Build 14 Alpha 8

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=270912:date=Jul 29 2008, 12:49 AM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 12:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=270912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All locations (the tavern, store, shipyard, governor's office, tailor...) on Eleuthera are deserted! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> There are <i>loads</i> of American admirals, captains, and lieutenants at the docks (which is ironic... since there there were only a handfull of commissioned captains and a few commodores... the rest of us Yanks were privateers) and a handfull of armed civilians within the port's walls... but that's it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's interesting. As far as I know Eleuthera DOES have a store owner, but he's missing his dialog file at the moment.
As far as navy officers are concerned, right now it's either lots of them or none of them. I only enabled them for Eleuthera port because I wanted to test if they'd work.

<!--quoteo(post=270922:date=Jul 29 2008, 02:45 AM:name=Osama_Bin_Llama)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Osama_Bin_Llama @ Jul 29 2008, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=270922"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->okies had alpha 7 just did what I was told as far as dumping alpha 8 in the thingy, extracted, overwrote, and then did the runme.bat thingy.
now when I start a new character at least with jack sparrow, I get a black screen and nothin else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's not right. Please <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=9234" target="_blank">enable error logging</a> and tell me what's in error.log and system.log.

 

[potnky]

<!--QuoteBegin- JPJ+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( JPJ)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that one of the biggest advantages of being an American would be the quality of ships and offcers. While other ships are good, American-built vessels could have that extra edge over other nation's vessels that gives the USA a purpose. Afterall... that was one of the largest concerns of other world powers once America stepped onto the world stage. Our superfrigates were almost unbeatable, especially due to the heart and soul of our crews and officers. Figures such as John Paul Jones and Stephen Decatur were some of the boldest and most daring officers of the age, and when given a well-built ship... that made quite a problem for America's enemies. So, I would make American ship's stats better than other nations and would give American characters higher reputations, more skill points, and more expierence. They need to be some of the best sailors, navigators, and leaders around... (and though Americans were often more accurate gunners, I'd let the British have better gunnery skills because they could reload so quickly.) The downside of high quality is a higher price. The American Treasury certainly felt the difference in their wallet after paying for the six frigates. So I'd make American ships and officers cost the players more money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I protest. The French design better ships in terms of speed and gunnery. And this is quite blatantly a lopsided argument based on your own patriotism. It is made up of generalisations and self-promotion "Some of the best sailors, navigators , and leaders around', indeed!

At any rate, I do feel unhappy that HMS Nelson wouldn't work with the current Tool. I would've liked to help, but there you go. Looks very good, though I do hope that there is non-linear gameplay. At the same time, the quests do sound like fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There is definitly non-linear gameplay in all of the quests, because you are not forced to follow any of the storylines <i>at all</i>. Also some of the quests feature various paths to the same goal. The Devlin quests even allow you a different path for each of the modders who can help you on your quest. This isn't finished yet, but it does make for almost 10 different ways of completing the game when done. Also Short Jack Gold is doing work on the Jack Sparrow storyline so that you can always choose between fighting or thinking your way out of trouble.

It seems the addition of the USA is making loose quite some strong sentiments. Patriotism on the one hand and dislike on the other hand. I think we'll eventually need to get down in the middle to get to something realistic. The Commodore's ideas are certainly worth considering, but we don't want to go overboard with the patriotistic things either. In any case, it seems we've got our work cut out for us. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

 

[Merciless Mark]

If anyone has already downloaded my latest flag revision, you might want to do so again.
I just re-uploaded the same file to include a new flagfrt <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
The changes are, English now have the Union Jack flying from forts, the French, the tricolor and the Spanish have the Cross of Burgundy.

 

[Merciless Mark]

<!--quoteo(post=270971:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:29 AM:name=Cpt. James)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James @ Jul 29 2008, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=270971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin- JPJ+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( JPJ)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that one of the biggest advantages of being an American would be the quality of ships and offcers. While other ships are good, American-built vessels could have that extra edge over other nation's vessels that gives the USA a purpose. Afterall... that was one of the largest concerns of other world powers once America stepped onto the world stage. Our superfrigates were almost unbeatable, especially due to the heart and soul of our crews and officers. Figures such as John Paul Jones and Stephen Decatur were some of the boldest and most daring officers of the age, and when given a well-built ship... that made quite a problem for America's enemies. So, I would make American ship's stats better than other nations and would give American characters higher reputations, more skill points, and more expierence. They need to be some of the best sailors, navigators, and leaders around... (and though Americans were often more accurate gunners, I'd let the British have better gunnery skills because they could reload so quickly.) The downside of high quality is a higher price. The American Treasury certainly felt the difference in their wallet after paying for the six frigates. So I'd make American ships and officers cost the players more money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I protest. The French design better ships in terms of speed and gunnery. And this is quite blatantly a lopsided argument based on your own patriotism. It is made up of generalisations and self-promotion "Some of the best sailors, navigators , and leaders around', indeed!

