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water boarding

V

Vengeance

Landlubber
this happens at around the 3rd or 4th level of boarding...

<img src="http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g137/vengeance_02/waterboarding.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
why does it do that? i can continue to the next level but i cant see anything else but water until my guys kill the other crew then i can go on to the next level... Help me out here....
 
i think this is caused by strafing cause
when you strafe you can go trough all material
 
It isn't caused by the strafing/sidestep. But it can probably be "solved" by it. When this happens again, press A or D (any of the sidestep keys) and you will probably be put back on the deck. Then please make a screenshot of the deck so we know at what deck this happens.

This bug is probably caused because you are teleported to an unexisting locator.
 
It normally happens to me in the ship's cabin. There's an error message about teleporting to the enemy captain. I haven't researched it yet.

Hook
 
I encountered this a couple of times in the ship's cabin during boardings as well. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
I have encountered this case numerous times.

What it is, is a scene, where you are in captains cabin, with your mateys (officers/crew), attacking the enemy captain. The locator for your character seems to be just underneath the cabin floor (Hell, when will people remember to place the locators a bloody meter above the floor, to allow for initialisation and such??). The character, as a result, drops through while the graphics engine is already running, but the other components are still initialising and the scene screen is not yet on. What we get is a cabin floating some 50 meters above the empty sea (which is right), a whole bunch of your mateys battling the poor captain in his cabin high above (also right), and you sitting it out - having been dropped down from the starting position to the zero height (which is wrong).

So there - my idea is that it is the locator being positioned exactly on the floor by some over-accurate designer. In fact, the locator should be positioned some half a meter above the cabin floor - to allow for the physics to take over and your char to fall on the floor, rather than through it.
 
Interesting idea. Not sure if that actually is the case though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Have you had a look at the locators in the files? I have seen stuff like this happen before, but that was because of an error in the positioning the character on the locator: The locator doesn't exist. If the character is positioned on an unexisting locator, he will be set at the (0,0,0) point of the scene instead, which is probably the floating-above-the-water spot.
 
I have never checked it for locators myself - my post above is a speculation based on my experience with modding other games that use similar engines. You might be well right Pieter - if the locator does not exist... well, the spot where my char ends up looks pretty much like 0,0,0 to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Am I the only one who wondered whether Jack Sparrow had suddenly become Jesus...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
I found the bug that causes this, but I have NO idea why it happens. Yet.

When you start on any boarding deck, you are placed at a locator called "captain." But the boarding cabin doesn't have this locator. So, you end up in the zero location as Pieter mentioned above, and the game generates an error message.

I've got a fix in place so you start in the cabin instead of the water, but I'm having problems testing it as it appears you're not supposed to ever fight in the cabin. I'm not sure if it's a timing issue, where variables haven't been set right yet in another part of the code that's running concurrently, or something that is set incorrectly from a previous boarding.

I was able to force the game to continue the fight into the cabin, so the fix appears to work. Now I'm trying to figure out how the variables can get set so that you can continue the fight in the cabin while playing normally.

Don't worry, the problem will be going away one way or another.

Hook
 
well i have one solution for it.... like pieter told me....sidestep.... and guess what.... it worked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
Mings is intrigued... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> If you smell anything burning it's just what's left of my brain. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

If I'm following the discussion correctly this phenomenon does not occur every time a boarding action takes place in a PreBuild 13 game. The question I have is does it appear to occur only on medium and small ships?

The command to set the main character on a deck in a boarding action appears to me to be in LAi_boarding.c (Both in 12.1 and Post-Build 12)

I'm pasting it so it can be found easily within that file:

//Óñòàíàâëèâàåì ãëàâíîãî ïåðñîíàæà
ref mchr = GetMainCharacter();
mchr.location = locationID;
mchr.location.group = "rld";
mchr.location.locator = "loc0"; <-------this line
//Óñòàíàâëèâàåì îôèöåðîâ, åñëè òàêèå åñòü
int logined = 1;
for(int i = 1; i < 4; i++)

<u>If </u> that is so, I think I may have found something useful.

