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More "real RPG" elements

superdurnius

Corsair
Coordinator
3D Artist
Storm Modeller
I know, that Corsairs first gender is see-battle simulator, but it also has lot's of Role-Play-Game parts, especially when you're walking on land.

I really wish, that new part of corsairs series have these "things" from other my played RPG's that I dear to call "Perfect RPG":

<ol type='1'><li>Starting Character choosing. I meen something like background. When you create your new character (if it'll be creatable) you can chose you nation, age, name, profession (as in PotC: adventurer, merchant), before-game history (background).
But I meen not simply choosing some text in character screen. Those choosiness should effect gameplay if not totally then a little for at least. I meen if there is some feature only for 80-years-old England merchant, that feature won't be possible for 20-years-old adventurer from France. And before-game history could effect your starting (skills, stats, money, ship, equipment).
</li><li>Stats system should be (I think) more RPG-like. I meen there should grow up stats as Charisma, Strength, Perception and ect. Charisma will effect Bartering and leadership. Fighting abilities is raised by strength and dexterity. Navigation by Perception, Intelligence... Luck will rise everything by a little.. I'm not saying that everything should be like I listed here or that stats should have that kind of names. I simply want to explain, that I'd like that so called "body stats" is rising and effecting "profession stats". And "profession stats" aren't risible in another way. If you want to raise your fighting abilities you have to train your strength, and if you already strongest man in the Caribbean, you should start raising your quickens and chance of blocking like rising dexterity for example.
</li><li>More possibility in interacting with other people. Than in almost every question in dialogue should be at least two possible answers. And even more, that appears by skills or stats. Example:

- Here is your money, Captain Name. 1500 coins.

Possible answers.
- Thank you, Sir. It was pleasure to work with you. <i><-- Good answer</i>
- Hell, you could could show more gratitude for what I have done for you. But that's better than nothing. <i><-- Bad answer</i>
- [Charisma] Could you pay a little more? That sum won't even cover my expenses for your task. <i><-- if Charisma high (neutral)</i>
- [Strength] Listen, pay me more or I'll smash your face into a million of pieces. <i><-- if Strength high (bad)</i>
- [Intelligence] Well, I know, that you get much more profit because of my perfect work. I think you could rise a bit my part for further possible "good works"

That is just example, but I think you all got the point, no?
</li><li> Possibility to rise unique character. I meen one think, that I never like on any of Corsairs game, that there you can rise so called perfect character. All stats in maximum, only swords and pistols, so you're sure to have best blade and pistol.
What I want is that there could be different styles of weapons and fighting styles. I know, that most popular style of fighting on those times was fencing, but you can't fence with axe or Saber. Why only use one set of weapons (?) I meen blade and pistol. I think there should be possibility to choose from axe, blade, two blades(axes (high strength)). One huge pistol with large damage or bunch of small pistols on your chest, that require huge character quickness (stats) for fast changing between them in middle of a fight.
</li><li> And reputation with relations. I understand why that is created, but I think that is not enough. i think you should have lot's of reputations. You should have different reputation in different city. After that different relations. Then something like "aura"(stupid name), good or bad (this thing also should open some dialogue options).
Why? I can explain in example:
You are in war with England, but you deadly need to enter one of England cities. You are good man, with good reputation on that city. City guards (and ships) will attack you if they note you're there. But Barman, shipyard owner, merchant or simple civilians will talk to you normally, even if they will discover your identity. But if you'll have bad reputation on that city, all civilians detected you will call for guards. And if you're bad person you can use dialogue options as threatening and etc.
</li><li> possible different endings, not only gameplays. Or at least different movies to show your ending.</li></ol>

That's it for what I can figure for now, but I can say, every game, that at least have some of these features comes to my mind for at least 2-3 weak while I'll complete storyline first time. And after that I'll complete game more 2-10 times to reach different possible endings, or at least see different possibility of completing quests (as happened with Star Wars: KOTOR series, Arcanum: oSaMO, Hitman Series and etc (Hitman had RPG elements on possibility for quest complete ways)
 
All of your suggestions are eminently within the realm of what most of us would like to see I believe.

