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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Chain shot

<!--quoteo(post=148413:date=May 14 2006, 08:08 AM:name=Jason Maffettone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason Maffettone @ May 14 2006, 08:08 AM) [snapback]148413[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
My suspision is not, I've been testing it out quite a bit by using a lot of chain shot at various ranges, both automaticly and manualy. The visual sail damage I think is keyed because storm damage to sails causes the same visual, also I note thet in the origional game (and the base build 12) the results on maneuvering was consciderable and now its minimal at best.

I will try making the alteration above and report back any results I note.
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If you deactivate the spyglass mod (in Buildstttings, set #define KBSPG to "0"), then you'll get exact info about target sails with the spyglass

HTH
 
OK, think I've got it! If you go to PROGRAM?STORE?GOODS.INT:

Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].SpeedV0 = 0.75; // was 0.9
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageHull = 4.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageRig = 10.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageCrew = 1.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].Dispersion.X = 3.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].Dispersion.Y = 8.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].Dispersion.V = 0.08;
}
else
{
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].SpeedV0 = 0.9;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageHull = 3.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageRig = 18.0;
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageCrew = 2.5;

Change 2nd line to:
Goods[GOOD_KNIPPELS].DamageRig = 20.0;

I did this and my enemies sails are again torn to krap before me!
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
Well Done Jason Maffettone: well done indeed........each ammo type should be set higher for its speciality....so chain would work better on Rigging....if we compare that with Balls for hulls...and Grape for Crew....we should be able to make a balanced comparison to each and come up with something useable
 
Ok well Jason's idea works ok, though it basically means changing values to the Real Cannons mod...might as well turn it off I guess(?). Anyway knippel damage set to 16 seems effective enough...nice holes appear and little ships lose masts from time to time (though my ships usually have between 32 and 70 guns, 18-32 pounders so can't say what effect little caliber guns have).

But anyone know how to change the elevation settings for guns when firing manually in 1st person view? I'm still finding AI targetting useless, but at close range I don't have enough elevation to aim for the sails or deck when firing grape or chain. I imagine it means changing the value of:

#define FIRE_ANGLE_SCALAR_H 1.0

I'll maybe try 1.7 or something and see if that helps a little. This tinkering isn't to make the game unrealistic as such, its just that at present the cannons aren't very effective except when using balls. As Long John says we oughta find some balance between realistic and fun/usability.
 
I've turned it down to 15 myself after a bit of experimentation but I don't recomend turning Real Cannons off entirely as numerous modifications have been made. I also tweeked the Bombs, turning their hull damage down to 12 (from 20) as I was killing every ship I encountered with one broadside.

I reactivated Bombs as sellable but added them to the contraband list of all but the pirate stores and seems to be working out well there.

I haven't messed with the gun elevations but will experiment. The down side of that is that it might be an all or nothing thing with gun elevation. Set them too high and you might find yourself having to find a very exact range to hit the hulls. Will report what I find.
 
Idea: What if we make bombs sellable from pirate stores only, but make bombs increase the risk of your ship exploding? The same should go for having inordinate amounts of gunpowder aboard. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
I very much like both thoses ideas. This brings up the matter of the ship's magizine. Is there a way to make a sub-cargo hold just for that, size based on number/size of guns and have any additional cargo space used (for gunpowder) be subject to this risk or at least increase the probobility?

Regarding bombs as contraband that seems to not be working for me unless I replace a contraband item. I was hoping it could just be a slot #4 and not show up in trade book, but... It may be because of ammunition being its own classification apart from Normal, Import, Export, Contraband.

I'm noticing in my use of bombs, even with their damage turned down as listed above, that critical shots are a little overly critical. Is this why they were deactivated? Also, I never get ship fires duriung sea battles now and I'm not sure why. I might have only had them up to the March 5th, can't remember for sure I've scrapped and reloaded this damn program so many times (lol).
 
