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American Flag Complaint

Legendary_Spider

Why is the rum always gone?
2D Artist
Provisional
Storm Modder
What's up with the American flag in the game? The stars are all screwed up for that time period, there are more than 13 stripes, and there are blue stripes on the flag. I'm a patriot and this makes me sad. Someone please fix the US flag. I wanna see an accurate depiction of my country's flag just as the other countries have.

I have noticed the American forts have the flag right, but for some reason, the ships have it wrong.

For example, when playing the "Master and Commander" storyline, you begin the game with an American flag flying off the stern, but the stars, number and color of stripes are incorrect.

Please help. Hopefully, this won't be a tough fix.

Thank you for your attention in this matter. :) I love this game.
 
All flags in the game were carefully selected to be historically correct and distinguish between known merchant and navy ensigns as best as possible.
Though, if I recall, for the sake of having some distinction between merchant and navy flags for the US, we might've taken a different US flag from around that time period.

In any case, if you say you like the fort one, go to RESOURCE\Textures\flags and replace shppnt5.tga.tx with frtflg5.tga.tx .
That should put the fort flags on the navy ships.
 
The American flag is an ever changing flag and maybe I can clear up some confusion about it. The two storylines with the United States in them are 1777 and 1793.

This flag was used from 1776 - 1795. a.k.a. the Betsy Ross Flag.

post-15630-0-78695400-1303287174_thumb.gif


These two flags are 1777 variants.


post-15630-0-77208700-1303287336_thumb.gif


and

post-15630-0-63614900-1303287345_thumb.gif


This flag I commonly see on American ships, is a 1779 variant commonly called the Serapis flag.

post-15630-0-61336600-1303287735_thumb.gif


From Wikipedia:

At the Battle of Flamborough Head, U.S. Navy Captain John Paul Jones captured the Serapis, but his own ship, the Bonhomme Richard sank, and her ensign had been blown from the mast into the sea during the battle. Jones, now commanding the Serapis without an ensign, sailed to the island port of Texel, which was run by the neutral United Provinces. Officials from the United Kingdom argued that Jones was a pirate, since he sailed a captured vessel flying no known national ensign.
A year earlier, Arthur Lee, American commissioner in France, wrote in a letter to Henry Laurens that the U.S. ships' "colors should be white, red, and blue alternately to thirteen" with a "blue field with thirteen stars" in the canton. Benjamin Franklin and John Adams, ambassadors to France, wrote a similar description of United States flags:
"It is with pleasure that we acquaint your excellency that the flag of the United States of America consists of thirteen stripes, alternately red, white, and blue; a small square in the upper angle, next the flagstaff, is a blue field, with thirteen white stars, denoting a new constellation."
Apparently based upon this description, a recognizable ensign was quickly made to fly aboard the Serapis, and Dutch records edited to include a sketch of the ensign to make it official. The Dutch could, therefore, recognize the flag, solving the legal problem of Jones' pirated ship. The Dutch records survive and provide us with the original sketch of the ensign. The sketch is labeled "Serapis" and dated 5 October 1779, just one day after the Francis Hopkinson style flag, labeled "Alliance" (a ship in Jones' fleet), was entered.
There are five known illustrations of American flags with tri-color stripes. Tri-colored stripes appeared in various European almanacs into the 19th century, featuring stars with 4, 5, or 6 points and arranged in various patterns. The Serapis flag is distinctive because of the four, irregularly placed blue stripes and 8-pointed stars. Although it was flown as a U.S. Ensign and was recognized as such by a foreign nation, it did not meet the Congressional description of U.S. flags under the Flag Resolution of 1777, which specified "alternate red and white" stripes.

Then finally in 1795, the Betsy Ross flag was replaced with this 15 star version.

http://117.53.155.31/~pahoy/forum/uploads/monthly_04_2011/post-15630-0-02256800-1303288201_thumb.gif

Except for the American forts, which have the Betsy Ross Flags, all the American ships seem to have the Serapis flag. Which works fine for the 1793 storyline, but for the 1777 storyline, flying the Serapis flag would be innacurrate since the Serapis flag did not come into being until 1779.

Sorry for totally nerding out, but I'm a stickler for history. Especially American history. I would like to hopefully see this fixed in future mods or packs. As always thank you for your time and work. :)

P.S. for future mods, could you possibly do some American missions? Like something involving the USS Constitution(old ironsides) would be really cool. Also, I would love to see more American ships. :)

Ok I'm done. lol :p
 
So I'm guessing then, that you want the Betsy Ross flag in the period beginning 1777, correct?
If so, I can make the change for you and put it in the ship pack as a last-minute addition. :yes

Simply replacing shpflg5 with frtflg5 is not the best solution, because it affects other nations flags as well.
So I'll modify shpflg5 specifically for the US.

What I will say, however, is that the flags are most likely chosen to match the periods closely, but not necessarily perfectly.
In some cases, history is too complex to portray 100% accurately in-game. :facepalm

As for US ships, I agree that we have too few of them, and too few names for the AI to choose from as well. (perhaps you could help with the latter...?)
I'm doing what I can to add/improve US textures to some of our ships where possible, and making sure they appear in the right periods. ;)
Some work on the mast and yard textures was already included in previous packs/patches to this effect.
 
