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Creating a Davvy Jones Model (WIP)

Heretik

Heretik

Privateer
Storm Modder
Okay,

So I decided that I was going to make a davvy jones model, and I did some sketches to start figuring out how I'm going to simplify it etc., and I have run into a few problems, which are illustrated below.

1)First off - Davvy Jones has an absolutely obscene amount of tentacles that are waaay too long to be practical, and keep a low poly count (I'm assuming that this is a priority? - I figure I can always make it more complicated...). Anybody remember those sims skins with the people with the Gigantic static hair that would plunge in and out of their back? I'm going to try to avoid this by making them shorter, and fewer

2) Davvy jones has this crazy modified frock jacket so that his claw arm doesn't have to go through the sleeve. I'm not 100% sure how to approach this... I mostly figure that I will have the frock jacket bottom be the same on both sides, but on the upper torso, I will have it run off the shoulder into the belt area before it becomes the arm.

3)Errr... this is really the biggest problem... How the heck is this guy going to hold a pistol? A sword? I'm not sure which hand is supposed to be which, but having this giant claw thing holding a pistol would be pretty cumbersome and ackward, not to mention that his hand is absolutely massive. I will shrink his hand - it will still look huge on the swords in game though... so...I'll leave this to you guys - do you want a more accurate large hand? or a smaller hand that will actually fit the swords/ guns. Any solutions for the claw/hand problem - PLEAAASE toss them my way.

And now for some fun - if I fail horribly - at least you get some fan art... go fanboy go fanboy go!


<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Pirates%20Ahoy%20Miscellanious/DavvyJones4.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Pirates%20Ahoy%20Miscellanious/DavvyJones3.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Pirates%20Ahoy%20Miscellanious/DavvyJones2.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Pirates%20Ahoy%20Miscellanious/DavvyJones.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Cheers folks, and any kind of help of any kinds is appreciated - I've litterally only modelled two things before so this is going to be a crazy undertaking, and learning process at the same time. Awesome - sounds like fun. As I said before in another topic - if the body doesn't work out - Ican probably just attach the head to another model, and then that way at least it will work with the skeleton made for the game.

oh yeah -and I can't find any head on, or side views for the creation of this model - so I think I'm going to have to draw them... this could be... interesting... if anybody finds anything like that haphazardly - toss 'em my way - thanks guys!
 
Okay - I've now completed the breakdown of the model. It's all planned out now, so nothing *should be left to luck anymore. Here's rum in your eye!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Skin%20Previews/DavvyJonesheadbreakdown.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
 
it certainly is! point 1: why not attach the tentacles to the body instead of the head? that could greatly simplyfy things. one problem is see with this thoguh is when he turns his head. maybe there should also be some tentacles attached to his head that come out of his body when he turns his head, but are hidden behind, or to be more precise: in, the other tentacles so it looks right when he moves his head? easy for me to say of course, but that's the solution i see.

a much easier solution would of course be: making the tentacle beard really thick, so you dont see it dissapear inside the body, or at least much less.

point 3: i think davy could hold a pistol with his claw. it doesn't really matter that he can't, in reality, actually fire it, because the simple fact that he CAN is a good enough excuse. the problem is though, that the pistol would probaly dissapear completely inside it. i've just com eup with a rather unusual solution:

he doesn't use his claw for the pistol! he uses it for the sword! davey's left hand is the claw-arm. in the animation, he uses his reasonably normal RIGHT arm for firing, as he grabs from right to left to get his pistol. the sword is always carried on the left, so he uses his right arm, the claw, to get his sword. think of it: what would be easier: getting your sword/pistol with the hand that's above it, having to point your elbow back in a slightly akward position, or reaching across your chest?

oh: in the movie, davey's semi-normal hand consist of three tentacle-like fingers with the middle one being the longest. (VERY long)
 
Brilliant Idea Morgan! I think that what I will do is keep shorter tentacles on top, and then model some tentacles out of his neck, and keep them flowing into the body. They will be very static- BUT at least it will keep the character looking more like Davvy Jones. I'm not sold on a gigantic block of tentacles though - it will just look very stiff, and odd.

As for the claw - good idea once again - I'm still not sure how I can have him grab the sword - but then again, I'm not sure what options I have for it. When I get there I'll have to try to figure out animation, and see what there already is going on, and what I can do with it.

the tentacle hand is a huge problem. I have no idea how to implement this until I figure out a)how to animate in maya, and b) how to make those carry over... Having this gigantic tentacle finger sticking out of his hand at all times will make him look more like some strange form of gorilla. I could try to have it constantly frozen in a fist, so when he takes out his gun it's ready? I'm not sure - I'll have to watch the movie again, and see how they deal with it there. But thank you just the same Thomas, and Morgan for pointing this out... once again - any suggestions would be great!

