Flag Locators Repair Project

[Hylie Pistof]

Anything in my folder in the new FTP can be considered good. When Armada gets back I'm going to ask him to fix the spankers on the light frigates. Once those are changed over they will be done.

The files in the old FTP have been worked on but not verified as far as GA is concerned.

 

[Black Bart]

Ok Hylie, i'll grab as much stuff of the new ftp(.com one) as i can today. I'm still playing through the main quest storyline so won't be sailing any new ships just yet, but in terms of GA etc i'll keep you posted

And what's been happening on the possible Forts flag contribution to GA? I noticed in Ships_init.c right at the end of the file is a whole section that deals with the forts, so that might be worth looking at to see if anything looks a little odd or could be connected to the Forts flag issues?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm back home now and find I have forgotten what I was doing. ops2 I played for a few minutes last night and it looks like I was working on a class6 corvette and about to start on a class 1 Spanish battlegalleon. The Brigantina needs to be done as well as the Xebecs. I need to prioritize which ships to do next. Does anyone have any requests?

You don't need to sail the ships or get into battles. Sailing past Barbados gives me information because there is usually something going on. Bonaire and Philipsburg usually have some action too. If GA starts happening it is enough to note which ships are involved and their condition. That is how I found out about the cutter.

Black Bart: do you have this list?

 

[Black Bart]

I got the list(just need the excel compatability file to read it! which i'm donwloading now), and will check it over.

I put all your newer ships files(from the new ftp) in the game now. I also did get some very small scale GA on leaving La Granada, i couldn't see any battles in view, but i did get a report of a ship surrendering. I also had just changed my sails from the normal white type to the custom red+black vertical striped one before setting sail from port. I've also just had a thought re the GA issues and will use the picture attached to highlight it better.

Also in the pic you will see an error on the flags of the high-lighted Lugger; not sure if it is one you have worked on not! But i saw two main flags(so two the same) and a pennant on the main central mast of that particular ship. In the background you can see my own Lugger and all the flags are fine on that one(pennant-flag-pennant), and the other Luggers i have encounterd all follow the correct pattern, not sure which Lugger this is to be like that?

Going back to the GA issues, i've high-lighted a point on the mast of the Lugger around which all the GA effects are focused on, in that all the mush of graphics will always draw through that point on the mast. It is the part of the mast where the cordage of the standing rigging is attached to the mast, and it got me thinking on when the standing rigging was put on these ships, iirc i don't think we used to have any? And it might be a good experiment to see if on the other ships the GA mush also centres on that joining point of the standing rigging on the main mast? I'll include this wiki link about rigging so everyone knows what i mean by standing rigging(just in case), it's mentioned in the 'Cordage' section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigging

And here is the pic to examine for the flag error and my developing theory on the GA issues(or some of them):

In general the GA is much less obvious and constant in the game, but it is still around so i'm going to throw this theory out there and ask if before the GA issues did we have this standing rigging on the models?

 

[Armada]

I wonder if the forts have the NoPennants line. Or alternatively, if they need it.
Because they DON'T have "penn" locators.

All I could find about pennants in the Ships_init entry was this line for forts:

bool bNoPennants = GetCurrentPeriod() < GetPeriodFromYear(makeint(PENNANTS_MIN_YEAR)); // KK

I'm not 100% sure what that line does, but if it doesn't act like the 'NoPennants' line, then maybe it needs it.
I'll try it out and see what happens.

When Armada gets back I'm going to ask him to fix the spankers on the light frigates.

I'll take that as your request.
What I really want to do is replace the current stock spankers with better ones from imported custom ships.
The Corvette ones in particular look a bit wonky, so this is especially relevant. I'll try one or two candidates and see if they look good on the Corvettes.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

AARRGGHH!!

That is the Lugger CT. It is in the middle of the list and I failed to clean up its flag/pennant lines in the individual masts. Which is odd because several of them used it as their base. I'll fix it and post a new file in the FTP soon. It will not be a standalone but all of them together.

One thing I have noticed is that ships that look ok at sea but have an issue somewhere will look odd in port.


Welcome back Armada, and just do it.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

OK, the repaired Luggers are on the FTP as V2 and I also added the Ships_init.c from Patch 6 so that P7 WIP is not required.

After doing what I forgot to do the 1st time around I played POTC. At Pointe A Pitre while on the dock all ships were showing nothing but flags including 3 luggers, except one ship that I have not repaired yet.

Then sailed to Speightstown without seeing any luggers, so bought one there. On the dock it looked good and at sea it looked good. Other luggers seen at sea also looked good. When I docked at Marigot it still looked good, so I will provisionally call them good until someone finds another error.


edit: The Naval Topsail Schooner (schoonerwar1_18) is ok as far as the flags go. It has almost no ropes and its sails point the wrong way, but the flags are good!

edit: The Brigantina seems to be good too. I made some changes so these two ships are on the new FTP.