In Build 12.1 the locator in the cabin is labeled loc0, and the enemy locator is aloc0, and the other 3 officers are at loc1, loc2, etc., and the enemies likewise with an "a".

What I'm seeing in the GM viewer is that for the following models;
1. Cabin01_locators.gm and
2. Cabin02_locators.gm

everything looks fine, (has anybody had troubles with these cabins?) but in

1. camp_deck_l.gm
2. capmd_l.gm
3. capsm_l.gm

I'm seeing what appears to be locators (loc0 et. al.) that are in the same exact locations as "goto" locators, as if someone used the TOOL to make "loc" location labels using the same coordinates as possibly previously existing "goto" locators.

I'm wondering if this is what is causing the difficulty that causes the phenomenon that Pieter describes; the game cannot identify the locator and defaults to the 0'0'0' location. Either that or a sort of collision occurs between the two locators.

I have added locators to location models (rooms, not ships) using the coordinates of existing locators, but I found the locator was often blocked by the "original locator" (espcially if it was a box) until I removed it.

I don't know if those cabins above, 1. camp_deck_l.gm, 2. capmd_l.gm, 3. capsm_l.gm, are used in the game in other places than just boarding, I still haven't played Post-Build 12 beyond testing it for the Santos quest, but if they are not, I'd recommend deleting the "goto" locators, with Inez's TOOL, keeping the "loc" ones of course, and see if that clears up the problem.

If those decks are used in the game for things other than boarding actions, separate models could be set up as well without the loc locators and coding directions could point to them.

Hope this is in the ball park. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> If I'm totally off base, ...it wouldn't be the first time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />


<!--quoteo(post=157539:date=Aug 10 2006, 03:20 PM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Aug 10 2006, 03:20 PM) [snapback]157539[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Am I the only one who wondered whether Jack Sparrow had suddenly become Jesus...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's <b>BLASPHEMY!</b> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> God, how I love blasphemy! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=157559:date=Aug 10 2006, 09:21 PM:name=SirChristopherMings)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirChristopherMings @ Aug 10 2006, 09:21 PM) [snapback]157559[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Mings is intrigued... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> If you smell anything burning it's just what's left of my brain. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

If I'm following the discussion correctly this phenomenon does not occur every time a boarding action takes place in a PreBuild 13 game. The question I have is does it appear to occur only on medium and small ships?

The command to set the main character on a deck in a boarding action appears to me to be in LAi_boarding.c (Both in 12.1 and Post-Build 12)

I'm pasting it so it can be found easily within that file:

//Óñòàíàâëèâàåì ãëàâíîãî ïåðñîíàæà
ref mchr = GetMainCharacter();
mchr.location = locationID;
mchr.location.group = "rld";
mchr.location.locator = "loc0"; <-------this line
//Óñòàíàâëèâàåì îôèöåðîâ, åñëè òàêèå åñòü
int logined = 1;
for(int i = 1; i < 4; i++)

<u>If </u> that is so, I think I may have found something useful.

In Build 12.1 the locator in the cabin is labeled loc0, and the enemy locator is aloc0, and the other 3 officers are at loc1, loc2, etc., and the enemies likewise with an "a".

What I'm seeing in the GM viewer is that for the following models;
1. Cabin01_locators.gm and
2. Cabin02_locators.gm

everything looks fine, (has anybody had troubles with these cabins?) but in

1. camp_deck_l.gm
2. capmd_l.gm
3. capsm_l.gm

I'm seeing what appears to be locators (loc0 et. al.) that are in the same exact locations as "goto" locators, as if someone used the TOOL to make "loc" location labels using the same coordinates as possibly previously existing "goto" locators.

