. If you want a class 1 ship, don't mess about with lesser types, get the man o' war.
 
nice one with the testing! and yea i hate the oversteer on some of the ships!
personally i found that the lineship turns better than my man o war.
personally i found that the situation decides what ship to use, for example if your taking colonys i recomend man o war, however if u wnt the speed and turning to catch up to a ship in a naval battle i still loved the brig, infact i may buy one for my fleet. is it possible to have mnore than 4 ships? i havent tried to capture a 4th one and ive never purahcesed one
 
<!--quoteo(post=185275:date=Mar 9 2007, 10:10 PM:name=manchesterutd99)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manchesterutd99 @ Mar 9 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]185275[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->personally i found that the situation decides what ship to use, for example if your taking colonys i recomend man o war, however if u wnt the speed and turning to catch up to a ship in a naval battle i still loved the brig, infact i may buy one for my fleet. is it possible to have mnore than 4 ships? i havent tried to capture a 4th one and ive never purahcesed one
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, you can have up to 5 ships provided your Tactics skill is 10. I only keep two ships permanently, a frigate for general purpose and a man o' war for attacking forts. The man o' war also provides extra cargo space for looted cargo as well as a ready supply of replacement crew. By only having two ships, I can capture up to three prizes, and frequently do. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />

Incidentally, the frigate which I captured and which I now use as my flagship is significantly faster than the ones I find in shipyards. And that's before I upgraded the sails. (You can only buy frigates from shipyards if you're running the Supermod, but you can at least see them, greyed out, in the stock game and snigger or drool at the data.)
 
The frigate is probably my favorite vessel. But, if you're looking for a little bit more fire power the warship is a compromise between speed, turn speed, and fire power. When using a larger ship I usually prefer to use the Man O War. It may not have the best turn speed, but it actually has very good speed and has awesome fire power.
 
Out of the three my personal favourite has to be the Warship, ok its not as heavy hitting as the battleship, but it has a much faster turn of speed and is quick and easier to manouver.

The lineship isn't a vessel I have used that often simply because I usually jump straight from frigate to warship and then stay there.

Man o wars are too cumbersome, battleships are good but slow turning and hard to slow down, warships are a good all round choice, lineship seems a little weak.
 
Recently I encountered a French punitive squadron comprising a corvette and a man o' war. The French took one look at me and decided to run for it.

The man o' war was amazingly fast - it even outran its own corvette! In fact, sailing my frigate, I managed to capture the corvette, thanks to silk sails and a skill 10 navigation officer. The French man o' war must have had the same.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=186079:date=Mar 23 2007, 09:21 AM:name=Grey Roger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grey Roger @ Mar 23 2007, 09:21 AM) [snapback]186079[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Recently I encountered a French punitive squadron comprising a corvette and a man o' war. The French took one look at me and decided to run for it.

The man o' war was amazingly fast - it even outran its own corvette! In fact, sailing my frigate, I managed to capture the corvette, thanks to silk sails and a skill 10 navigation officer. The French man o' war must have had the same.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Aye, they can be very fast in the wind. I remember when I first saw a punitive squadron consiting of a man o war, a lineship and a battleship. I was in a corvette and my other vessel was just a recently captured sloop. I was amazed at how fast the battleship not only chased down and dispatched the sloop but then came flying past me, if it wasn't for some nifty manouvering from the broadside I would have been a gonna.
 
<!--quoteo(post=185215:date=Mar 9 2007, 05:29 AM:name=Grey Roger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grey Roger @ Mar 9 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]185215[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an attempt to settle this, I ran a series of speed trials. The Supermod allows you to buy any ship anywhere, so I did - I bought a frigate, a line ship, a warship and a battleship. And I already had a man o' war. For the purposes of the test, all ships had empty cargo holds, canvas sails and copper-plated hulls. (That's because all the newly purchased ships came with leaky hulls! You can't repair a hull which has 100% hit points, so the only way to patch up the leaks was to plate the hulls.) All ships had full crews for their tests because before testing a ship, I returned to port, switched to the ship in question, then transferred crew to it from the man o' war.

