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Unconfirmed Bug Sometimes highwaymen groups have members without weapon and give rep loss

T

Tingyun

Corsair
Storm Modder
Of the groups of highwayman (4 members, open dialogue with you before attacking) in the jungle, twice now I've had the following bug. One member does not seem to have a weapon, and everytime I hit him I get a -1 rep for undrawn sword. On looting body, he has only gold. However, he and his companions are attacking us--and in the confusion it is hard to notice he doesnt have a weapon until too late (and I am waiting for the dialogue to finish and them to be the aggressors).

So far, it has happened twice, out of maybe 50 groups of highwaymen I have slain, so it is pretty rare, but bothersome to lose the rep.
 
I think the fact they have no weapon is actually intentional because they are a fist fighter. but it shouldn't give you reploss ... but maybe @Jack Rackham and/ore @Pieter Boelen can confirm this.
 
I have heard of fistfighters in taverns but I never met any in the jungle.
Can it be right?

...fist fighter. but it shouldn't give you reploss
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Can it be right?
 
Does the character have no weapon also at the start of the fight?

Most likely what happened is that his sword broke during the fight.
If so, either he'll continue fighting with his fists (wouldn't trigger rep loss on your part) or he'll run away (if you then still kill him, it does trigger rep loss).
 
Pieter Boelen said:
Does the character have no weapon also at the start of the fight?

Most likely what happened is that his sword broke during the fight.
If so, either he'll continue fighting with his fists (wouldn't trigger rep loss on your part) or he'll run away (if you then still kill him, it does trigger rep loss).
Click to expand...
I think its more likely the equipcode barfed and didn't give a weapon if I read his post well...
 
I don't think that usually happens at all.
And without a weapon, he'd have no weapon to draw which means he cannot be joining in the fight.
For a character to have a weapon drawn, that character *must* have a weapon. That is actually the reason why fists were originally added.
So it being an error with the equip code sounds really quite unlikely.
 
The fights are a bit hectic so I can't say for certain that he did not have a weapon that broke. However, this all occurred within the first 3 seconds of the fight, as my team only swings 3 times and everyone dies (I don't block or anything, given we are using tomahawks). I also can't say for certain he wasn't running away, but it did not look like he was. Still, it could have been he was just starting to turn to run away, and I chopped him down before he could.

I will try to pay further attention next time to see if it might be a weapon braking right away where I don't notice he is running away.
 
You can close this report: Pieter was right, I think the weapon had broken and I just didn't notice. Now that I am paying attention for this, it has happened a few more times, and always the weapon is broken.
 
hmmm....still you shouldn't get replose if you fight someone who's sword was broken right?
 
I agree Levis!

Actually, it is pretty bad, because officers aren't programmed to let fleeing enemies with broken weapons go. Instead, your officers will cut them down, losing (you don't get messages but can see the results if it is enough to change their reputation level) 1 rep per hit and 3 for the kill.

Jungle hunting bandits with my officers, one officer went down from matey to bloke because he killed two bandits who had their weapons brake during the fight. Very disappointing actually, and no way to tell them to just let the guy go.

In addition, the code for what counts seems to return strange results. If the person whose weapon broke later gets triggered to once again be hostile to the player (like in events that respawn enemies from conversation, for example if you raid a mansion bedroom and trigger the hostile dialogue twice in a row, and a character's weapon broke on the first triggering), they will attack with fists once again, but you will still have the rep loss from hitting them.

Finally, as a game mechanic it basically punishes the player for not paying enough attention for a split second, when fights are very hectic and hard to follow anyway.
 
If a weapon breaks, either the character will continue fighting or not.
If not, then he'll have NO more weapon and will run away. Killing him then anyway will probably trigger a reputation hit. Officers should respect this too.
If he does continue fighting, he gets fists and uses those.

This was added mainly to shake up the battles a bit, since the fencing system is otherwise rather basic.
 
Hi Pieter,

I think officers need to be programmed to stop attacking opponents with a broken weapon then, otherwise, it basically is just a reputation drain for officers involved in combat, as at times weapons will break and they don't know to stop themselves. :)

A very low priority issue, but I've also seen the system go wrong under these circumstances I mentioned above: "If the person whose weapon broke later gets triggered to once again be hostile to the player (like in events that respawn enemies from conversation, for example if you raid a mansion bedroom and trigger the hostile dialogue twice in a row, and a character's weapon broke on the first triggering), they will attack with fists once again, but you will still have the rep loss from hitting them."
 
A character who fights with fists has a weapon and therefore should not cause reputation loss when killed.
A character without fists cannot fight and will therefore run away.
That is how it is supposed to be anyway.
 
Pieter,

It does work like that, except when a character who was running away gets triggered to be hostile once again by some other script. Then he resumes fighting, this time with fists, but you still have the rep loss.

It is a VERY minor issue though. Basically only comes up when looting mansions that I've seen so far. You could play 200 hours and never see it I think. ;)
 
How exactly does a character without any weapons turn hostile?
I don't think that should be possible.
 
Hi Pieter,

Two ways that I have seen:

1) Go into a mansion bedroom. Talk to the girl, make her afraid, she will call her guards. Kill 2 of the guards, leave 1 alive with a broken weapon. That guard will start running, but have nowhere to run to, so mostly cower in a corner. Then talk to the girl again. She will call guards a second time. 3 new guards spawn, and the disarmed guard ceases running and begins attacking again.

2) Go into the maltese crypt, dig at a treasure site. Dig up a skeleton, break his knife. He starts running. Now dig again until you dig up any hostile event (indian mummy, exorcists, grandmaster, another skeleton, anything works). The first skeleton will turn around and once again attack the player.

Basically, there are certain events that tell certain groups of people to be hostile to the player, and if you retrigger the event a second time while a disarmed person from the first triggering is still around, he once again gets set hostile to the player.

Which is why it is a minor issue, it almost never happens. ;)

Training the officers to stop killing their rep by attacking unarmed people might be worth the time, but fixing this retriggering thing is not I think. ;)
 
Please make a apartseparate Bug Tracker entry for both those things.
Neither should be happening.
 
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