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More "real RPG" elements

<!--quoteo(post=331825:date=Jun 22 2009, 07:22 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 22 2009, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331825"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=331821:date=Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Age also sounds really good, I thought we already employed it with the periods mod <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, we don't. You don't actually age in the PotC Build mod, though you do change model to old man at some point. But that's more a joke. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=331821:date=Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 22 2009, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to discuss some upcoming problems(and suggestions for solving these), we might run into when expanding territories to the rest of the world. Should I add a new topic for that in "Corsairs 4" forums or should I continue those in the thread, yo ho ho made?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->General Game World Concept thread?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ok thanks.
 
@Sordid: yep, I know about the Rags clothing (as the merchant clothes that raise Commerce or the other clothes that I dont remember the name but raises Leadership)... but It only affect stats... nothing visual, the character 3D model is still using the same clothes as always... using a cuirass put an additional cuirass 3D model on the player, why not the additional clothing?
Also I see that doesn´t make any logic that a character uses some Rags for a stealth bonus coming as the captain of a decent ship... it seems that there weren´t too much detectives on the Caribbean.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

So my point in clothing go for different models for any kind of clothing, so visually you look like what you´re wearing... and trying to sneak in an enemy port under the flag-trick, also the character and his loyal officers should try to disguise themselves with clothes according to the flag sailed.
 
In Storm-engine terms, all different sets of clothing and all combinations would have to be pre-made.
However, in a new game, this should be more possible if coded correctly from the start.
 
always wanted your characters to grow as you leveled up, especially for mmos i thought it would be cool if you started out as a kid or teen and as you leveld you aged or grew based on how your stats were developed thought it would be a cool thing to have especially for an mmo.

but who really wants their character hitting old age while they are playing, and would that effect their stats? could you have a heart attack on the deck of your ship? nevermind that years fly by in this game do a nice quick tour around the area and by the time you get back to the start its been a year or more depending on the wind.

other than that an rpg defines itself to me, offering you choices especially hard choices, mass effect had a few brilliant moments, especially when you got to choose which of your crew members you are going to send to their death after you had spent a good chunk of the game getting to know them. fallout 3 had some potentially great moments but ruined them by "fake" choices, making it look like you had more than one path but however you did it you were still locked into whatever path they wanted you to take.

factions are important to me how your behavior effects the factions you interact with. STALKER had a great faction system, fallout 3 and beth games in general make factions useless, being the evilest meanest snake in the wastelands in fo3 made not a bit of difference in the game, you would still be working with the BoS good or evil, and evil they certainly should have shot you on sight, and given you an entire other path to choose if you went evil like destroying the brotherhood and working for the enclave.
 
In the Bartolomeu main quest in the PotC Build mod, the main character actually changes appearance as the quest progresses.
For Jack Sparrow, we're working on that too. So it can certainly be done.
 
Getting the latest Build 14 Alpha is certainly recommended to see what is possible with the current game engine.
We've managed some stuff that is quite impressive, some of which is still unreleased, since it needs to be fixed further.
But we're making good progress. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
yea i was almost tempted just to plug your mod into coas just to see what happens but not been that brave yet lol. beyond that i need to do some serious hard drive cleaning before i can install much of anything else.
 
Don't bother to try; it won't work. I tried that sort of stuff when AoP was released, but no luck.
PotC Build Mod would need to be ported to CoAS, which we're thinking of doing once Build 14 is finished.
 
nice i will wait 2 years then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />.
 
That'll be the LEAST time it'll take us. And until we finish Build 14, we won't decide for certain if we WILL actually port.
If you do have the PotC game discs, you would be well-served to at least give our current work a quick glance.
Even if it's just to get ideas for future modding/game-work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
Oh man.. I hate waiting. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
 
Don't need to wait for our current work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> I'd just think you'd move over to the newer game as soon as possible. Developing stuff for POTC and only then porting it over to COAS seems a little... redundant.
 
We completely ignored AoP when that was released. Also, porting unfinished code isn't the best idea.
Not to mention that porting would delay the release of Build 14 by at least two years or so.
Also most of the modders don't even HAVE CoAS and have some serious troubles getting it.
And we don't have many coders capable of working on such a port and the ones we do have are still working on other WIP mods for PotC.
See the <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=13287" target="_blank">Porting the Build Mod to CoAS?</a> thread, where we have discussed the matter.
 
