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National Allegiances

L

liam1

Landlubber
Hello Everyone,

I've been playing COAS for a while and became curious of whether the alliances and wars between the nations are correct for the time period, does anyone know?

If it isn't accurate would altering the standings mess up any quests that anyone can think of?

Thank you
 
I remember making a post about this a long time ago, I forgot in what thread. But there were several wars during the end of the 17th century and into the 18th.

Historically speaking, if you play the game for about 30 to 50 years (game time) your nation would have been at war at least three times with every other nation, sometimes all at once. xD:

From what I've seen, the status of relations for all nations rarely changes although it's not impossible. I think PoTC and AoP had a working system of alliances and declarations of wars etc.
 
Officerpuppy said:
...
the status of relations for all nations rarely changes although it's not impossible...
Click to expand...
Yes, very rarely but changes.
I do not know whether random or reflects historic dates; after approximately 1,5/2 years of game, I have seen change the relationship between Spain-Holland (neutral -> hostile) and between England-Spain (hostile -> neutral).
Appears a written of notice for the Register.
.....
I remember that in AoP1 was much more frequent, and random.
 
From what you describe, it is somewhat accurate. France and Holland were allied against Spain and England (who were also allied at the time) some time before Queen Anne's War in the beginning of the 18th century. England and Spain had a peace treaty towards the end of the 17th century. If you play through the full English quest line, you can actually get a fairly accurate representation of how things progressed between England and Spain. The game actually did a pretty decent job with the historical accuracy, which you don't find too often.
 
I'd be interested to know if it is random in CoAS or scripted.
PotC didn't have any changing relations, but we added a mod that introduces that in the PotC Build Mod.
However, we've got it turned off by default because it can mess up the storylines.
Instead, we've got the Periods mod. Different storylines take place in different periods.
In a different period, the soldiers have different uniforms, town and island names change, governors change,
flags change, the ships encountered at sea change and nation relations are based on historical information as well.
All of this as much as possible historically accurate, of course.
This doesn't happen during gameplay though, there's just different time settings for when you start a new game.
 
Well if its scripted then at the same year the same nations would change there stance towards each other. The question is at what year did people see the nations stance towards one another change and had they completed a nations questline?

Obviously completing the English questline means the Spanish and English become netural towards each other.
 
Yes, very rarely but changes.
I do not know whether random or reflects historic dates; after approximately 1,5/2 years of game, I have seen change the relationship between Spain-Holland (neutral -> hostile) and between England-Spain (hostile -> neutral).
Appears a written of notice for the Register.
.....
Click to expand...

From what you describe, it is somewhat accurate. France and Holland were allied against Spain and England (who were also allied at the time) some time before Queen Anne's War in the beginning of the 18th century. England and Spain had a peace treaty towards the end of the 17th century. If you play through the full English quest line, you can actually get a fairly accurate representation of how things progressed between England and Spain. The game actually did a pretty decent job with the historical accuracy, which you don't find too often.
Click to expand...

hmm well, in my game after completing about 5 quests for the french governor general, framce becomes neutral to hilland, so there are no more friendly nations, i supose this may have to to with the war, but holland became neutral to england, so holland became neutral to everyone and france has only spain for an enemy
 
I think the game starts in the 1660's? Well, here is a list of conflicts I have been able to find. I've included only the nations in the game and excluded nations that aren't. Furthermore, most of the fighting took place in Europe although it can be reasonably assumed that colonies in the Caribbean of opposing nations weren't singing and dancing together and that privateering was rampant.

The Second Anglo–Dutch War (1665-1667)
UP vs England.

The War of Devolution (1667–1668)
France vs Spain.

The Third Anglo–Dutch War (1672–1674)
UP vs England and France.

The Franco-Dutch War (1672–1678)
France and England vs UP and Spain.

The Scanian War (1675-1679)
UP and Spain vs France.

The War of the Reunions (1683–1684)
France vs Spain.

The Nine Years' War (1688–97)
UP, England and Spain vs France.

Lastly,
The War of the Spanish Succession (1701–1714)
Spain, England and UP vs France and Spain

Queen Anne's War (1702–1713)
France and Spain vs England.
 
It's random, only rare.

I got 4 games that went for more than 5 years, and in each it was different. Only nation-line related changes I've noticed are scripted, and those are: 1.Spain-England going neutral after English quests are over 2. Spain-France going neutral after French quest-line is over 3. Dutch-Spain go to war after battle at La Vega (Dutch quest-line, mission 5 or 6, not sure) and than back to neutral after Dutch quest-line is over (not sure about this one though). Haven't played spanish quest-line yet.