 

[Black Bart]

So when you find a model with the sails wrong, is that a quick thing to fix? And good job on the quick work on these ships, i'm getting the new LuggerCT and those others just now

What do you think on my theory that the rigging might be contributing to GA? If it was all added at a later date compared to the stock ships and that timeline fits in with when the GA issue first arose(so after build 12 Full sometime iirc).

edit: and just to be sure, the schoonerwar1_18 has fixed sails now or just the flags?

edit2: The new LuggerCT you put on the ftp(new one) fixed the flag issue in that pic

 

[Talisman]

What do you think on my theory that the rigging might be contributing to GA? If it was all added at a later date compared to the stock ships and that timeline fits in with when the GA issue first arose(so after build 12 Full sometime iirc).

As far as I can recall the GA first started to appear with Build 14 Alpha 9.5 patch 3 or 4 - when the Different Flags Mod was released. - there were no problems before then.

It could be the Flags mod increases any errors in the rigging and makes them visable thus increasing the chance / severity of the GA.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

BB: Bad rigging might make it easier for the GA to start. The ships with the worst GA also have messed up rigging like Batavia 1, the class 3 Light East Indiaman. That is what got me started on this. I just wanted to clean up the rigging to reduce or eliminate the bad rope errors in the logs. Then things kinda snowballed........ But the real culprit is the flags. They are easy enough to repair now that I'm starting to see the path that needs to be followed. The thing is that every single ship needs to be looked at and only the bad ones repaired and posted.



Sails: When I say the sails are wrong I mean the spanker or lateen is pointing against the wind instead of with the wind. There are currently three ways to deal with them.

Quick and dirty: By putting a - sign in front of one number in one sails' GM file the spanker is reversed and points in the right direction. This also gives it the reverse lighting bug, but I can do all of the ships in an hour.

Complicated: By creating 2 spankers, one invisible and one visible it is possible to double reverse them and get them to point in the right direction and not have the reverse lighting bug. Depending on the ship this might take 2 hours or 2 days per ship. The light frigates are currently like this.

Maya: If the offending spanker is run through Maya properly it will work as intended. Armada is the one doing that.


The schoonerwar1_18 and the Brigantina both need more work. Their flags are now ok but their rigging and sails suck.

I'm torn on this. Should I concentrate on the flags for now and come back to these ships later, or give them the full treatment now and be done with them? Opinions? I'm looking forward to just kicking back and happily stringing ropes. :yoho

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All I could find about pennants in the Ships_init entry was this line for forts:

bool bNoPennants = GetCurrentPeriod() < GetPeriodFromYear(makeint(PENNANTS_MIN_YEAR)); // KK

I'm not 100% sure what that line does, but if it doesn't act like the 'NoPennants' line, then maybe it needs it.
I'll try it out and see what happens.

That line triggers this:

if (bNoPennants) refShip.Flags.NoPennants = true; // KK

Bit useless, really. I wouldn't want no pennants to be used. :wacko:

 

[Black Bart]

BB: Bad rigging might make it easier for the GA to start. The ships with the worst GA also have messed up rigging like Batavia 1, the class 3 Light East Indiaman. That is what got me started on this. I just wanted to clean up the rigging to reduce or eliminate the bad rope errors in the logs. Then things kinda snowballed........ But the real culprit is the flags. They are easy enough to repair now that I'm starting to see the path that needs to be followed. The thing is that every single ship needs to be looked at and only the bad ones repaired and posted.

Sails: When I say the sails are wrong I mean the spanker or lateen is pointing against the wind instead of with the wind. There are currently three ways to deal with them.

Quick and dirty: By putting a - sign in front of one number in one sails' GM file the spanker is reversed and points in the right direction. This also gives it the reverse lighting bug, but I can do all of the ships in an hour.

Complicated: By creating 2 spankers, one invisible and one visible it is possible to double reverse them and get them to point in the right direction and not have the reverse lighting bug. Depending on the ship this might take 2 hours or 2 days per ship. The light frigates are currently like this.

Maya: If the offending spanker is run through Maya properly it will work as intended. Armada is the one doing that.

The schoonerwar1_18 and the Brigantina both need more work. Their flags are now ok but their rigging and sails suck.

I'm torn on this. Should I concentrate on the flags for now and come back to these ships later, or give them the full treatment now and be done with them? Opinions? I'm looking forward to just kicking back and happily stringing ropes. :yoho

Cheers for all that, i find it very interesting what people are doing and how etc

As for your closing comment, we have the list of ships that might get cut at some point; so how about doing the full treatment on those you know will be staying and don't have the reverse lighting problem? I'm not sure how many that will be, but trying to fully fix a few ships, so you don't have to go back later, is slow but good progress i would think?

In terms of the ships with reverse lighting issues, you could always just do the flags on those(and rigging cleaning up etc) and pass them on to Armada to do the Maya magic with? Anyway just my thoughts on that particular issue, feel free to ignore and carry on as you prefer

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Well yes, that is my question. Full speed ahead on the GA and have it fixed for everyone or slow progress that will take months to complete?

For instance, I've taken on that Spanish Battlegalleon as a personal project. The flags are fixed and the camera issue is being worked on. Just about ready to start on the rigging and sails too. This one ship could take a week. Now multiply that by 200...............