Bottom line is I'm just going to have to wait. I hate waiting... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Anyway, back on topic... Lots of cool ideas floating around in the thread, but let's remember that cool is not the same thing as fun. For every idea that I read or come up with myself I ask myself: Will this actually affect the gameplay and if so will it make it more fun? Or is it just another little quirk that might prompt the player to go "oooh, that's cool" the first time they see it and become just annoying afterwards? Will it be fun not only the first time the player is required to interact with this feature but the tenth? And the hundredth? Thousandth? Or will it become a chore that you have to do so you can get to the fun part? Case in point, rats in COAS. And for that matter, the necessity to buy medicine. What's next, different types of food? You don't buy enough fruit, your sailors get scurvy and die? Just lump all of this into "supplies" and be done with it. Not to mention that the game obligingly informs you that food in the squadron will last for two weeks but won't actually reditribute it evenly among the ships for you, that you have to do yourself. Boring repetitive tasks are what computers are made for, don't make the player do them. We play pirate games because we want to sail around, blast stuff with our cannons, and cut people with our sabers. If we wanted to keep track of columns of numbers, we'd play Excel.

That very strongly relates to the whole aging thing. The problem is that "computer RPG" is a misnomer. There's no roleplaying involved, at best you have a bunch of predefined lines of dialog that you choose from and it's usually very easy to guess which is the 'correct' one. About the only game I've seen that somewhat resembles roleplaying is Planescape: Torment, all the others are basically action games, except instead of (or in addition to) better guns or swords you acquire better stats. But acquiring better ways to kill stuff and then utilizing them is still the only focus of the game, it's the only thing you actually <i>do</i>. All the rest is just an excuse for you to do it. When you play a game that actually keeps track of your kills, such as COAS, compare the number of enemies you've killed to the number of NPCs you've spoken to and it becomes crystal clear what the focus of the game is.

Now the character stat sheet is already pretty damn complex in COAS, with lots of numbers to keep track of. Aging that increases some of your stats and lowers others bumps that complexity up a bunch of levels of magnitude. Right now character planning is pretty much at the level of "take the health-increasing perks early for maximum health gain". Throw aging into the mix and you'll have strategy guides complete with graphs on how to optimize a character for all ages. I don't know about you, but I want to spend as little time on the character screen and get back to the sailing and blasting as soon as possible.

Of course one way to handle this is to simply not show the stats to the player. SM's Pirates does this. I'm not a fan of that solution, because then stuff is happening in the game and you don't know what or why. Confusing the player like that is another no-no. Furthermore, Pirates is a game that is practically built around the concept of your character aging - you have a specific list of goals that you're supposed to accomplish in a limited amount of time. Akella games have always seemed more sandboxy to me, more freeform. I don't wish to give up that freedom, and indeed if aging were to be implemented but made optional, without retooling the game to revolve around it, it would frankly seem rather superfluous and purposeless.

Edit: Expanding upon my rant about supplies, why the heck do I, the captain, have to personally go and buy food and ammo anyway? That's ridiculous! That's what officers are for, dammit! As a captain, I should just have to set how much of the stuff I want and every time I go to port one of my guys should refill to that level without even asking me, or notify me (not with a dialog that I have to close by clicking!) if some of the supplies aren't available. On the flip side, in such a system I wouldn't mind having a bunch of different commodities needed to efficiently run a ship. As long as the computer keeps track of the numbers for me.
 
Absolutely agreed on all of the above. Personally I'd like a game where you can sail, do sea battles and exciting/filmic swordfights, follow stories and influence the game world.
That's what I want to spend my time doing and evrything else can either add some flavour if done well or make the game really annoying if not.

Indeed there's a lot of "micro-management" tasks that seem interesting/fun at first thought, but not anymore after the umpteenth time.
That's why at some point I had the idea that these tasks WOULD be in the game and you'd be doing them yourself at first.
But once you hire an officer who can do the job, you can let him take care of it. You would be able to tell him how to do it through dialog and then not bother with it anymore.
 
I often wondered, why the freepoints was not the skill system - it represents all the essential elements of skill, yet more varied towards fighting, stamina and personality. The skillsystem is not enough and it does'nt take too long before you are 10 all the way. After what character you choose to become, some of the elements of the freepoints system would be included on your skills-list.

Or the freepoints system could be divided into a special skill system for your officers, maby reflecting their rank? A master gunner would have all those skills related to gunnery checked: fast reloading, long range, the 3 aim-skills for each kind of ball, critical shot etc.
 
Uhm... freepoint system? You clearly know more about these things than I do. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
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