I'm wondering if this is what is causing the difficulty that causes the phenomenon that Pieter describes; the game cannot identify the locator and defaults to the 0'0'0' location. Either that or a sort of collision occurs between the two locators.

I have added locators to location models (rooms, not ships) using the coordinates of existing locators, but I found the locator was often blocked by the "original locator" (espcially if it was a box) until I removed it.

I don't know if those cabins above, 1. camp_deck_l.gm, 2. capmd_l.gm, 3. capsm_l.gm, are used in the game in other places than just boarding, I still haven't played Post-Build 12 beyond testing it for the Santos quest, but if they are not, I'd recommend deleting the "goto" locators, with Inez's TOOL, keeping the "loc" ones of course, and see if that clears up the problem.

If those decks are used in the game for things other than boarding actions, separate models could be set up as well without the loc locators and coding directions could point to them.

Hope this is in the ball park. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> If I'm totally off base, ...it wouldn't be the first time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />


<!--quoteo(post=157539:date=Aug 10 2006, 03:20 PM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Aug 10 2006, 03:20 PM) [snapback]157539[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Am I the only one who wondered whether Jack Sparrow had suddenly become Jesus...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's <b>BLASPHEMY!</b> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> God, how I love blasphemy! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


it happenson only large ships like MOW's, SOTL, and battleships.... i havent had anyproblems with ships smaller than that mostly because they dont have as much crew, the more the crew, the more likely this is going to happen because you have to fight only 8 crewmen per level and with 300 or so crewmen on a ship that dont really want to surrender, that could take a while and your going to be going through all the boarding levels the game knows....correct me if im wrong.
 
Interesting stuff, SCM. Is there a tutorial where I could read about how to get this info? It would be useful for fixing the boarding code.

Looks like camp-etc is the crew deck, not something used in boarding. I could be wrong, especially if you're looking at something else. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/boom.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":boom" border="0" alt="boom.gif" />
So much for that theory!

One question, has this been encountered only recently, the PreBuild 13 version? Did it ever occur in the previous versions? Maybe the models and locator gms that I'm looking at are not current.

I'm going on the assumption that a change has been made where new cabins (from the SLIB?) have been assigned to ships of different sizes, and you can encounter them in both boarding actions, and in Sailing Mode. Can anyone identify which cabin model is used for the larger ships? I didn't see a cabin model that I could identify as a "large" cabin in the PostBuild 12 files that I was looking at, and for all I know capmd_l.gm is large and capsm_l.gm is medium. (Kinda like Starbucks! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> )

Hook,
You've probably already seen these, but I tend to pore over CCC's tutorial(s)

CCC's Location Cloning Tutorials
<a href="http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php?wakka=LocationCloning&v=10xt" target="_blank">http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php...ning&v=10xt</a>
<a href="http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php?wakka=LocationCloningContinued&v=n86" target="_blank">http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php...inued&v=n86</a>

and Inez Dias' tutorial for the TOOL

Inez Dias' TOOL
<a href="http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php?wakka=ToolForLocationediting&v=9u9#TOC_10" target="_blank">http://robotsdontbleed.com/wacko/wakka.php...mp;v=9u9#TOC_10</a>

Even though CCC reports that the Location Cloning tutorials are obsolete because of the TOOL, I still find it very interesting and useful. I cannot claim to understand everything they are talking about, but refering to these, and experimenting with the game itself, is where I find myself spending more of my time rather than actually playing it. This is fascinaing stuff! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />

The camp_deck_l.gm isn't used in boarding actions? That's interesting too, because it has the aloc# locators for opponents spread around it, so apparently it <i>could</i> be used for boarding actions. (This is a room belowdecks, with a rope-encircled mast in the center, and a table with a candelabra on it, with chairs nearby.) If it wasn't used for boardings, I wonder why? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huhh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:k" border="0" alt="huhh.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=157689:date=Aug 11 2006, 01:37 PM:name=SirChristopherMings)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirChristopherMings @ Aug 11 2006, 01:37 PM) [snapback]157689[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/boom.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":boom" border="0" alt="boom.gif" />
So much for that theory!