 

[morgan terror]

4 years at best. nice.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I was exaggerating of course. Many ships need no work at all and many that do need work can't be worked on.

I've just looked into the Naval Sloop and the Naval Bermuda Sloop. I observed them causing GA in game but could do nothing at all to repair them, plus when I demasted them nothing happened. That goes for the Xebecs too. I have seen them cause GA, but there is nothing in their files that looks wrong.

It's hard to say because I still haven't looked at the big ships, but we could be nearly halfway done already. The hardest part now is identifying the problem ships.

 

[Black Bart]

What do you think on my theory that the rigging might be contributing to GA? If it was all added at a later date compared to the stock ships and that timeline fits in with when the GA issue first arose(so after build 12 Full sometime iirc).

As far as I can recall the GA first started to appear with Build 14 Alpha 9.5 patch 3 or 4 - when the Different Flags Mod was released. - there were no problems before then.

It could be the Flags mod increases any errors in the rigging and makes them visable thus increasing the chance / severity of the GA.

Anyone else confirm this? That it started to happen after the 'Different Flags Mod'? If so have we tried commenting that mod out and testing if all the GA has gone? It might be worth fixing/looking at the code of that mod further if we want to include it, if it IS the source of the GA?

And i have lots of GA recently, so it does seem to come and go depending on something being in game or not(ship type etc?). Anyway i was getting quite a bit of GA action coming into Barbados having direct-sailed from Jamaica. I couldn't see the detail of which ships were fighting, but pleanty was going on from all the updates on surrenders and various clouds of smoke from cannon fire i could see all around the island on approach to Bridgetown. The fort was involved also as there were two groups of pirates at either side of the island it seemed.

Anyway i sneak my way into the port area, and apart from the normal GA that had been cluttering my screen, i saw this group of thin brown lines hanging in the sky above the mountain. I couldn't get two screenshots to show you from a different angel, but you could pan the camera around your ship and these were definately high up in the sky, seemingly pointing in the direction of the mountain top(or maybe over the other side where a battle had been taking place?). I'd never seen this before and the composition of this GA would fluctuate slightly, in that the brown lines would shift about a little bit but always maintain the general geometry you can see in the screenshot. At first i thought 'Aha fort flags!', but looking where it was i could see no obvious connection(geometry wise) to the forts flag pole? Anyway anyone else seen these GA before?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

That's Bridgetown, right? I hate that place. For me it is commonly a very thick gray column coming out of the water between the fort and the dock. It just sits there, and it has a ray coming from it to you underwater. As you move around that ray follows you. k

The GA can get so bad that the only way to navigate is to watch the radar in the good compass. But you can't fire cannons anyway because the gunsight is gone due to excessive GA. Did I say I hate that place?





Two days ago I was trying to get TOOL to save a GM without corrupting it. I tried all of the compatibility modes. TOOL would not start in win 98 mode but it ran in all of the others I tried like XP SP2, XP SP3, NT, server 2003, server 2008, and Vista. But it corrupted the GM every time.

Last night I noticed something different about the flags on the NL_Batavia1 or the class 3 light east Indiaman. So I captured one (they are very common in this game) and looked at it in GMViewer and TOOL. Now TOOL could not read the masts of that ship before so I could do nothing with it, but last night it worked! :will So I wasted an evening trying to get the flags working so it would not have GA. My conclusion is that this ship is not compatible with POTC and should be remasted like Batavia2 or dumped. The only good thing I accomplished was that it no longer seems to give GA, but is ugly with no flags or both flag and pennant per mast.



But the big news is that TOOL now works better! :ty Could another TOOL user confirm or deny this? :b:

 

[morgan terror]

i can confirm that the forts seem to be part of the problem, in any case. i actually saw a sort of spinning propeller-like GA last time. simply getting near a fort seems to trigger the bug. puerto rico had a few columns and the propeller, but port au prince had the proximity bug. the columns seem to be centered on the island's locator, oddly enough, or at least something like that. i think the fort-related version of this bug can only be solved once we find the source. fixing the ships works, but it's more of a fix for the consequences rather than the cause.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Who would know something about the forts? I don't want to stop working on the ships yet. There is still a lot to learn with them.

 

[Armada]

But the big news is that TOOL now works better! :ty Could another TOOL user confirm or deny this? :b:

So, which compatibility mode are you suggesting to use?
I just tried XP, and could open the Batavia masts fine, but I could do the same with Vista. I couldn't open any more 'corrupt' files than before...

As for the forts, I'm eager to know if Pieter's suggestion would work, as follows:
Find the 'FORT' entry at the bottom of ships_init.c, and then find this section:

refShip.CanEncounter	= false;
SHIP_TYPES_QUANTITY_WITH_FORT = SHIP_FORT+1;

Replace with:

refShip.Flags.NoPennants = true; // GA fix?
refShip.CanEncounter	= false;
SHIP_TYPES_QUANTITY_WITH_FORT = SHIP_FORT+1;

Now, press F11 in-game, and see if it helps. If it does, then that has to be the easiest fix yet.