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WIP Improve Baldewyn Coffier & Arnaud/Sabine Matton Sidequests

Discussion in 'Build Beta and Brainstorming' started by Pieter Boelen, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    As @Talisman mentioned in Confirmed Bug - Various Main and Side Quest Issues | PiratesAhoy!, there are definitely some rough edges regarding these sidequests.
    They seem to be quite fancy and even include code for when DANIELLE is the main character!!!
    But they also look somewhat unfinished. And with all modifications we've made, that has only become worse.

    So let's begin with the weirdness:

    - Baldewyn Coffier's odd salary requirements as described here: Fix in Progress - Quest Officer Salaries | Page 2 | PiratesAhoy!

    - Arnaud Matton seems to be a right bastard to Mr. Coffier. Eventually he admits to hating him, but doesn't mention why.
    Does that ever lead anywhere?

    - Reliance on the Standard Storyline quest progression:
    upload_2016-1-4_17-9-52.png
    He then wants her to be brought to San Juan.
    But of course with the Different Storylines and Periods, none of this necessarily makes any sense.

    - Apparently Sabine has a wish to sail somewhere for some reason:
    upload_2016-1-4_17-12-14.png
    Again, is any reference made to that later? If not, I might have a thought....

    - Sabine is a better officer than this Baldewyn Coffier whom I just hired!
    upload_2016-1-4_17-18-18.png
    Apparently she also takes after her "father", since she appears as a Shop Merchant here:
    upload_2016-1-4_17-18-24.png

    I even get to pay her a salary of 330 gold (as opposed to 115 for Baldewyn), even though the story claims that she is merely a PASSENGER.
    So again, not much sense there.
     
  2. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    - NO questbook entries for the Sabine part of the quest, apparently.
    Which could have been quite handy as a reminder of where this Sylvie character lives. :facepalm

    - It is CRAZY BUSY in Mrs. Bondies' house! Who ARE all these people?
    upload_2016-1-4_17-27-39.png

    - If I want to ransom Sabine, why do I need to go all the way to Puerto Rico and have this stupid woman believe every word I say when I'm obviously lying?
    And how can she have heard anything from Sabine? She wasn't with me!

    - Several ugly missing spaces in the dialog, making it look quite bad.
    And what is a "seigniorita"???

    - Second time I talk to her after not handing over the daughter, she gets into quite a panic.
    Even though she was quite happy to believe every word I fed her a minute ago.

    - When falling into the TRAP and Arnaud calls the guards, they never show up and no harm done.
    Not much of a trap, is it? And Sabine stays with me anyway and Arnaud no longer wants to talk to me.

    - Why would I accept 5000 gold from Arnaud when Silvie Bondies was willing to pay me the same, no questions asked?

    - Good to know "Sabine is so happy to see me" after I ransomed her.

    - If you choose the most evil option ever, you DON'T get to keep the girl AND the money, because you never get the money.
    And what are you going to do with the girl? Other than using her as an amazing Quartermaster, that is??? o_O
     
  3. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    In other words: There is a LOT of room for improvement.
    For example:
    - What if Baldewyn is more "adventurous" than Mr. Matton and Sabine likes him better as a father figure?
    That could explain the hatred! Also explains why Coffier is quite happy to join your crew.
    - Since Sabine would like her father to be a captain, maybe THAT could be the reason for sending her to Puerto Rico.
    Her "loving father" is trying to get in her good graces by sending her on a boat trip.

    I wonder if anyone else might be interested in having a go at improving all of this.
    For sure I'd appreciate @Talisman's feedback, since he is probably the most familiar with this all.

    And maybe @pedrwyth and/or @salonikasurf may be interested in bringing some more sense into all of this?

    In the meantime, I DID figure out why Mr. Matton never returns after the ransom scene.
    That was just a wrong locator and easily fixed. I added the same fix for the "ransom bad" option so that at least he'll go back to his store again.
     
  4. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    :readLooks like a suitable case for treatment - I would be happy to take a look and see what I can make of it.
     
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  5. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Thanks! I think since there are a fair bit of vague elements here, you can get creative with it. Might be fun! :cheers
     
  6. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    So after looking at the existing dialogues/events I think the back story should be something along the lines.

    Arnaud Matton is a deceitful, mean spirited man. He misused his position of trust given to him by "nice guy" Baldewyn Coiffer to ruin the latter and supplant him as storekeeper. Despite (or even partly because of how Baldewyn reacts) this he hates Coiffer because as with many small minded people he always blames someone else for their perceived misfortunes. In this case his wife so disliked his character as he became more mean each year that the ruination of honest Balewyn was the final straw and she left him - a fact that he can only construe to mean there was something between the two of them behind his back! He mistrusts everyone (note reference to Thomas O'reilly "I was sure he had double-crossed me") and reaps as he sows.

    The Arnaud v Balewyn segment can probably stay much as is except with rough edges and clashes with modded elements resolved - you can take Arnaud's side through ignorance, indifference or pure meanness, Baldewyn's through "misplaced" decency, honourable intentions, indifference and can help him a little or a lot (but see below too) or fall somewhere between the two.