-now for an update of sorts. After spending 7 hours last night scratching my head, and trying different ways to try and model his head, and get the flow right, I found out that the first way that I was doing it was right in the first place. So I stopped last night, and went to bed. have to do homework today, but I will keep going later on. I litterally woke up this morning thinking about it - So much fun! err... afternoon... woke up in the afternoon.... early... afternoon.
 
heh...impressive! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> you're not unique though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> anyway, you could let the long finger wrap around his arm after it has done it's job as a normal finger would, in other words, place it in the position you need and let the rest of it wrap around the arm.
 
Wow...

<b>Heretik</b>, have you seen <a href="http://www.ilm.com/theshow/" target="_blank">this page</a>? It has nice Davy Jones turnaround <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Nice sketches! That is actually the exact same way I prepared myself for modeling the ships I did for Virtual Sailor. First I'd study the ships (photo's, plans, etc.), then drawn the ship myself to see how I could simplify it. That is a really good way of doing things. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

About the tentacles: I'd suggest making most or all tentacles textures. Perhaps make a bit of a beard-shape on the model, but add the detail through textures. I do think his "moustache tentacles" should be modeled though.

I would suggest making a model that works and looks fine in PotC and resembles Davy Jones. Making the exact film version would probably require too much work, too much detail and not look right in the game after all.

To Morgan: Using the other hand for firing would require a new animation and you know what I said about that: Nobody ever managed to do that.
 
Alright - well I've kept working on it for a bit longer, and this is what it looks like so far.

Kazeite - oh my god - that is the most perfect thing ever. I'll see what I can do to correct what I've done so far according to that 360 thing. I hope that this is still low poly enough... I'm still new to all of this, but I guess I'll just get better the more I do.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Skin%20Previews/DavvyJonesPreview1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Tentacles and neck come next <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />


OH! Sorry - I missed Pietr's feedback. Yeah - that is what I sorta plan to do. I am going to have the moustache (but shortened), and then I'll have two tentacles somewhat merged into one on either side, maybe 3 or 4 down the back in block form.

In response to the animation... would anybody hate me if I pulled a Zelda and just switched which arm had the claw? I like the idea about the tentacle wrapping around the arm except for the bit that would hold a gun - I'll post a drawing to get the seal of approval later as I get closer to that point.
 
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Skin%20Previews/DavvyJonesPreview2.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Okay so that's pretty much the head. I personally think he looks silly without the hat, but I guess I figured that somebody may want to have the option eventually of him not having a hat. Thomas, I was really, really curious about how you do that whole sewing of the head thing... I honestly can't see myself painting this twice... once for the hat, and once without...

I was also curious what anybody with any modelling experience would think about attaching the hat/attaching the body...

for the hat: Should I model it separately, and then attach? Or should I just cut a bunch of the faces out of the head, and then build it out of that (that is what I was thinking about doing...)

For the body: Oh my god - I have a lot of vertical lines there!!!! how am I ever going to attach a body to that? Should I just end them and risk having triangles, or 5 sided polys? Should I find a model that is already created, and try to use that to create the body, or should I build it from scratch? I've officially gotten to the point of stuff that I know, so it's all experimentation and praying for luck from this point on.

It also occurred to me that despite all of the incredible comments, and feedback I have been given, I don't think I've actually thanked anyone... THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!
 
Harharharhar - it looks so much more awesome with the hat. Now to figure out how the heck to transfer this durn thing.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Skin%20Previews/DavvyJonesPreview3.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
 
For a new model you can attach. But I have managed to put a AOP model of armour, that was first attached to another, as a lose model, on another model, and that worked. I tried to do this with AOP armour to POTC person, but that failed, so basicially I found out, that you can bind tiny things to models, so if I have those hats, I can try to put it at a POTC character.
 
pieter, it already works like the way i said. right arm grabs sword that hangs on the left side, and the left arm grabs the pistol that hangs on the right side. as long as the right arm is the claw, which it is in the movie, there's no problem.

i must say that the head looks great! although indeed a little bit low-poly, it looks excellent!
 
Thanks Morgan!