To my surprise, the frigate was the slowest! It could only manage 2.3 knots with a following wind; the bigger ships could all manage 3 knots. The man o' war managed 3.2 knots. However, the class 1 ships take longer to accelerate to their maximum speeds. especially the man o' war. All ships managed 1.4-1.5 knots when sailing across the wind. The wind was a little lower when I tested the frigate, but the difference wasn't enough to account for the frigate's low sailing speed.

Turn rates were no surprise. I timed how long it took the ships to do a full 360 degree turn. The frigate managed it in 54 seconds, the line ship and warship both took slightly over a minute, the battleship and man o' war both took slightly over a minute and a half. The other problem with the bigger ships was to <i>stop</i> them turning! I was pressing the "D" key throughout the whole turn, and the larger ships took longer to start turning visibly. When the ship was pointing back on its original course, I took my finger off the "D" key and the big ships kept turning for a while. Even pressing "A" to try to reverse the turn took time to have an effect. Which means the difference in turn rates will be even greater if you're trying to turn to a specific heading and have to allow for this by taking your finger off the "A" or "D" key before you're pointing where you want to go.

Conclusion: the frigate is the best balanced ship. It can't match the larger ships' firepower or even match them in a straight race, but it can out-accelerate them and out-turn them easily. If you want a class 1 ship, don't mess about with lesser types, get the man o' war.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And that's simply because the larger ships have more area of canvas to spread and taller masts where there is stronger wind. If only they would let us set studdingsails... then the beauty of these ships would be uncomparable!
Here's a couple of other hints, I don't have this game and don't know if these have an effect, but it does in real life:

A longer ship can sail faster, it doesn't spend as much time ploughing up, over, and back down waves, it straddles them.
I know this isn't a factor in any game, but the ship's hog effects you too. Due to the irregular shape of the bow and stern, a ship's ends sag creating a curve in the keel called a hog. The <i>Victory</i> had a 3 ft hog upon her launch! Now, the master of the hog problem was the USN, they build the <i>Constitution</i> with "diagional riders", beams that pushed apart the ribs of the ship along the skeleton of the hull, thus pulling up the bow and stern and reducing her hog to a mere couple of inches. Most of "Old Ironsides" is original and she still hasn't seen a change in her hog... all this since 1797.
Pretty cool, eh?
 
Well seems as everything has been said already <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> so i'll just say my favorites.
I'm a frigate fan, so that is my ship of choice, however if you wish to take over forts, a Men-o-war would be best(took over 5 or so forts with only one MoW).


PS. I dunno what tactic you use to capture forts, but i just sail the MoW infront the fort and start spinning it till the fort dies.
 
Frigates. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" /> Have my vote. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> Fast enough to chase down the smaller ships. Enough firepower to repel and bring down the bigger ones.
 
Well, I guess I will put my 2 cents worth in. Personally, for the Class 1 ships, I prefer either the LineShip or the Man of War. However, I only use those as a "base ship", for lack of a better word. I use the Corvette as my main ship and the Class 1 ship for storing extra food, ammo and experienced crew. So, when I need to replace lost crew on my Corvette, I take them from my Man of War. That way, their experience level remains Ideal. And since the crew of the Man of War is so large, when I replace what I took for my Corvette, their experience level only drops to Masterful or Highly-Skilled. If I take a 3rd ship in my squadron, I take a Frigate; its a nice balance between the Corvette and Man of War. (In the old SeaDogs game, the LineShip was a Class 2 and perhaps the most versitile ship in the game and it looked really good!)

As for taking forts, I can do that quite easily with my Corvette. I just slowly sail in toward the fort till I am just out of range of their guns, raise my sails and open fire from the deck (1st person). You can shoot farther from 1st person then from 3rd. With a large number of cannonballs (over 3000), I sit there and pound the fort with impunity until it falls. Also, using a Corvette, you get 1000 Exp Pts per cannon destroyed instead of just 500 with a Class 1 ship.