At any rate, I do feel unhappy that HMS Nelson wouldn't work with the current Tool. I would've liked to help, but there you go. Looks very good, though I do hope that there is non-linear gameplay. At the same time, the quests do sound like fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If i am not mistaken while the Americans "ONCE" their navy formed had frigates that were better armed and more durable, the British still had the best crews. Which of course makes perfect sense when you consider that Brittain is an island nation.
And unlike the other empires, the Americans did not have regular access to ship-of-the-lines either.

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that one of the biggest advantages of being an American would be the quality of ships and officers. While other ships are good, American-built vessels could have that extra edge over other nation's vessels that gives the USA a purpose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wasn't the US busy getting rid of the natives and trying to colonise more land also American ships were english since they wernt independent. the only ships or trade ships were British. They didn't really get there own military until later in time

during the RunMe.bat alot of the files could not be found will this effect gameplay i havnt tryed playing yet <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If the RunMe.bat says a file cannot be found, it probably means that a file it wanted to remove is already not there. Nothing to worry about. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

 

[Commodore John Paul Jones]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I protest. The French design better ships in terms of speed and gunnery. And this is quite blatantly a lopsided argument based on your own patriotism. It is made up of generalisations and self-promotion "Some of the best sailors, navigators , and leaders around', indeed!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The French did have better designs in those regards when compared to the British, but the truth is, that Joshua Humphreys designed the best sailing frigates in the world. The <i>Constitution</i> is proof of this, and the reason the Royal Navy was able to capture the other frigates was because English ships outnumbered American ones 166-1! This is not my own patriotism founding this argument, but factual history. The War of 1812 isn't some legend about the US Navy... it is our history. Our six frigates and some hundred other vessels sure gave England one tough time... and though neither side won from a political or tactical standpoint... the war proved to America that it could hold its own and snuffed out any hopes England had of retaking what had once been their own. Might I also note that the majority of this game, other sailing games, books, movies, etc are heavily influenced by the Royal Navy... so I think that if you will make generalisations and self-promote the might of Nelson's Navy... than the USA, Holland, Spain, Portugal, France, and any other nation with a maritime power has that right. I even recall this: that at the Trafalgar 200 reenactment, the fleets were red and blue and not English and Franco-Spanish. But Anna Tribe (great-great-great granddaughter of Lord Nelson and Lady Hamilton) said this - "I am sure the French and Spaniards are adult enough to appreciate we did win the battle." When will England allow other nations to take pride in their own 17th, 18th, 19th century maritime history without bowing to England as ruler of the seas?
In this Build Mod, England has the most ships and its tradition... will you not allow us to include the United States and allow us to sculpt our advantages and disadvantages with historical accuracy? Though we had no ships over 44 guns until 1814, we did have better frigates, better officers and crews on average, more accurate crews, and higher crew morale. England had more ships, more officer depth (meaning that the chances of finding a brilliant officer were high) and could reload faster. England's crews, though inexpierenced because of impressment, were drilled enough by strict officers to make them deadly enough in battle.
You may be disgusted and I know chances of you doing this are slim, but consider reading "SIX FRIGATES" by Ian W. Toll... everything you need to know about American frigates is there.

<!--QuoteBegin- Pieter Boelen+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( Pieter Boelen)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It seems the addition of the USA is making loose quite some strong sentiments. Patriotism on the one hand and dislike on the other hand. I think we'll eventually need to get down in the middle to get to something realistic. The Commodore's ideas are certainly worth considering, but we don't want to go overboard with the patriotistic things either. In any case, it seems we've got our work cut out for us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Though I take pride in it... it was not patriotism that lead me to suggest what I did. Those are the facts. And if one doesn't want to share with the United States, then I'd suggest that they play the game prior to 1776... because history cannot be changed and we can not omit the United States simply because the majority of the Age of Sail community is made up of Royal Navy buffs.

