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Mod Release Double Running Speed (now realistic 6.6 m/s)

Discussion in 'Build Beta and Brainstorming' started by Tingyun, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    Optional add-on, that will make your character run twice as fast as original game. Looking for testing and feedback, in order to add some version of faster running speeds as an optional toggle to the mod.

    Installation: just extract into your game folder.

    Summary: Before, characters walked at 1.6 m/s, and ran at 3.2 m/s. Meaning a sprint is twice their walking speed.

    Walking speed is realistic, if a bit slow, but running speed is completely unrealistic: an athletic human male can (even in boots and on rough surfaces) sprint at twice that speed. The world record for sprinting is above 12 m/s, so moving the player up to 6.6 m/s, or four times their walking speed, and about half of a real sprinter, will be an improvement in realism.

    Much more importantly, it will be much more fun and good gameplay if you are used to the faster running speeds in other games. POTC is about the slowest I have seen the player character run in a game, this download will bring him up to be similar to games like Morrowind, Skyrim, Witcher 3, etc.

    And it will save you time around town. :)

    Of course, this won't be implemented without a toggle, for those who like the original slow running speeds. So no need to worry if you like the present system.

    For those who want to try it out, download attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    @imado552 @Eskhol @Cerdock @Darby McGraw @*Swordar* @Skyworm

    Most of the experiment is now included in the latest Levis patch here, as long as you download the Extra Installation zip: Mod Release - Build 14 Beta 4.1 WIP [Last Update: 23 sept] | PiratesAhoy!

    This part, the double running speed, is an optional seperate download here for now, while it is being tested for possible (with a toggle) inclusion in the mod.

    So download the Levis patch there, then this, if you want the running speeds increased. :)
     
    Darby McGraw likes this.
  3. Redbeard

    Redbeard Sailor

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    Now, the sequels Sea Dogs TEHO and AoP2:CoAS both have SLOWER walking/sprinting speeds.

    This is evened out by the time acceleration feature. I personally don't mind the walking speed.... because I fast travel everywhere... *cough*

    ...but does this effect combat and such? I.e. I can just sprint away from everything? Or are enemies effected too?
     
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  4. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    Enemies too! Everyone runs at the new realistic speeds.

    I find combat looks much better and is much more exciting and dynamic as a consequence. ;)

    It works especially well with @Levis 's improved AI system (which you can toggle on in the globals) as enemies can withdraw better.

    Note: walking speed is unaffected, only running.
     
  5. Redbeard

    Redbeard Sailor

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    I figured it would intensify things, as I generally do combat at sea at around Rx3/5 so my naval combat is fairly quick and intense. I may give it a try after finishing my Nat Hawk campaign. Will it affect walking around my ship etc? For instance, when I press Tab while sailing, and run around with my spyglass? Or is that a different set of code from the standard 3rd person one?
     
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  6. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    I think it would affect your speed when you are personally running around the deck, and shouldn't affect spyglass use at all.

    Would love to get your feedback if you do try it. :)
     
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  7. Joer

    Joer Powder Monkey

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    Very interesting. Have you tried speeding up the walking speed as well? Personally, I like to walk everywhere for RP purposes but sometimes it just feels so damned slow.
     
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  8. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    Joer: technically the current walking speeds are correct, 1.6 m/s is about what humans choose to stroll around at. So I wouldn't want to change that for the main download, as it is used by the townspeople and such.

    But I can help make you a personal mod for your preferences. What are you looking for? All characters including townspeople walk faster, or mostly just the player? How much faster would you like?

    Leaving for a bit, but if you let me know your preferences, I'll post a file for you when I get back later today.

    One note: if I make the player walk faster, townpeople will as well, unless you are using a specific nonstandard model. Let me know what model you use. And be sure to choose a speed.
     
  9. Grey Roger

    Grey Roger Sea Dog Staff Member Storm Modder

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    I'm still not convinced that 6.6m/s, which equates to a four minute mile, is realistic. In reality this was first achieved by Roger Bannister on a racetrack in 1954. We can reasonably assume that nobody was running at that sort of speed a couple of centuries before then, especially with full equipment and on rough jungle paths or the unpaved, uneven "streets" of places like Speightstown. 3.6m/s is probably more realistic for a non-athlete on lower quality surfaces in age of sail periods.
     
  10. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    Grey Roger: I would agree it should be slower if we were talking about long-distance speeds, but I think we are better off looking at something closer to sprinting for this.