I have also found that you can have as many ships in your squadron you want, regardless of your Tactics Level. I have either 2 or 3 ships in my squadron and my Tactics Level is still only the original 2 from the start. You just have to capture them. Its also a great way to get ships that are above the Class you are allowed to command. For example, I usually capture my Corvette at Rank 3, much sooner than I could ever buy one. You do take a penalty on some of your Skill Levels, but the actual effects are negligable.

Oh, and Commador JPJ, not meaning to be a pain, but according to Ben Langdorf, the naval architect who supervised the last overhaul of the USS Constitution just before her 200th birthday, it has only about 20% of her original timbers. This is because she is still in her natural element- water. And when you conder that, I think it is amazing that there is even that much of the original ship left. Now on the other hand, the HMS Victory; which is in permenant drydock, has over 80% of her original timbers. However, you are quite correct about the Constitution's incredible hog. Joshua Humphreys definitely knew how to design a ship!!

Note on Nautical Terms: Flagship does not necessarily mean the best or primary ship in a squadron, it means that there is a Flag Officer (an Admiral) on board- hence the name.
 
<!--quoteo(post=189774:date=Apr 14 2007, 03:27 PM:name=Mary Read)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mary Read @ Apr 14 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]189774[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I guess I will put my 2 cents worth in. Personally, for the Class 1 ships, I prefer either the LineShip or the Man of War. However, I only use those as a "base ship", for lack of a better word. I use the Corvette as my main ship and the Class 1 ship for storing extra food, ammo and experienced crew. So, when I need to replace lost crew on my Corvette, I take them from my Man of War. That way, their experience level remains Ideal. And since the crew of the Man of War is so large, when I replace what I took for my Corvette, their experience level only drops to Masterful or Highly-Skilled. If I take a 3rd ship in my squadron, I take a Frigate; its a nice balance between the Corvette and Man of War. (In the old SeaDogs game, the LineShip was a Class 2 and perhaps the most versitile ship in the game and it looked really good!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here, except I normally have the frigate as my main ship and the man o' war as the support ship. The frigate isn't quite as agile as the corvette but holds significantly more crew, which means when I'm boarding something big like a war galleon or man o' war, the deck battle isn't quite as frantic. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for taking forts, I can do that quite easily with my Corvette. I just slowly sail in toward the fort till I am just out of range of their guns, raise my sails and open fire from the deck (1st person). You can shoot farther from 1st person then from 3rd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Odd - I find that no matter what I do, the fort's guns can outrange mine, since they're 36 pounders to my 24 pounders, and in AoP bigger guns have longer range. They also have the advantage of being mounted higher.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have also found that you can have as many ships in your squadron you want, regardless of your Tactics Level. I have either 2 or 3 ships in my squadron and my Tactics Level is still only the original 2 from the start. You just have to capture them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't work for me; if I only have tactics 2 or 3, AoP won't let me capture a ship, it complains that my tactics skill only allows me to command one ship. Worse, if I have tactics skill 4 and I'm escorting a ship, that ship counts as one of the two I'm allowed to command, so I still can't capture an enemy ship. Which means anyone wanting me to escort them had better pay very well for the privilege because they're costing me the value of a prize ship and its cargo. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />
 
Hey GR,

I know the Frigate is a bit more robust with almost twice the crew, but I enjoy the challenge of using a smaller ship. Besides, the smaller the ship you use, the more ExPts you earn. And it reminds me of playing the original SeaDogs and trying to take Beltron's MMOW with the smallest ship you can. (I personally know someone who successfully boarded and defeated Belton using only a SLOOP!)

Regarding taking forts, the reason I am able to out-range fort guns could be because I start the game with town size set at Village. That way the forts are smaller and so are their guns. However, I have taken a couple forts with 32 pounders- for some reason the AI was using bombs instead of cannonballs.

And I have no idea why you are unable to have multiple ships regardless of your Tactics level. Are you using SuperMod? If so, that might be why; the Mod might correct that inconsistency.
 
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