<!--QuoteBegin-Merciless Mark+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Merciless Mark)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If i am not mistaken while the Americans "ONCE" their navy formed had frigates that were better armed and more durable, the British still had the best crews. Which of course makes perfect sense when you consider that Brittain is an island nation.
And unlike the other empires, the Americans did not have regular access to ship-of-the-lines either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly! I am not trying to out the Royal Navy... and if the Royal Navy threw all of its weight into the fight they could have wiped the USN off the map... but the RN was spread thin protecting the British Empire all over the world...
Though the Royal Navy had more men in service, the quality of American crews were better. Not a single sailor was pressed into American service! Royal Navy sailors even deserted to the United States Navy for petter pay, liberties, and treatment. This was one of the factors that caused the War of 1812 (which is ironic, because the issue was resolved between the two nations when the war started).
The United States Navy did not have ships-of-the-line until 1814... even then we built only a few and hardly used them. Most never saw service beyond serving as a flagship in the Med for a couple of years and all were scrapped or burned by the start of the American Civil War. But, in regular fashion, the American ships-of-the-line were (on average) larger than other nations' capital ships... though I personally believe that that led to these ships being harder to handle... because there is a limit before a ship is so large it just can't sail well.

<!--QuoteBegin-Sparky+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparky)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wasn't the US busy getting rid of the natives and trying to colonise more land also American ships were english since they wernt independent. the only ships or trade ships were British. They didn't really get there own military until later in time<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The United States was busy deporting Native Americans to the West... but that really wasn't in full swing until later in the 1830-1870 period. And American warships during the Revolution were American built for the most part. The few vessels we had were smaller craft such as schooners and sloops that were already built locally. The larger frigates (only 30 gun frigates, mind you... the 44s wern't seen until 1798) were constructed by order of Congress... but only a couple actually made it into Continental Navy service; the rest were burned on the slips, captured, or never laid down. There were also a few ships, such as the <i>Bonhomme Richard</i>, that were bought from the French as ex-merchantmen and converted to warships. The Americans even built a 74 gun third rate, the <i>America</i>, but she was built too late in the war and was given to the French as a thank you gift upon launch. The British later captured the <i>America</i> from the French and commented on her fine construction. By the time the United States Navy was founded in 1794, all vessels were American-built.


All in all, I do not understand why such strong opposition was just voiced against the addition of the USA and the PA! Community's attempts to recreate the USA in the Build Mod with accurate detail. I do apologize in advance if this post seemed to be a long rant, if it seemed arrogant and overly patriotic, but I had do defend this... if not for my own country then for the sake of historical accuracy.

 

[Stallion]

I don't see anything wrong with adding the United States to the Build - if for nothing else, it adds to the content in the game  <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> . And people have the choice of having nothing to do with the U.S. - it's not like one is forced to join their ranks  <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> .

I don't see anything wrong with standing up for your country, either - if you don't do that, you can't really consider yourself (in the Commodore's case) an American, or, say, a Canadian.

 

[Andinout]

I am happy if it stays with historical accuracy



And the English only disadvantage in the 1st Civl war was that it took 3 to 4 weeks for supplies
and the American's had there supplies there already

now i am going to stop my self in this argument i think i startid <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

[Merciless Mark]

Is it possible to add nations that have ships but no ports/cities? Because it would be nice to have Sweden. Mostly they were involved in europe but they did have indiamen and slave ships that sailed via the caribbean on their return home for a period.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Indeed it is VERY possible to add a nation that has ships, but no ports. This is actually easier than having a nation that does have ports.
Since the USA only appear in the last two periods, there's basically an unused nation before that. Right now this nation doesn't even exist, but it could easily be made to become the Swedish or the Danish or whatever additional nation we might want. It could even be a different nation in different periods, just to add some variety.

I agree with Commodore John Paul Jones. If we can add more historical realism, we certainly shouldn't refrain from doing so. Also the majority of the game is either English or pirate-centred and it would be great to also work on putting equal focus on the other nations. Right now, things are pretty lop-sided. Not to mention that other games, movies and books are also mostly English or pirate-centred. The most things I know of the age of sail, I have found out through the Hornblower books and films and the Master and Commander film. Naturally this only shows on side of the story and it would be great to show other sides as well.