    6.6 m/s is the realistic "I am in combat and need to sprint" speed, and is about 1/2 the speed that the top athletes can achieve in a track sprint (which is reasonable of course, for all the reasons you point out regarding uneven surfaces and modern advancements).

    Default 3.3m/s is a 26 mile marathon speed, and a somewhat slow one (reasonable again for the same conditions). A one-mile speed would be somewhere in between. Instead of a toggle we could have a setting, where the player can choose the multiple: 1.0, 1.5, or 2.0. Whatever the realism determination, gameplay feel is probably going to be different for different players, and some might find 6.6 too fast but 3.3 too slow, and it would be easy to help them out as well.

    Running everywhere while shopping in town or trekking through the jungle is flat unrealistic no matter the speed, as Joer suggests. If players do that they are choosing gameplay over realism, which is reasonable and their choice.

    But combat sprinting speed is the part that really has a claim to realism, and that gets balanced correctly at 6.6 m/s sprinting rather than current marathon speeds. But the more important issue is gameplay.

    Currently, any new player will be quite turned off by the slow speeds, as they are about 1/2 the speed players run at in other games. No reason to force that on the player.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  11. Joer

    Joer Powder Monkey

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    It would have worked better if the game had a fatigue system.

    As for the question of custom walking speeds, sure let's give it a try. I use a custom model for my characters, it's model.id is KeeneCX_18
     
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  12. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    It would, though the player being able to recover from a life-threatening injury in 5 minutes from a bandage is a lot more of a nod to gameplay over realism than his running endurance. :p

    NOTICE: this is a personal mod for Joer. Not intended for general use, download only if you have his exact preferences

    @Joer Here you are.

    There are two files, pick one and place it in your RESOURCE/animation folder

    The Keene specific one is if you can figure out (or get someone to help you) point that model at its own animation file. I can't figure out how to do that, but its there if you want to try to make your walk speed unique.

    The other "man" file will work right now without further modification, but will make all generic male characters that lack their own model defined animations walk at 1.5x the normal rate, so 2.4 m/s instead of 1.6 m/s.

    I tested 3.0 walk speed in-game and going higher on speed makes the animation look unrealistic. It looks great for running, because in running your feet are SUPPOSED to glide (noone sprints with both feet in contact with the ground), but for walking it would look funny. You wouldn't notice it on your own character, because of the view, but you would for the townspeople.

    2.4 seems to be a good speed increase while still looking good.. Still, if you want to edit it faster you are welcome to. In that file, look for this section:

    ;Ходьба вперёд
    [walk]
    start_time = 2
    end_time = 18

    data = "Blend time", "0.4" ; sec
    data = "Walk speed", "2.4" ; m/sec
    data = "Turn speed", "5.5" ; rad/sec

    Change that 2.4 to whatever you like.

    I didn't change the rest of the models, seems like it wouldn't matter since noone walks in combat. If you want to make everyone in the world walk fast, not just people that use that file, then you can repeat the same change for every file in the mod archive above, just change the original 1.6 settings to 2.4 or whatever you choose.

    Let me know if I can be of further assistance! :)
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    NOTICE: personal file for Joer, only use if you have his exact preferences and use his exact model

    @Joer Figured out how to give your model a special speed only for itself.

    Install the attached archive, then install only the KeeneCX_18 file from the other archive (so you need both, just don't install the "man" file from the other, or if you have already done so, reinstall the original archive from the first post which will overwrite it).

    Then you and only you will have the fast walk speed. You could even make it faster if you like, since it is harder to notice the oddness in the walking animation when it is only your character doing it.

    Let me know if you have any problems. :)

    (Note, this requires the latest patch version, Extra Installation, from the 4.1 WIP thread, updated a couple of days ago. If you don't want to install that, you can search for the Keene model in the attached file and cut and paste into your current version)

    The other downloads are compatible with all versions, only this one might not be, because the model file changed and incorperated a new model in the recent update.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    NOTICE: NOT intended for inclusion anywhere, just for those who like this sort of thing

    For anyone who shares Joer's love of walking over running around town, but doesn't use his particular model, here is a little minimod.

    It turns all the Nathaniel Hawk models into powerwalkers, going 3.0m/s. Bascially you're a powerwalker, but you'll feel very dignified walking instead of running, and the rest of the world will keep to realistic speeds.

