How not to kill guards at El Morro

[Grey Roger]

Towards the end of the story, if you've chosen to help Bartolomeu earlier and are now involved with Henry Morgan's scheme to steal the Aztec treasure, your part in the assault on the El Morro fort is to sneak around a large field, killing the guards before blowing up the cannons. You have to kill all the guards without any of them being alerted and running off to sound an alarm. To this end, you're equipped with poisoned throwing knives. These take a long time to kill a guard and for a while I thought they didn't work at all.

So I tried throwing cobblestones at them instead. This knocks the guard out cold, then I can go up to him and finish him off with the sword. After I'd taken out all the guards this way, the red flashing indicating a battle in progress was still there, the quest book did not update and I wasn't able to proceed to blowing up cannons. Searching the whole area didn't turn up any guards I'd missed.

I'd saved game just after being teleported to the field and before trying to attack anyone, so I reloaded that. Plan B was to simply run up to a guard and hit him repeatedly with a sword to kill him before he could hit me back or run away, and that actually worked. I killed all the guards, the quest book updated, and I was able to continue on to setting bombs. Reloading the game and trying again with cobblestones gave the same result as before - the game didn't recognise that all the guards were dead. Both forms of attack were repeated with consistent results - if the guards were first stunned with cobblestones then the fight didn't end, if I just charged and sworded them then it did.

It turned out that poisoned throwing knives do work, eventually. I threw one, left the computer while I went to make a cup of coffee, and returned just in time for the guard to fall over. Not wanting to spend all night taking guards out that way, I ran round and sworded them all again, then continued with the rest of the game.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

LOL! Sounds like you've been having glorious fun!

I think the guards need to actually be DEAD for the quest to continue. If you use cobblestones, then the guards will only be knocked out and not dead.
So indeed you having to kill them manually afterwards sounds about right. Would you not get a massive reputation drop for that, though?

@Bartolomeu o Portugues: What do you think of this method of playing through this quest scene?

If we do want to force the player to use Poisoned Throwing Knives, perhaps we can use my Blackbeard trick?
He has godmode enabled which is only disabled when you poison him some way.
That would allow the guards themselves to have very low HP so that you don't need to wait too long for the poison to kill them.

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

The easy solution is to lower their hp to 20 instead of 80 in the quests_reaction.c
I'll do the change in the file I'll send you this week-end.

 

[Grey Roger]

LOL! Sounds like you've been having glorious fun!

Oh yes, this is definitely a fun storyline!

I think the guards need to actually be DEAD for the quest to continue. If you use cobblestones, then the guards will only be knocked out and not dead.
So indeed you having to kill them manually afterwards sounds about right. Would you not get a massive reputation drop for that, though?

As I said, I knock the guards out with cobblestones, then finish them off with a sword. They are dead. I don't lose reputation, certainly not massively. And the game fails to recognise that the battle is over. The fact that I can consistently proceed to the next part if I hit the guards with a sword without stoning them first, and consistently can't proceed if they are stoned before they're sworded, is evidence that I'm not simply missing out a guard.

If we do want to force the player to use Poisoned Throwing Knives, perhaps we can use my Blackbeard trick?
He has godmode enabled which is only disabled when you poison him some way.
That would allow the guards themselves to have very low HP so that you don't need to wait too long for the poison to kill them.

I don't like being forced to do things a specific way unless there's a very good plot-related reason. If it's possible to kill the guards just by running up to them and whacking them repeatedly with a sword before they have a chance to react, why waste time blocking it? Blackbeard is a special character so perhaps has special abilities, but these are just supposed to be basic soldiers, aren't they?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't like being forced to do things a specific way unless there's a very good plot-related reason. If it's possible to kill the guards just by running up to them and whacking them repeatedly with a sword before they have a chance to react, why waste time blocking it? Blackbeard is a special character so perhaps has special abilities, but these are just supposed to be basic soldiers, aren't they?

True. I know Bartolomeu was trying to create some variety in his storylines by making use of the different special weapons and getting the player to use those.
I still remember that playing one of his "stealth" levels is a very different experience from just whacking at everything that moves.
So there is that....

And @Bartolomeu o Portugues: How about positioning the player on the roof of a building some time and giving him a musket?
That one now has Shotgun Mode enabled by pressing Tab, so you can play as a proper sniper!