In any case, the USA are going into the game and I don't want a toggle on it. They existed in real life and now they'll exist in the game as well. And the Commodore's knowledge of history will be a great help in actually making the USA unique and giving them an actual purpose in the game. Actually, I also think right now there isn't enough differences between the various nations. It doesn't <i>really</i> matter if you serve Holland or France, apart from a personal preference. It would be great to add clear distinctions between the various nations, other than just certain nations' ships being quicker and others being stronger, etc.

 

[potnky]

<!--quoteo(post=271069:date=Jul 29 2008, 10:46 AM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I protest. The French design better ships in terms of speed and gunnery. And this is quite blatantly a lopsided argument based on your own patriotism. It is made up of generalisations and self-promotion "Some of the best sailors, navigators , and leaders around', indeed!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The French did have better designs in those regards when compared to the British, but the truth is, that Joshua Humphreys designed the best sailing frigates in the world. The <i>Constitution</i> is proof of this, and the reason the Royal Navy was able to capture the other frigates was because English ships outnumbered American ones 166-1! This is not my own patriotism founding this argument, but factual history. The War of 1812 isn't some legend about the US Navy... it is our history. Our six frigates and some hundred other vessels sure gave England one tough time... and though neither side won from a political or tactical standpoint... the war proved to America that it could hold its own and snuffed out any hopes England had of retaking what had once been their own. Might I also note that the majority of this game, other sailing games, books, movies, etc are heavily influenced by the Royal Navy... so I think that if you will make generalisations and self-promote the might of Nelson's Navy... than the USA, Holland, Spain, Portugal, France, and any other nation with a maritime power has that right. I even recall this: that at the Trafalgar 200 reenactment, the fleets were red and blue and not English and Franco-Spanish. But Anna Tribe (great-great-great granddaughter of Lord Nelson and Lady Hamilton) said this - "I am sure the French and Spaniards are adult enough to appreciate we did win the battle." When will England allow other nations to take pride in their own 17th, 18th, 19th century maritime history without bowing to England as ruler of the seas?
In this Build Mod, England has the most ships and its tradition... will you not allow us to include the United States and allow us to sculpt our advantages and disadvantages with historical accuracy? Though we had no ships over 44 guns until 1814, we did have better frigates, better officers and crews on average, more accurate crews, and higher crew morale. England had more ships, more officer depth (meaning that the chances of finding a brilliant officer were high) and could reload faster. England's crews, though inexpierenced because of impressment, were drilled enough by strict officers to make them deadly enough in battle.
You may be disgusted and I know chances of you doing this are slim, but consider reading "SIX FRIGATES" by Ian W. Toll... everything you need to know about American frigates is there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No, I have read Six Frigates. Well, the first few chapters at least, before I grew sick of the yank drivel. Although the bit about the Americans stealing British blood was quite amusing. And it amazes me that you have the capacity to measure the quality and morale of Americans because a book which quite clearly is in your bias says they were. Also note it's better to say 'Britain', for by saying England you are directing your words to the English, not the British, who may be Scottish, Welsh and Irish. And I do not prevent other nations from taking pride in their maritime history. It's when you try and make your nation the 'best' one because in your opinion they are the better quality of men that I grow annoyed. And on the contrary, I believe most media types on this subject do not promote the RN, but pirates. Hence Pirates of the Caribbean/Burning Sea/Age of Pirates/ etc.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Quite an interesting discussion here; I do hope we won't be getting any animosity though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
I do think this here illustrates something that's going on in this world (warning: getting philosophical/political).

It seems there is developing a certain USA vs the rest of the world sensibility.
And I admit to not being immune to that; I'm not entirely fond of America either.
This is mostly based on the war in Iraq, which I am not happy about and the current president, who I'm not happy about either.
Also the fact that I noticed that the cars in the USA are 1,5 times the size of those in Europe seems to be saying something.

However, we must all understand we're all in this together. Right here we all want the best for our modpack. And out there, we all want the best for the world.
And to achieve that, we must try to understand and respect each other. Which is really hard, but has to be done anyway.

End of speech (preach). <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

Now <i>there</i> was some unexpected off-topicness from me right before I leave! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

 

[Fairweather]

To return to the topic, before more broadsides are exchanged, is anyone else still getting ctd's going to and from the world map (is that what its called?)?. Not, all the time, but quite frequently.

Btw, is there an American 44 in the game? I thought I heard about one being built.