Myself, I'd like to see a game startup similar to Oblivion where you have complete control over your characters looks, starting stats and perks.

I'd love to see a wide range of abilities and skills that you can choose from and completely open world, very similar to Oblivion or Gothic, where loading screens are as minimal as possible.

Thats just for starters.

I'll post more on these subjects later.

Cap'n Drow
 
perhaps its possible to create your own face, like Two Worlds or Oblivion. so every gamer can create themself!

missions on land could be like Sid Meiers Pirates. Dancing and fencing, marry a lady and such things. Wich Pirate would not be a Gouvernor?
not every mission must be end in Blood. More trading options would be interesting.
 
that's also exactly what I ment. more options in a ways of gaming, so I could play7 game for 20 times, and I still want to repeat...
 
I absolutely agree with the above. As far as I'm concerned, real gameplay value comes from having as many options as possible.
Starting character options, ship and weapon choice options, dialog options, different ways of achieving your goal.
And the most important thing is that each option should have its advantages and disadvantages; there are no right and wrong choices.
Or at least, there are several choices that are good and several that are bad, with each choice having a different effect.

It should not be possible to get your character to be full developed; to have 10 in all skills and have all abilities, to speak in PotC terms.
There should not be a "best weapon" or "best ship" or "best route".

A bit unrelated, but maybe not, is <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=13037" target="_blank">my comment on the notion that the game would/should be first and foremost a sea battle simulator</a>.
 
I totally agree with the point of SuperDurnius, specially the skills related dialoglines for quests and people interaction. This reminds me a lot of NWN which I like a lot and if SD4 is gonna be a Pirates RPG must have this kind of features.

Customization of the character is a very good point that I consider better than having 2-3 characters presets to play with... so everybody finish using the same characters thing that is plain boring. The addition of renowned historical characters is a good idea, but not so if you´re gonna play that kind of character, because people tend not to role play and act/play like this character behave, they only took the mysticism of this character, feel proud for having such avatar but behave as they want... So my thoughts go for personal character creation, selecting profession, appearance (that can be changed while equipping other equipment), nation, background... and renowned/historical characters act as NPC´s that you can interact with them if your actions/"karma", political relations and player´s own backgrounds or stats with different reactions... for example, you´re playing as a young pirate, good on fencing and strong character... the ingenuity of youth can be a handicap if the character´s intelligence/wisdom is not so high, so your character can be betrayed at the end of a quest (like Blackbeard did with Bonnet), but if you´re playing with an older character with better intelligence/wisdom, your character (not yourself, because it´s RolePlaying) can anticipate the betrayal and try to not being fooled... different directions and lines IN the same quest regarding of the kind of character played. Also there would be some interesting questlines (nice rewards and playability) available ONLY to one kind of characters type or nationality... taking CoAS as example, the Isabella quest in my opinion should only be available to Diego Espinosa character because this mission involves travelling in the spanish ports and Isabella is also spaniard; the Ascold quest (the one with the killers on dungeons) should be available only to adventurers characters...

In addition, a kind of evolution on stats (growing/decreasing) system related to age can be more realistic, so a young character starts with high stats on Power, Dexterity... that makes him a good fighter according to the plenitude of physical power (18-30 years old) but with low stats for Intelligence/Wisdom, Knowledge... that makes him no good commander at all, maybe a decent captain for a small/medium ship but not enough for bigger ships neither fleets (unless the young captain is a young navy officer formed on a nations navy, in which case can have better commanding and knowledge stats than any other plain youth officer...), on the other side, an older captain with experience has become less agile for combat (less power and reflexes) but has the knowledge to sail better (better wind understanding and get the best of the ship) and command authority (to maintain a coordinated fleet), so he doesn´t need to trust in his physical abilities, only in the fleet he commands or using his better knowledge of the elements on his side (if he must run, of course)... if such system of Stats evolving according to the character played´s age, it´ll be near impossible to see full developed character maxed on every stat, there will be a balance and a very big range of options to choose to start and evolve.