Critical hits were made much, much more critical by Merciless Mark on purpose. This is done with bSeriousBoom in AIShip.c.

Shame about the contraband part of the mod. But having them only be exported on pirate islands would be nice as well. As long as you can't get them all too easily.

I don't think a seperate cargo hold is needed for the ship's magazine. We just need to add some code that takes into account the amount of gunpowder and bombs aboard and will take that to define the explosion chance. This is quite possible. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

Not saying you gentlemen do not have good ideas here, but Bombs seem somewhat unrealistic in this game. First of all the enemy ships seemed to have been always able to set my ship on fire so easily.....this got so bad I turned the fire mod either off or way down. Secondly they really don't have a counterpart in real life, unless you make comparison to "Heated Shot" I have always thought maybe the best way to use Bombs were to make them Fort or Land based cannon only, that way they work like heated shot.....either that or turn them in too Double Shot in the game and forget we ever had them....

As for Pirates only, they didnt have the tech to make them but understand the need to keep them "rare"
 
At the moment, bombs are limited to forts only. And they can do massive damage. But ships can't use them.

Whatever is decided upon, I want to have the amount of gunpowder aboard the ship cause a risk of fire/explosion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=148563:date=May 15 2006, 08:30 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ May 15 2006, 08:30 PM) [snapback]148563[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
At the moment, bombs are limited to forts only. And they can do massive damage. But ships can't use them.

Whatever is decided upon, I want to have the amount of gunpowder aboard the ship cause a risk of fire/explosion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
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Be nice to have new and exciting ways for ships to die...I much prefer Sid Meier's Pirates! for the fact that ships can literally explode as if the powder magazine catches fire.
BTW, what is the 'bSeriousBoom' in AiShip meant to do? Can't say I've ever seen much of a 'boom' playing with Cannonfx 2.94...
 
Bomb shot DID exist but was much more commonly used with mortors and large field guns then abord ships for obvious reasons. Their main problem wasn't even so much vulnerability to enemy fire (gun enplacements wether abord ship or land based were packed with exzplosive anyway) so much as timing the fuses propperly. They were rigged to roll about a bit before going off to avoid premature detonation and on a vessel they'd as often as not pass through or bounce off. The impact detonator came much later when connical shells replaced the cannon ball. (I was a fire-direction specialist in the 1/38 field artillery in Korea)

If bomb shot could somehow be modified to only work with the largest cannon, 32 lbs, this would be helpfull in restricting them, as well as more realistic, but I don't know if that's doable.

Double shot would be a nice add-on, as would heated shot but the ship fire thing needs to be tweaked for that to mean anything.

Regarding the contraband bombs mod I think there may be a way to fix that. It DOES show up on the contraband lists where I added it but because I added it to the autobuy that may be superceeding the restriction. I'll adjust that in the buildsettings and see if it has any effect.
 
Bomb shot is absolutely unrealistic for ships.

Only used in specially-crafted ships designed to siege cities from sea.
Used in land for sieges initially. Then from howitzers in pitched battles. But never too popular (IIRC about 1/8 of artillery pieces, round 1810)

From forts, or land, could be used against ships, but only in very specific situations and with limited success: as the bombs use a timer fuse, firing against a moving target was a difficult task

The long guns (including 32 pdrs) can't fire bombs: the shell will crack with the acceleration of a long gun. That's the reason they were used in mortars and howitzers (short barrelled ones)
- The russians army used "licornes", a mix between howitzers and gun able to shot round shot and bombs.
- The english army build the "case-shot", a stronger bomb with a smaller explosive charge and musket balls inside.

So I've to cast my vote against re-introducing bombs in the game.
 
bSeriousBoom = Critical Hit. If bSeriousBoom is set to true somewhere, then a critical hit happens. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=148610:date=May 16 2006, 06:53 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ May 16 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]148610[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
bSeriousBoom = Critical Hit. If bSeriousBoom is set to true somewhere, then a critical hit happens. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
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Ahh ok, pity. I was hoping for a powder mag explosion a la Interceptor in POTC.