But so far I had Holland at war with everybody else, Spanish and English allied and even Spanish neutral with everybody :)
 
xD: ... :onya
Is very interesting. :yes
I believe that National Allegiances are primarily depending on the completion of the quest-lines.
The historical accuracy is arduous because... this historical period European is very intricate!
Is the "Crisis of the seventeenth century", after the "Thirty Years' War"
In the 1665 (time of game...) the England is in "after Cromwell", Spain is in "after Felipe IV" (with Carlo II: 4 years of age!), France is in full "Roi Soleil" (Luis XIV), and Holland is in its "gouden eeuw" (golden age) with the "Zeventien Provinciën Republiek".
All National Allegiances are unstable and provisional.
In the game, the alliance between France and Holland is strong; in the history, Luis XIV he aims to conquer to the Netherlands.
....
Is very interesting the story of the Jansenists (1^ and 8^ quest of Dutch-line ); fused jointly the Huguenots and the Sephardi Jews (Mendez Chumaçeiro is a real name "morisco"), two rich and important groups of refugees in Holland.
 
giocoso said:
In the game, the alliance between France and Holland is strong; in the history, Luis XIV he aims to conquer to the Netherlands.
Click to expand...

He didn't want to conquer the Dutch did he? I was under the impression he wanted to control the Spanish Netherlands through some claim that it was rightfully his land, as they all do. In order to do this he tried to get the Dutch, United Provinces, to join in the war against Spain, they refused, but other than that I thought the French and the Dutch had a strong alliance during that time.

Anywho thank you all for your responses I do believe my questions to be answered :bow
 
Louis XIV had claims on the Netherlands for kinship with Philip IV of Spain (he had married his daughter Maria Theresa).
But everything was very patchy and variable.
Example:
1658: Alliance England and France Vs Spain, (the Battle of Dunkerque).
1659: Peace between France and Spain.
1660: Louis XIV married Maria Teresa, daughter of Felipe IV of Spain and sister of prince Carlos (future king Carlos II).
1662: French-Dutch alliance Vs England
1665: 2 ^ naval war England-Holland
1666: French-Dutch alliance against England (French conquest of St. Kitts and Antigua);
1667: Peace between France and England. England did not intervene against French claims on the Netherlands. May: France invades Netherlands (War of Devolution); July: Peace between England, France and Holland.
1668: Alliance between England and Holland against France.
1670: Alliance between France and England against Spain and Holland ...
:blink: :wacko: :ko
 
:yes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Dutch_War
"The Second Anglo–Dutch War was fought between England and the United Provinces from 4 March 1665 until 31 July 1667....
...
In June (1667, add), De Ruyter, with Cornelis de Witt supervising, launched the Dutch "Raid on the Medway" at the mouth of the River Thames. After capturing the fort at Sheerness, the Dutch fleet went on to break through the massive chain protecting the entrance to the Medway and, on the 13th, attacked the laid up English fleet. The daring raid remains England's greatest naval disaster. Fifteen of the Navy's remaining ships were destroyed, either by the Dutch or by being scuttled by the English to block the river. Three of the eight remaining "big ships" were burnt: the Royal Oak, the new Loyal London and the Royal James. The largest, the English flagship HMS Royal Charles, was abandoned by its skeleton crew, captured without a shot being fired, and towed back to the Netherlands as a trophy. Its coat of arms is now on display in the Rijksmuseum. Fortunately for the English, the Dutch marines spared the Chatham Dockyard, England's largest industrial complex; a land attack on the docks themselves would have set back English naval power for a generation....
..."
 
Wow they were fickle.
I'm suprised anyone went into an alliance with anyone, when a few years later the chances are they would forget about the alliance and declare war on you. It's like, if I make an alliance the Spanish it means that if the French attck the Spanish I have an excuse to go in and conquer France.
That's my sort of thinking on Total War but I didn't think they actually did that in real life.
 
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Alliances at the time were indeed fickle. :yes De Witt did a brilliant job juggling opponents. Charles II was constantly trying to convince France to abandon their alliance with Holland and join England. France honored it's treaty with the Netherlands but didn't send any help. Just the French presence caused the English to split their naval forces to watch the French.

I love that picture of the Medway attack BTW. There's a rich story behind it. This attack took the English totally by surprise. For the last month the Dutch and English had been in peace negotiations. The Dutch fleet had been blockading the Thames for weeks.

While the War had been more of a stalemate in home waters with both large Dutch and English victories, it was disasterous for the English globally. Numerous losses of both colonies and ships occurred. Hundreds of English prizes were captured by Dutch privateers. Financially the English had to make peace. They couldn't even pay their sailors. This is why the fleet was laid up in the Medway. The Great plague and the Great London Fire of 1666 were seen as God's revenge on England for an unjust war and in reprisal for "Holmes Bonfire". The Dutch still wanted revenge for Holmes Bonfire. After the raid, the English peace settlement ceded the last of their spice island colonies Ai and Run giving the Dutch a complete monopoly on the spice trade. :nk

After the 2nd Dutch war was over, France began to look at invasion of the Netherlands. It had the most powerful Army in Europe and now that the threat of having a Hapsburg Netherlands on their northern border was over, France invaded. The Franco-Dutch War (1672-1678) of which the Third Anglo Dutch War (1672-1674) was part of, was a dark time for Holland. They were now attacked on every side both on land and sea.

Extremely interesting period in history. :mm

MK
 
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