<b>BEST REGARDS</b>
 
I definitly like your age thought. That way, the game starts out as being fairly action-packed, but as it progresses,
you'll end up using your wits more and more. Something like that should work pretty well for players who want to have a quick start.
Then by the time their strength falters, they'll hopefully have gotten to liking the game so much,
that they're willing to go with the more in-depth thoughtful gameplay that comes later.
And if you don't care for that, you can always start another game.

I agree that it's better to be able to select your character and traits rather than a specific storyline.
Then depending on your traits, certain options will and won't be available to you. That is rather complicated though,
which is why we did use the selectable storylines for the PotC Build Mod.
 
I'm all for aging characters <i>if</i> it's an optional feature that can be turned off.
 
Yes, I don't like it. Call me a munchkin but I like to build my character from a complete wuss who has trouble fighting rats in a cellar into a superpowerful force of nature capable of taking out entire cities with his pinky. That's just part of the game for me. Games are about fantasy and wish-fulfillment. I don't fantasize about being old and weak and frail.
Also, for a character to age realistically you'd have to have <i>decades</i> pass in the game, which would not be very fun or would necessitate some form of extreme time compression <i>and</i> you'd have ot have the world age with you. Otherwise you'd just end up with another Fable, where you start as a little snot getting a present for his big sis and end the game as a wrinkly old man saving his teenage sister's neck. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> That's a huge amount of programming... to what point and purpose, exactly? I have yet to see a game where aging actually enhances gameplay in any way, so far in all that I've seen it's either purely cosmetic or acts as an arbitrary time limit. I'm not a fan of those. About the only game where aging actually makes some sense is The Sims, but a) that's a simulation specifically focused on living a life and b) even then the primary goal for me became raking in aspiration points quickly enough to be able to afford life elixirs and thus be able to live forever.
 
But aging can be interesting, too. When I played the original Pirates! I always tried to accomplish as much as I could in the shortest time possible knowing that certain things weren´t feasible any longer after you hit the 40s. This added some sort of tension throughout the whole game that I´ve never felt again (ok, fable 1 had that too but that game sucked balls imho). It also had the benefit that each char had a distinctive feel to it. But I do understand that this can´t be applied to all RPGs, especially the ones with 100s of hours of playing time.


Regards,
bava
 
I do like the idea of having an aging process involved.

Like Bava, after playing the original Pirates, there was something about that added tension of knowing your time is limited that just made success that much sweeter.

I do agree though, it should be optional. Perhaps a choice you make during setup for that particular character.

Cap'n Drow
 
Or making it really slowly. In fable 1 you were already old in 2 years (ingame) So first you were young and slim and within 2 game years you were white and scared and wrinkled.
 
YES! I like what SuperDunius propose. If I had to choose, I would favour development of your character before initial customization.
In the long run, it is not _that_fun to play and be like <insert your favourite hero here>
Playing a character that reflects yourself would not make it someone else interacting with the game and characters, it is you! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

There must be more aspect to adding social skills and personality to a character, than just saying yes or no to a quest. But when it comes to RPG, I am a newbie and dont know what other elemets from the classic Dungeons and Dragons terms, we could use. I like the textsystem we have, it reminds me of early text-based adventure games on the C64.