On another note I didn't find much effect on changing the H elevation settings in Buildsettings.h. Can't say I noticed much of a difference in the elevation when shooting manually.

And I'd have to cast my vote for no bomb introduction either. It's fun enough as it is without them, and having mistakenly destroyed Isla Muelle fort last night (they shouldn't have shot at me) it seems easy enough to take forts without bombs.
 
Agreed, but I think criticals should somehow get worked back in at a more modest damage level then set to now. There should be a way to do extreme and fatal damage to a ship with a well-placed or lucky shot. Not saying ships should be taken out too regulary by catastrophic reactions but there should be a real possibility, especially since a person pl;aying the game for any length of time is much more efficient at combat then the AI could ever be.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":beer" border="0" alt="beer2.gif" />

Okay....I agree with you guys completely....hey for the mod, if it keeps things flowing...great keep bombs....but I rather use that spot for Double Shot, Cannister, Bar Shot, Case Shot......or even Bow And Arrows......but by all means The criticals were I agree, something ....unique....so why not put them there....it was only the bombs that were out of place
 
Another odd thought... When you face an enemy ship does it have a "captain" already set that has a skill and ability effect in the game or is a captain just added when you take the ship over to provide a captive?

If they aren't is there a way to add them? Also, larger ships might have more officers (like the 4 you can have on the passenger list) to increase their effectiveness.

Say, class 1 gets four officers, class 2 gets three, classes 3 & 4 get 2, and 5,6, & 7 get only 1. This way multiple captives are possibile though of corse some could be killed during the boarding if they don't surrender outright. Anything that makes the computer ships smarter or at least more effective would greatly enhance the game.
 
<!--quoteo(post=148637:date=May 17 2006, 01:06 AM:name=Jason Maffettone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason Maffettone @ May 17 2006, 01:06 AM) [snapback]148637[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Another odd thought... When you face an enemy ship does it have a "captain" already set that has a skill and ability effect in the game or is a captain just added when you take the ship over to provide a captive?

.....
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Yes. The enemy ships has captains with skills and perks.

But it seems interesting how I've found it:

<blockquote> In Program/SEA_AI/AIFantom.c we have the routines:

int Fantom_GenerateEncounter(string sGroupName, object oResult, int iEType, int iNation)

void Fantom_AddFantomCharacter(string sGroupName, int iShipType, string sFantomType, int iEncounterType, int iNation)

void <b>Fantom_SetRandomSkills</b>(ref rFantom, string sFantomType)

BUT

If we search the whole PROGRAM tree for the string Fantom_SetRandomSkills(... we find:

sea.c
AIFantom.c


In AIFantom.c we have just the function definition.
In sea.c we have:
//Fantom_SetRandomSkills(rFantom, rFantom.fantomtype); (commented - so it isn't used at all)

and a little bit below, inside the routine SeaLogin:
LAi_Create_Officer(rand(<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />, &rFantom);

In LAi_Create_Officer we find:

LAi_Officer_SetSkillmodifiers_and_Perks(Npchar,Skillvariation);
LAi_SetSkill_on_Modifier(Npchar);

So, at the end, there are captains, but not where I though at the beginning
</blockquote>
 
<!--quoteo(post=147436:date=May 4 2006, 03:52 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Commodore John Paul Jones @ May 4 2006, 03:52 PM) [snapback]147436[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
the bomb was not as popular and very dangerous to use on a ship, leading many captains to not use it.
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I agree whole-heartedly, what sensible captain would have a bloody great bomb in their ship that, if dropped by a sailor who slipped on a random musket ball on the deck, would blow your poor beautiful ship into next Friday! Except, of course bomb ketches (ooh! maybe a mod that would add bomb ketches, maybe with two mortars that are extremely powereful and have a magnificent range, but very slow reload) whose only job was to shell enemies with massive quantities of iron, gunpowder and fire! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" />
 
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