One question, has this been encountered only recently, the PreBuild 13 version? Did it ever occur in the previous versions? Maybe the models and locator gms that I'm looking at are not current.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Never ran across it any previous builds an ye knows me Sir Mings me good friend,spent many days play'n previous builds,interst'n thought ye 'ave thar fer Camp_deck GM,never looked at em before,wurth take'n a look at.Locators can be funny business sometimes cause we played with them before <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> , an good ol" Nathan who designed a lot of the code fer back end of the game fer builds ain't here at the moment Hook,he would have a lot O' answers to a lot O' questions< One thing sticks out in my mind Nathan said,always play the tutorial with Malcolm to the end,if you don't it can cause strange things to happen,not say'n this is the cause,wunder though how many problems it can cause though if mate's aren't doing that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Update: the only decks that have a "captain" locator are the top decks of the ships. The other decks will normally put you at aloc0. There is some weirdness with the boarding cabins, looks like quite a few bugs, which I am slowly unravelling.

It looks like the reason you end up in the water is because the game doesn't have the right cabins set up for all the ships. There are discrepancies between the boarding code and the locations/init/boarding.c file. If the game thinks you're supposed to be in Cabin1, but you are actually in Cabin 3 (for example), then it treats it like you're on the top deck, tries to place you at locator "captain" which doesn't exist, and you get your feet wet.

Don't worry, I'll get it straightened out.

Hook
 
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>To explain a couple of things about the models in use:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

The models are in the RESOURCE\MODELS\Locations\decks folder.

<b>From the stock game:</b>
<i>Deck1, Deck2, Hold:</i> Used during boardings. Also used as player's ship deck. Which one depends on the ship class (see PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Deck.c)
<i>Qdeck:</i> Only used as quest location.
<i>Udeck:</i> Used during boardings.
<i>tut_deck.gm:</i> Used as tutorial deck, during boardings and as player's captains cabin. Usage depends on the ship class (see PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Cabin.c).
<i>Cap:</i> Not sure what this is used for. Seems the same as tut_deck.gm. Maybe this one is used during boardings instead of tut_deck.gm?

<b>From the SLiB mod, added by Maximus:</b>
<i>tut_deck\camp_deck.gm:</i> Used as player's crew quarters (see PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Crew.c).
<i>tut_deck\cap_md.gm, tut_deck\capsm.gm:</i> Used during boardings and as player's captains cabin. Usage depends on the ship class (see PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Cabin.c).

<b>From AoP, added by Maximus:</b>
<i>tut_deck\Cabin01.gm, tut_deck\Cabin02.gm:</i> Used during boardings and as player's captains cabin. Usage depends on the ship class (see PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Cabin.c).
<i>Udeck1, Udeck2:</i> Used during boardings.

The models are used in:
PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_boarding.c (for the boarding locations)
PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Cabin.c (for the player captain's cabins)
PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Crew.c (for the player's crew quarters)
PROGRAM\SEA_AI\BOAL_Deck.c (for the player's deck)

The locations are defined in:
PROGRAM\Locations\init\boarding.c (for the boarding locations)
PROGRAM\Locations\init\QuestLocations.c (for the tutorial cabin)
PROGRAM\Locations\init\mods\Ship.c (for the player captain's cabins, crew quarters and deck)
 
The cap deck appears to be the one used for boardings, according to what I've seen in the code. I'm not sure what the tut-deck would be used for (I'M KIDDING!). The boxes aren't the same in the two otherwise apparently identical cabins.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=157558:date=Aug 11 2006, 02:32 AM:name=Vengeance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vengeance @ Aug 11 2006, 02:32 AM) [snapback]157558[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
well i have one solution for it.... like pieter told me....sidestep.... and guess what.... it worked <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

couch couch that was my idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" />
 
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