Skill in dancing and charming could be fun, sure.
Maybe duels, too (if your character has grown a bit too charming and dancing, your rivals will stand in line to kill you)?
Age also sounds really good, I thought we already employed it with the periods mod <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

[offtopic]
I would like to discuss some upcoming problems(and suggestions for solving these), we might run into when expanding territories to the rest of the world. Should I add a new topic for that in "Corsairs 4" forums or should I continue those in the thread, yo ho ho made?
[/offtopic]
 
<!--quoteo(post=331808:date=Jun 22 2009, 06:09 PM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas the Terror @ Jun 22 2009, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or making it really slowly. In fable 1 you were already old in 2 years (ingame) So first you were young and slim and within 2 game years you were white and scared and wrinkled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It certainly shouldn't be quick, that's for sure! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=331821:date=Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Age also sounds really good, I thought we already employed it with the periods mod <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, we don't. You don't actually age in the PotC Build mod, though you do change model to old man at some point. But that's more a joke. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=331821:date=Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to discuss some upcoming problems(and suggestions for solving these), we might run into when expanding territories to the rest of the world. Should I add a new topic for that in "Corsairs 4" forums or should I continue those in the thread, yo ho ho made?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->General Game World Concept thread?
 
The aging concept can be something to prevent maxed characters, that way on character creation, depending on age some skill caps can be used, for youngest players a cap of max Insight and Authority skills of 6, Leadership, Sailing, Accuracy, Cannons and Grapling skills of 60 max [so he must depend on Officers for better sailing and naval combat].... oldest players max Power and Reaction of 6, and all weapons skills (except pistols) of 60 max... those caps EVEN with trinkets that adds bonuses.... in the middle range between youngest and oldest those caps should be proportional. And not only on age, also on prefession choosed...

Real aging, visual effects of time passing and hyper-quick-as-a-rabbit Calendar... that´s another history, very hard to achieve properly...so the ball is for developers, isn´t it?

Also, from the players experience, it will be harder to play... every one play as he/she wants, someones preffer combat specialty and all for fighting, others preffer to play the merchant side, others the nations-navy side.... if characters REALLY AGES it´ll be a pain down there for the players because they´ll be forced to play in very different ways regarding his/her character´s age... thing that is realistic, but not very practic from the players side, so a cap on the initial creation is more than enough.... after all the purpose of all of this is to NOT find maxed characters and see irreal situations (high level merchants fighting better than medium level fighters, and younger characters being better commanders than older character that seems to have more experience in life that those younger scoundrels).

For the Navy questlines, the actual questlines on CoAS for my taste is very short and the rewards are very low... National-Navy characters should be fine on sailing and combat skills, but should suck on commerce.... maybe the impossibility to buy ships, so the characters depends on his rank in the Navy to have a kind of ship... the character progresses, he gains ranks and acces better ships... then he can command a small fleet (in which he can use the ship he wants from the fleet ships, of course)... also no need to contract sailors, the navy should provide his ships crew, or I´m wrong?

<b>BEST REGARDS</b>
 
Ohhh... I totally forgot about this... Clothing affecting stealth!!!
So trying to stealth on spanish ports with a Dutch flag, dressing as a dutchman should help to infiltrate with succes... also logic situations as a character trying to infiltrate a port claiming he´s a trader from a friendly nation but his ship is a fully loaded Military Corvette or Frigate... doesn´t make any sense.

Possibilities of sieges by land as real pirates do, not only frontal navy sieges to the fort.

<b>BEST REGARDS</b>
 
<!--quoteo(post=331856:date=Jun 22 2009, 10:26 PM:name=Tahlendorf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tahlendorf @ Jun 22 2009, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ohhh... I totally forgot about this... Clothing affecting stealth!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We already have that:

<img src="http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7024/stealthoutfit.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also logic situations as a character trying to infiltrate a port claiming he´s a trader from a friendly nation but his ship is a fully loaded Military Corvette or Frigate... doesn´t make any sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to mention if you have some of the quest officers. I have the musketeer and Workman from COAS and I can't help but laugh every time I walk up to a Spanish or Dutch guard and he goes "oh, you have the right flag, go right in", totally ignoring the two English redcoat goons beside me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
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