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Solved Fixing the Build Mod Ships

Hylie Pistof said:
Here is the ships_init.c I was working out of from a dead install. I still have not gotten everything into the working install.
Click to expand...
Is that the latest correct file? There are quite a few differences with the one I made based on your posted files before. I'm confused... :?
 
I did a Winmerge with that file and the one you posted and then picked out most of the differences. Some differences I left out because they seemed to be irrelevant, like the whole early Neptunus section.

Here is the init from my only working install.
 

Attachments

  • Ships_init.c
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But... but... in that file the HMS Interceptor cabin changes back to its Beta 2 original state? That's not right, is it?
 
Hmm. Nope, this install does not have the new Interceptor yet. Sorry for the confusion, but I don't remember yesterday, much less what I did months ago.
 
So how are we going to make sure that what ends up in the next modpack release are the correct code changes?
 
I've been thinking about this (and yes it hurts) and it seems that the differences are mostly things like flags/pennants. So I was probably updating them as I played to bring them up to current thinking on historical accuracy, and then forgot about it.
 
So then I suppose I'll only apply those code changes that are accompanied by your modified model files.
Then any others, you could re-add later on for Beta 2.3.
 
I picked up the NL_Batavia on a whim and was cleaning up locators when it occurred to me that no one will ever make new walk files and path for it. It might be a good idea to just drop this ship if it will never get improved.
 
Can do, I suppose. Too bad about the texture-work by Thomas the Terror, which really is pretty good, but otherwise she's a pretty substandard ship.
 
This is a pic of the new battle sail layout that I will be putting on all ships from now on, unless someone objects. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/76702168/POTC screenies/NL_Pinnace-4.jpg

Also, look at this screenie of two class 5 pinnaces. The standard one is huge! The other two ships currently in my fleet are a class 4 fluyt and a class 4 light East Indiaman, and they are both also smaller than that old pinnace.
Since that pinnace is also used for class 1,2,& 3 ships perhaps it is time to rethink it's suitability in class 5. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/76702168/POTC screenies/NL_Pinnace-5.jpg
 
Your Battle Sails layout looks good to me, at least for ships of this kind. The only change is one of the yards on the bowsprit, right?
For frigates and ships-of-the-line of the later periods, you will no doubt have to talk to Post Captain and/or Captain Armstrong.

About that pinnace: it's hard to know how to reclassify it against other ships, really. It counts as a class 5 'Merchant', the Fluyt is a class 4 'Merchant', and the Light East Indiaman is a class 4 'Balanced ship', so the class numbers have varied meanings. The most obvious thing to do is adjust its capacity relative to the fluyt, I guess.
The class system is really getting on my nerves. It's frustrating that the same numbers having very different meanings. :facepalm
What I'd really like to see is a complete re-think of the class system (I know, for the umpteenth time!) so we can somehow make it more meaningful.
For example, what if every ship had two ratings: one for its combat capabilities, and another for its merchant capabilities.

The combat rating might take into account hull strength, cannon quantity/calibre and manoeuvrability, and the merchant rating might consider top speed and cargo capacity.
My reasoning is this: a navy ship needs to be resistant to enemy fire, able to deal a good amount of damage, and able to manoeuvre in order to fire effectively.
A merchant ship needs to be able to deliver a large amount of goods in the least amount of time, hence high capacity and speed are desirable.

This is just a quick brainstorm of ideas, but I reckon it might balance things out a bit and give the ships more meaningful ratings.
 
Not if the numbers were textured on to the ship interface screenshots. Then we'd only need a side note to explain the ratings.

I know, that still leaves the problem of the textured numbers on the Battle Interface images you encounter at sea.
What about this as a simplified idea: the two new ratings are more like guidelines which help the player to decide whether the ship is right for their play style.
However, the traditional class number is changed to only reflect the size (or crew size) of the ship. This lets the player know whether they can captain the ship effectively based on their level.
That way, the class number is still used, has a simplified meaning, and the only interface update would be to explain its meaning and the two extra ratings.
 
I was not talking about that pinnace's statistics. It's statistics are consistent with a class 5 merchant ship. But its sheer size is what I was talking about. It is physically much larger than the class 4 Revenge, which has a larger crew and many more and larger cannons.
That model needs to be shrunk by 1/3rd.

As for combat capabilities all one needs to do is look at the crew size and number of cannons to decide if it is what is wanted.
 
Hmm... resizing models is a massive pain, as I'm sure I've explained before. Wouldn't it be easier to adjust the stats to better reflect the ship's size, at least for now?

Point taken about players looking at the ships' stats. So scrapping the proposed extra ratings, does anyone object to changing the class number to reflect crew size?
The idea is, the player is restricted on what they can effectively captain by their 'captain level' (or whatever it's meant to be called; the little number with a ship next to it),
so the class number should relate to this. A larger crew is harder to captain, no?
 
Adjusting the stats would bring the Pinnace up to a class 3 merchant ship. That would be a rich prize!

Since hull size and the number and size of cannons are what sets crew size, that might work. A brig with 120 crew would be in the same class as a pinnace with 120 crew for instance.
 
So are you saying there won't be enough pirate vessels of medium size if the Light Indiaman is scrapped?
I reckon the pirate ship usage needs to be checked from top to bottom really, since there are probably still too many medium/large ships being used, when they should be using mostly smaller vessels.

As for the class system, I'll make a draft version and upload it so we can decide whether it looks sensible or not.
 
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