 

[Commodore John Paul Jones]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right now this nation doesn't even exist, but it could easily be made to become the Swedish or the Danish or whatever additional nation we might want. It could even be a different nation in different periods, just to add some variety.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if we used this slot in the first couple of time periods to simulate the natives that the first explorers found? We could rig it so they had no ship types avaliable to them in these periods so we don't see a Caribbean-Native sailing a Dutch first rate around! Once we reach a certain point, they would "die of various European sicknesses" and fade away, becoming the natives we might run into in the jungles later on.
The only downside to this would be modeling native towns and using their architecture. We'd have to build primitive towns to sit in certain places, only to be replaced by European settlements.

<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It would be great to add clear distinctions between the various nations, other than just certain nations' ships being quicker and others being stronger, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed! I think that this could tie in with our line of mods that organize ship types and characters by nation and time period... we need to give little advantages and disadvantages to each nation that come into play during the game. I know that weapons bought in Spanish stores would come in high quality for a shiny penny! Perhaps profits are higher when serving as a Dutch merchant and while French maritime forces are weaker... French forts and towns are stronger than normal (This would occur in the 1805-1815 period... Ol Boney wasn't the best sailor around).

<!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have read Six Frigates. Well, the first few chapters at least, before I grew sick of the yank drivel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Drivel?! I found the whole novel as exciting and vivid as any Hornblower or Aubrey book!
<!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And it amazes me that you have the capacity to measure the quality and morale of Americans because a book which quite clearly is in your bias says they were.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that is your opinion, then I think its fair to say that all the books I've read on RN history are biased... you believe that you truly are the best bloody navy in the world? That not a single nation exceeds you? Then why do I speak to you as an American and not a British subject? Why is the <i>Consitution</i> moored in Boston as a national icon and not scrapped by the hands of her British captors?
<!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And I do not prevent other nations from taking pride in their maritime history. It's when you try and make your nation the 'best' one because in your opinion they are the better quality of men that I grow annoyed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do not prevent us from taking pride in our respective histories... but you sure make a point of opposing it and disrespecting our rights to take pride in it. And each nation is better in one way or another... Britain turned to press gangs and therefore often found ships crewed by surly landlubbers. America made a point of avoiding this and therefore crewed its few ships with volunteers. It is natural, regardless of nation or service, that a volunteer made a personal decision and commitment, sacrificed for his country, and therefore has more determination and higher morale. A volunteer's want to serve often leads to finer skills and tougher resolve, regardless of avaliable training and equipment. The Continental Army and Navy are examples of this... as were the victors of the English Civil War and the French Revolution.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cpt. James+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cpt. James)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On the contrary, I believe most media types on this subject do not promote the RN, but pirates. Hence Pirates of the Caribbean/Burning Sea/Age of Pirates/ etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted, there is more pirate content in regards to Age of Sail media... but if one was to look at what two kinds are out there... there is Pirate-themed material and Royal Navy-themed material. Those are the two major types... even within the Pirate-themed media, did Pirates of the Caribbean decide to send Jack Sparrow against the Spanish Navy? No, they put him against the Royal Navy.
I have yet to see an internationally famous Age of Sail saga of novels like Hornblower or Aubrey that focuses on an American or Spaniard. I have yet to see a Hollywood blockbuster or TV miniseries starring an American naval officer.


This is the truth. It is truth because it is fact. It is fact because it is history.

 

[Stallion]

<!--quoteo(post=271079:date=Jul 29 2008, 04:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 29 2008, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quite an interesting discussion here; I do hope we won't be getting any animosity though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
I do think this here illustrates something that's going on in this world (warning: getting philosophical/political).

It seems there is developing a certain USA vs the rest of the world sensibility.
And I admit to not being immune to that; I'm not entirely fond of America either.
This is mostly based on the war in Iraq, which I am not happy about and the current president, who I'm not happy about either.
Also the fact that I noticed that the cars in the USA are 1,5 times the size of those in Europe seems to be saying something.

However, we must all understand we're all in this together. Right here we all want the best for our modpack. And out there, we all want the best for the world.
And to achieve that, we must try to understand and respect each other. Which is really hard, but has to be done anyway.

End of speech (preach). <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

Now <i>there</i> was some unexpected off-topicness from me right before I leave! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good speech <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> . Our politicians are busy sucking up to the Bush Administration, so that only adds to that overall feeling - it's really sad that such a small group of people can have so many dickheads in it (meaning all the world's politicians).

Have you ever considered joining the UN? You'd be far better than most of the idiots currently inhabiting it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> .