    (this puts you at almost the default running speed from your walk, you can make it faster if you like, but I wanted to keep it within the neighborhood of reason)

    If you don't have the recent patch, or if you like a different model than the Nathaniel Hawk one, you can look at how I changed them by adding the animation file line, and just add that to whatever model you do prefer. Just add this line
    model.ani = "mainman";

    And still install the resource folder from there.

    (the running speed main download at the first post does NOT require the recent patch, this only does because of the addition of a new model, so you can merge it in anyway)
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Jack Rackham

    Jack Rackham HoO Team Member Quest Writer Storm Modder

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    About the running speed:

    I made a special item a long time ago for Bartolomeu's quests. A pair of moccasins which when equipped
    got you a higher running speed. That will be more or less meaningless if everybody is running fast.

    Have not really felt that everbody is running to slow. When gametesting I set timespeed up.
     
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  16. Skyworm

    Skyworm Privateer Storm Modder

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    Cheers gentlemen,

    personally, I'm fine with the actual walking and running speed. But just some thoughts:

    Are we sure that the running is meant as a sprint? I doubt it, because in most games like this, this "running" is used as the major way of moving. My characters don't walk, they run all the time. Then, it would'nt be a sprint, but more like a slow jogging. And to that, the speed would fit.
     
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  17. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Considering that walking is so slow, I always run everywhere. Usually with time compression.
    This makes walking basically useless. Is there abutting anything that walking COULD be good for?

    My main concern here is if the speed doesn't match the animation, the player character will appear to slide over the ground.
    I wouldn't want that to be the case. :no

    Note also @Jack Rackham's note about his "higher running speed" item.
    That is intended to be important for quest purposes some time.
    Would be good if that intention can be maintained.
     
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  18. Joer

    Joer Powder Monkey

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    The custom 2.4x walking speed you made for me works just perfect. Walking no longer feels tediously slow, I love it!
     
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  19. Tingyun

    Tingyun Corsair Storm Modder

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    @Jack Rackham couldn't we just increase the speed the mocassins go at? Shouldn't be hard to edit.

    @Skyworm the current running speed could indeed make sense, depends on how you coneptualize it:

    Current running speed is a marathon (26 mile) running pace. A bit unrealistic (as Joer notes) to run around town at all, but if you were doing so, it is the right speed. Very unrealistic in combat, when someone is potentially shooting at you or you need to run away.

    Speed of this mod 2x is a sprinting speed. Realistic for combat. More unrealistic if running around town, but that was already unrealistic anyway, and seems a nod to player gameplay choice over realism.

    Some intermediate speed (1.5x or therabout) would be more of a mile+ pace. Not really realistic in either combat or running around town, but a little more fitting for each.

    @Pieter Boelen Happy to report it looks fine from my observations. The thing is, in running your feet are supposed to glide, if they instead always had one foot in contact with the floor without gliding at all, that is technically the exact definition of walking. ;) So the gliding part is actually correct, and the animation looks fine on npcs and players.

    Not sure about making walking useful--probably needs to be left to roleplayers like Joer who choose to walk around town. Any of us running everywhere have already picked gameplay over realism, whether jogging or sprinting. ;)


    Anyway, I don't expect this to be something everyone will prefer, and especially it is not targeted at long-time players of POTC, who are used to the current running speeds. It is probably more targeted at players of other games, where running speeds are much faster.

    When I first discovered POTC, I found the running speeds almost unbearably slow, having been used to elder scrolls, witcher 3, etc. It was a pain going anywhere, and I hated the look of time compression where I would enter an unrealistic looking world where everyone in town walks fast, and where a jungle bandit could jump me at any second.

    It really hurt my enjoyment as a new player, and although I eventually grew used to the running speeds, it continued to be annoying and left me wanting to use fast travel instead of enjoying the walk through town. It also made me less likely to go over and see what was at sale in a stall, or run over and chat with an interesting npc. And generally hurt my enjoyment of the game.

    Now, this won't describe everybody, but I know it describes some people. My wife is the same way, having been used to the same roleplaying games as me with the faster running. It will likely describe many new players getting into the game, which is why I want to eventually offer them the option, even if the experienced players will usually be fine with the current system.

    And time compression really is such a odd system--old players have learned to use it, but new players like me really won't like doing it all the time, I personally hate it on land. ;)

    Anyway, that is my reasoning, let me know what you think. :)
     
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  20. Joer

    Joer Powder Monkey

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    Using time acceleration in game gives me immense motion sickness after just a few minutes of playing with it. So frankly, I never did like that system. Glad I'm not the only one.
     
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