That last minute change would be awesome! :) Just for me? Awww, I feel special. :D

Technically, the Betsy Ross flag would work just fine for both the 1777 and 1793 storylines, since it was used till 1795. If possible, I would suggest using the Besty Ross flag for the 1777 storyline and the Serapis flag for the 1793 storyline. But if you can only use one, the Betsy Ross flag is historically accurate for both. Personally, if it were up to me, I would just use the Betsy Ross flag for both storylines. Never been a big fan of the Serapis flag. lol

I'd be happy to research some American ships within 1777 - 1793 for you if you want. How could I help with names? I'd be happy to help with with whatever I can. I am at your service :)

Thank you for your attention in this matter. I'm a patriot. :)

P.S. If you ever make any storylines past 1795, here's a link that will help you keep the American flag accurate: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagfact.html
Maybe you could even go into the 1800's? An American mission or two would be cool. Idk just a thought for future mods. :)

Here's another pic of the Betsy Ross flag in case you need reference or something.
 
That last minute change would be awesome! :) Just for me? Awww, I feel special. :D
It's more in the interests of historical accuracy, and I'm sure you won't be the only one pleased by the change. ;)
I'll probably go for the Betsy Ross for the 1777 storyline, and then leave the current 1793 one as it is (the Betsy Ross' successor).

How could I help with names? I'd be happy to help with with whatever I can. I am at your service :)
To help with the names, all you'd need to do is find the file 'ships_name.c' in PROGRAM/Ships, and scroll all the way down until you see this code:

Code:
// American names
n = 0;
n = AddStr2Array(&sRndShpAmName, n, "Adams,Alfred,America,Andrew Doria,Annapolis,Baltimore,Betsy Ross...
Then, you simply need to add names to the list! It doesn't matter where they go, but if you start a new line, be sure to copy the stuff from the beginning and end of the previous line, otherwise it won't work.
The more names you add, the merrier. It just spices up the variety of names you encounter at sea. :keith
Anything you can do will be appreciated! :onya

Maybe you could even go into the 1800's? An American mission or two would be cool. Idk just a thought for future mods. :)
The final game period, which includes the 1793 storyline, does carry on until 1820 (you'll have to play for MANY hours to reach that, but still...).
A US storyline would be great! What a storyline needs is a well-developed concept and someone willing to work on it (preferably in good English, too).
Mostly, we tend to say "Do it yourself", because most of the modders here are far too busy nowadays. Luckily, you can get plenty of help with coding, and it's easy to do once you get the idea of things.
So what I'm saying is, if you ever do think of a brilliant idea for a storyline, start a thread about it, but be prepared to put a lot of your own time into it. :hmm
 
I was researching it more, and technically, this flag (below) is the Betsy Ross flag's successor. This is the "official" one used from 1777 - 1795. It has 13 stars like the Betsy Ross flag, but in a different arrangement. I don't even think this flag is in the game, and I don't know how tough it is to make flags, so it'd probably just be easier to stick with the Betsy Ross and Serapis flags.



The US flag changed so much in the early days I don't know how they managed to keep it all straight. lol

Sorry if I'm being a total pain in the butt. I don't mean to be.
 
I found a bunch of names of American sailing ships in that time period, so I'm gonna put them into my game. If anyone else wants them, here is the list I made:

Note: American ships have a "USS" before the name



Alliance
Bonhomme Richard
Boston
Bourbon
Confederacy
Congress
Deane
Delaware
Effingham
Hancock
Montgomery
Providence
Raleigh
Randolph
Serapis
Trumbull
Virginia
Warren
Washington
Adams
Baltimore
Brandywine
Chesapeake
Columbia
Congress
Connecticut
Constellation
Constitution
Cumberland
Cyane
Delaware
Enterprise
Essex
Ganges
General Greene
Geaorge Washington
Guerriere
Hudson
Independence
Insurgent
Java
John Adams
Macedonian
Merrimack
Mohawk
Montezuma
New York
Philadephia
Plattburg
Portsmouth
Potomac
President
Raritan
Sabine
Santee
Savannah
St. Lawrence
Superior
United States
America
Pennsylvania
Hornet
Maryland
Providence

That should do. Enjoy! :)
 
I was researching it more, and technically, this flag (below) is the Betsy Ross flag's successor.
That is the one used in last game period. :yes That's why I'm not changing it.

I found a bunch of names of American sailing ships in that time period, so I'm gonna put them into my game.
If you could adjust the file I mentioned and upload it, then that would be even better. Saves me the extra work on top of finishing the ship pack... :wp
 
Ah you're right. Only the 1777 storyline needs to be fixed. I don't know why the Serapis flag is even in the 1777 storyline then. :p The Serapis flag (the weird one with blue stripes) didn't exist at that point in time anyway.

Here's the updated ship file with some more american names for you. I hope I can do more for guys. I'm happy to help with anything. :)

I'm still researching some more American ships that could possibly go in a future ship pack.
 
The "USS" prefix is automatically added to all US NAVY ship names, but not the merchant ones.

Please keep the NUMBER of names on each line the same as the other lines, otherwise it might not work right.
 
Ok here we go. I fixed it. Each line has the same number of names. :) Now it should be ok. Right?
 
Hopefully that should work fine now. Or rather, it had better work, for the trouble I've had to go through to re-compress the whole ship pack, ready for uploading. :whipa

Which reminds me... would you be interested in being a guinea pig for a bit, as per this post?
 
If you could follow the link "this post" above, and then download the trial version of the ship pack, I'd appreciate your help testing it. :onya
You'll see how miklkit has posted reports already, and he'd like confirmation from someone other than me. I thought you'd be a good candidate to test it (provided you have the Xmas pack).
 
Do we have any pics of the new flag yet? I've been wanting to see how it turned out (my second favorite flag right behind the Jolly Roger, lol)
 
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