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

That one now has Shotgun Mode enabled by pressing Tab, so you can play as a proper sniper!

What?! I didn't know! a sniper mod? How to do that? I want that for the San Felipe fight. The player could kill soldiers below him from the top of the fort.

 

[Grey Roger]

True. I know Bartolomeu was trying to create some variety in his storylines by making use of the different special weapons and getting the player to use those.
I still remember that playing one of his "stealth" levels is a very different experience from just whacking at everything that moves.
So there is that....

You already get to use poisoned throwing knives much earlier on when you have to kill the fort commander during the first mission. Chico hands you a couple specifically for that purpose. Besides, this isn't exactly whacking everything that moves - partly because the guards aren't moving, if they are then you've already failed. You have to hit them harder and quicker than during a normal fight, otherwise the alarm sounds and you lose. That challenge makes a good alternative to throwing a knife and waiting for ages.

And @Bartolomeu o Portugues: How about positioning the player on the roof of a building some time and giving him a musket?
That one now has Shotgun Mode enabled by pressing Tab, so you can play as a proper sniper!

That would make a good alternative way to kill the fort commander in the first mission, or the French captain in the "Alliance" section. However, a musket was not an accurate weapon, so wasn't really a sniper rifle. And the "Assassin" story is set in the 1660's, when muskets were matchlocks. This may be why the musket is not available in that time period in the game, which in turn is probably why I never saw one during my recent play through the story. (Plenty of musket ammo lying around, just nothing with which to fire it!)

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

That would make a good alternative way to kill the fort commander in the first mission, or the French captain in the "Alliance" section.

Frankly, this part I like as it is. I don't really want to change anything about this.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What?! I didn't know! a sniper mod? How to do that? I want that for the San Felipe fight. The player could kill soldiers below him from the top of the fort.

Should be as simple as giving the player a "musket". Unless I am very much mistaken, I enabled the "Tab" button for the musket so you can snipe with it.
Completely accurate? Perhaps not. But could be fun! I always imagined you doing something with that feature for your storylines.

You already get to use poisoned throwing knives much earlier on when you have to kill the fort commander during the first mission. Chico hands you a couple specifically for that purpose. Besides, this isn't exactly whacking everything that moves - partly because the guards aren't moving, if they are then you've already failed. You have to hit them harder and quicker than during a normal fight, otherwise the alarm sounds and you lose. That challenge makes a good alternative to throwing a knife and waiting for ages.

So you have to sneak up on them and kill them in one hit? OUCH! You'd better have a good blade/gun with you then!

However, a musket was not an accurate weapon, so wasn't really a sniper rifle. And the "Assassin" story is set in the 1660's, when muskets were matchlocks. This may be why the musket is not available in that time period in the game, which in turn is probably why I never saw one during my recent play through the story.

Yep, very true. The muskets only show up later for period accuracy.

Me using the word "sniping" is perhaps not correct. I just meant that you can use a first-person aiming interface when using the musket now.

Plenty of musket ammo lying around, just nothing with which to fire it!

Ouch! I can imagine that.
Please make a Bug Tracker entry for that one so I remember to put a sensible if-statement around those items.

That being said.... if we DO want to use the musket for quest purposes, then they would need ammo too. And they can't use it if it isn't there.
Perhaps I should make musket ammo "unique" in the earlier time periods.

 

[Grey Roger]

So you have to sneak up on them and kill them in one hit? OUCH! You'd better have a good blade/gun with you then!

Or hit them repeatedly and quickly. None of the usual "press 'block', wait till he hits you, hit him back" routine. Hit him, hit him, hit him, and hopefully he drops dead before he gets to hit you back. It worked for me.

Me using the word "sniping" is perhaps not correct. I just meant that you can use a first-person aiming interface when using the musket now.

The proposed use, i.e. sitting on a rooftop taking one shot by yourself at a target, is exactly "sniping". And not something you'd do with a 17th century musket. Here is a manual on how to use a musket in the English Civil War. Standard practice was to have a line of people firing them all at once, then hopefully someone would hit something.

But Musketeers existed in the 17th century

Yes, matchlock muskets.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

When using the poisoned throwing knife a double tap on the R button speeds things up nicely.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Discussion on quest use of Shotgun Mode moved here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/custom-quest-musket.24428/

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Discussion on quest use of Shotgun Mode moved here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/custom-quest-musket.24428/