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=271080:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:31 PM:name=Fairweather)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fairweather @ Jul 29 2008, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To return to the topic, before more broadsides are exchanged, is anyone else still getting ctd's going to and from the world map (is that what its called?)?. Not, all the time, but quite frequently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do you have any more information on that? Could it be that full cargo hold problem again? I don't think that's fixed yet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=271080:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:31 PM:name=Fairweather)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fairweather @ Jul 29 2008, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Btw, is there an American 44 in the game? I thought I heard about one being built.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Right now there's three USA-only ships in the game, a Colonial Brig, Colonial Schooner and Heavy Frigate.

<!--quoteo(post=271082:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if we used this slot in the first couple of time periods to simulate the natives that the first explorers found? We could rig it so they had no ship types avaliable to them in these periods so we don't see a Caribbean-Native sailing a Dutch first rate around! Once we reach a certain point, they would "die of various European sicknesses" and fade away, becoming the natives we might run into in the jungles later on.
The only downside to this would be modeling native towns and using their architecture. We'd have to build primitive towns to sit in certain places, only to be replaced by European settlements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thomas already added a native village on Aruba. Be sure to have a look at it. There's no need for using the "empty nation slot" for the natives, because it's easier to add them without a real nation, because a real nation automatically gets ships on the worldmap, which the natives probably shouldn't have.
In any case, it'd be good to have natives feature more prominently into the game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=271082:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Indeed! I think that this could tie in with our line of mods that organize ship types and characters by nation and time period... we need to give little advantages and disadvantages to each nation that come into play during the game. I know that weapons bought in Spanish stores would come in high quality for a shiny penny! Perhaps profits are higher when serving as a Dutch merchant and while French maritime forces are weaker... French forts and towns are stronger than normal (This would occur in the 1805-1815 period... Ol Boney wasn't the best sailor around).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->We should have these ideas posted somewhere they don't get lost. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=271082:date=Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jul 29 2008, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Granted, there is more pirate content in regards to Age of Sail media... but if one was to look at what two kinds are out there... there is Pirate-themed material and Royal Navy-themed material. Those are the two major types... even within the Pirate-themed media, did Pirates of the Caribbean decide to send Jack Sparrow against the Spanish Navy? No, they put him against the Royal Navy.
I have yet to see an internationally famous Age of Sail saga of novels like Hornblower or Aubrey that focuses on an American or Spaniard. I have yet to see a Hollywood blockbuster or TV miniseries starring an American naval officer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Very true; I was saying the same. So it'd be great to showcase some other sides as well in out game. We already have the Portuguese Bartolomeu o Portugues main quest. Now on to the rest! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

As far as the discussion is concerned, I could say a lot more, but I think I said the most important things in my previous post, so I will let it be.
I hope you will be able to sort this out; I would hate for a moderator to have to invervene. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=271084:date=Jul 30 2008, 12:16 AM:name=Stallion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stallion @ Jul 30 2008, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=271084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good speech <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> . Our politicians are busy sucking up to the Bush Administration, so that only adds to that overall feeling - it's really sad that such a small group of people can have so many dickheads in it (meaning all the world's politicians).

Have you ever considered joining the UN? You'd be far better than most of the idiots currently inhabiting it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Same thing here. Seems there's only a certain type of people that make it into politics and it's not the righteous and honest ones.
I would almost go into politics myself, not because I'd like to do it, but simply to set right a LOT of things that are wrong.
However, I don't think there'd be much point in me doing so. People most likely wouldn't listen.
Perhaps they'll listen if I was to be a sea captain who then moves into politics.
And if not, at least as an officer aboard a ship I can try to improve matters on a smaller scale and hopefully things will then leak out further into the world.
Perhaps I might even be able to influence some of our rich guests. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
Oh well, I'm dreaming... Which is good, because I have to go to bed. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

 

[Commodore John Paul Jones]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right now there's three USA-only ships in the game, a Colonial Brig, Colonial Schooner and Heavy Frigate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought there was an American Brig, Sloop-of-War, two schooners, a corvette, and a heavy frigate...
Col_SloopofWar
SchoonerAm1_18
SchoonerAm1_47
Those are the ones I see in my Models>Ships folder. If the others are in there, which ones are the brig, corvette, and frigate? Because I don't see any names that hint them being American. (That could be a little project in the future, to rename things so you can go to the files and see RN_38_frigate or USN_44_frigate or French_74_third_rate. We could even go as far as to rename something to Dutch_32_merchant or Civilian_12_ketch.)