The great thing is that if it's too low poly, you can always make it higher - I wanted to make it in as few polys as I could. I might raise it once I build the body and attach it depending on how it looks. It would suck if nobody could use it because I used too many. Now I have to get off my lazy bum and grab those hats for Thomas... But right now I really want to actually try the new build! I'll see what I can do later on today.
 
hehehe... i can't wait to see the reaction of the guys on the other forum. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

anyway, what are you planning on doing first in the game? i'd suggest picking the bermuda sloop and using directsail to get to another island. but you can only do that in build 14 of course. one tip when you're going to try though: as you don't have a compass yet, this could be difficult. to determine your direction, look at the sun or moon. the sun is always in the east, and the moon is always in the west. also: value your officers! they can be incredibly usefull, and are vital to survive early on in the game. well, not vital, but they can really make it a lot easier.
 
To be completely honest with you Cap'n Mrgan - that IS the feature that got me back on POTC. I've wanted to do REAL sailing in the game from the moment I started playing it - and the implementation of the sun, and moon etc. makes this the most awesome thing that has every graced my computer. I've now got everything running up until build 13 update 3, and I'm installing build 14 alpha 6 as we speak. I have noooo idea what I'm going to do first, but whatever it is it's going to be awesome - even if it means being lost at sea because of my ineptitude.
 
yes, that can happen too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> i once missed the entire bloody island and ended up two islands further than i intended. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
wow. that is all I have to say. wow.

I haven't played this since like build 12 or something and you guys have added soooo much. New Ships - beautiful water - much nicer weather effects, gunpowder, choosing your character's clothes from the start menu... wow... and that's just in the first like 10 minutes of gameplay so far. oh - and the ship's deck. *drool you can walk right into thecabin and it wow... serioiusly - cheers guys. I have new motivation to keep working on this model.... But first I should figure out how to get Thomas his hats, and before that I'm going to do some homework. oh and sorry I've been like living on the forums the past couple of days.
 
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In response to the animation... would anybody hate me if I pulled a Zelda and just switched which arm had the claw? I like the idea about the tentacle wrapping around the arm except for the bit that would hold a gun - I'll post a drawing to get the seal of approval later as I get closer to that point.
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I don't mind at all, that's for sure. Sounds like a good idea, actually. I doubt it'll bother anyone. It might not be true to movie-Davy, but that doesn't matter as long as game-Davy looks and works good.

Your modeling looks excellent! The low-poly look doesn't matter. Adding smoothing groups on them will make it look much better. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Thank you very much Pieter, that means a lot coming from you. In the spirit of changes however, I have more changes to propose in Davvy Jone's body. I'm sure that it is possible to make it like it was made in the movie, but I am an inexperienced modeller, and I have absolutely no idea how I could approach it realistically. That change is to make the frock jacket an actual frock jacket instead of it being half frock jacket, half cape. I just don't know how I would go about making the claw arm and not have the texture on top stretch like crazy, and just look really weird. Especially if the arm is raised forwards to fire a gun - that would mean that you have a trail of polygons coming after it going through the body from the back.

I have mapped out how I want the tentacles to be blocked out - I'll just leave an edge over where they go so that I can raise it so that it has some texture (kinda like if you were modelling the top of a hand). As suggested by Morgan, I've got the tentacle wrapped around the arm so that it forms a fist. I don't know what I'll do with the skeleton (which has a joint for every joint in the hand it seems) I'll have to model the texture really tightly there so that it looks okay if the hand is spread or something. I think no matter what we are going to have some really strange texture problems going on, but I don't think it will be a huge deal. That is to say unless I can just not attach certain joints, and leave the hand/fingers completely separate from the model? I don't know enough about rigging yet, but I've been reading tutorials like crazy.

I think that is all i had to say, I still have to do a front, and side drawing before tackling it in 3D, and I'm also going to hunt for tutorials for making bodies (you never know.. I just might pick something up to save me hours of frustration). Take a look at the drawing - any likes? dislikes? things I should change? suggestions on making the cape/frock jacket thing?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/new_age_heretik/Skin%20Previews/DavvyJonesPreview4.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

thanks again everyone - you've been super helpful.

PS oh! and as an extra note - I can export to VRML, and as long as I triangulate the model, I can import it into tool without a hitch. There is one little strange plane thing that shows up - but I'm guessing that it is just because I haven't made any kind of UV map yet.
<b>
Thomas </b>- you're hats are coming - it turns out that right now I have the tools to export, and bring something into the game, but Maya doesn't like to read VRML files, and while the other tools I have can export to VRML, nothing seems to import VRML and export .obj .mb . However, I'm in the middle of downloading like 5 different tools that *hopefully will allow me to make the conversion for you. I wonder if any other modelling programs like 3D max can open VRML files... I might toss it to one of my buddies who uses lightwave to see if he can do it. Happy Pillaging!
 
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