    His daughter blames him for his mother leaving (and again Arnaud puts the blame for this on Baldewyn not himself) but stayed herself because her mother couldn't afford to support her and because she wanted to understand commerce and shop keeping with a view to controlling her own future but also dreams of adventure and a life more exciting which for good or bad she is about to get!

    Arnaud wants to marry her off (Sabine dialogue) to a rich but old merchant, hoping to ingratiate himself and win some extra commercial advantage - deep down he cares not for his daughter's interests, however his sister [not god mother] (whom it may turn out to be in a desperate plight (ala Jamaica Inn plot lines)) also is asking for the girl to help and comfort her.

    Your (pchar) options for Sabine will be to help Arnaud marry her off to a fat old man (bad- except she might soon be a rich widow in an expanded scenario) - maybe using a rehash of @Grey Roger 's wedding stuff but clearly under duress (yours), take her to her aunt (looks ok but may turn out to be bad if plot is extended later (nasty wreckers and worse)), set her up on her own - the game itself looks like it wants her as a heroine given the stats she keeps getting!!
    seadogs2_0001.tga

    - or ransom her somewhere - which will leave her at the mercy of her Father/Aunt (and if you cheat on that sell her to a brothel to be rid of her (bad bad)).

    So mostly bad outcomes except if you set her up on her own (or possibly with Baldewyn Coiffer whom we see as trustworthy) for a good-good outcome - again an extension here could see you return to help them be commercially succesful and oust Arnaud from his beloved shop.

    The reliance on the Oxbay invasion can be dealt with via referring to "the current hostilities" since France starts as enemy to someone in each of the game time periods (apart from changing relations screwing that if they make peace so perhaps "recent hostilities"/)

    Incidentally the barman who vouches for Baldewyn can't be trusted since he deliberately misleads you over how to find the shop (left instead of right when leaving the tavern) - to be amended

    So anyone feel sorry for Arnaud and object to this character assassination - or any other comments/suggestions (pros or cons) before I start trying to adapt the dialogues and scenes to fit?

    EDIT I will learn to spell the character names correctly by the time I finish!!:confused:
     

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
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  7. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Arnaud is indeed beginning to sound like a right bastard! :shock

    I suggested having him send his daughter off to Puerto Rico to give her the adventure she wishes for instead of having it linked to any hostilities at all.
    That would get past any reliance on nation relations and could serve to give him at least a wish to make up for his nasty deeds.
    Then he wouldn't be a complete black-hearted villain.
    That being said, him being "a pirate of commerce" could be an interesting spin as well.

    If I would be fully role-playing in the game, after finding out about Arnaud's badness, I wouldn't particularly want to do business with him anymore.
    So if you go that route, maybe he could come to a sticky end? Or at least have Sabine take over the store after her adventure instead of her father?

    Either way, any sort of consistency to the story will be better than what there is now.
    You're free to adapt it in whichever way you think is right. I wouldn't want to stifle your creativity! :cheers
     
  8. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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  9. Grey Roger

    Grey Roger Sea Dog Staff Member Storm Modder

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    Apparently Arnaud Matton stole Baldewyn Coffier's business. Perhaps help Baldewyn to take over the store in return? Of course, you may be unable to do that if you've hired him as your paymaster, but if you've gone that route then you're probably not into the branch of the quest which leads you to help him take over the store anyway.
     
  10. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    Even that is a can of worms. If I adjust his salary to match the calculation shown by @Levis in the other thread in early engagement he would take years to pay off his debt to you (you had him earning 115 it was 228 for me)- if you settle his debt with Arnaud. If I adjust the debt level to mirror his abilities to pay, you not only have a sliding scale of debt v game progress (which makes no sense in the overall game - unless he has serious compound interest problems - maybe that's why a debt collector is needed)- depending how early the quest is taken at the low level say 500 gold early on would leave you only earning 50 for doing anything which might put the player off bothering.

    So any quick salary band aid is likely to be no better than the unmatched dialogue and salary. A better temporary solution may be to stop the hiring option although that limits the help Baldewyn options until I can work through the multitude of quest variable cases, if statements and reputation dependent behaviours
     
  11. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    My solution would simply be to adjust his dialog to NOT mention his monthly salary at all. The 2500 would be a one-time payment to Arnaud.
    It may take a while for Baldewyn to "pay off his debt to you", but that doesn't affect the game in any way.
    Once he has joined you, he stays with you. And whatever "debt" he may still have to you plays no role one way or another.

    So I think this could be a simple dialog update and not much else. Right? :confused:
     
  12. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    If you want a dirty fix for the imminent release I would change the dialogue to be
    "How about if I square your debt, and you can pay me back out of your earnings - life on board is all found so you can give me most of it straight back?"

    and leave anyone who notices to comment on just how long that might take.

    Somewhere else he says he would need 2500 a month which I will have to think about too since one option is to agree!!

    EDIT OK worked out how to get round that, have the two Baldewyn dialogue files for you tomorrow am
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  13. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    That is quite a crazy amount; he'd have to be CRAZY good for that.
    But if he doesn't mention it as a monthly salary, then the 115 at least isn't wrong. :cheeky

    Thanks in advance! :cheers
     
  14. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    Well for what it 's worth here are the amended dialogues, I hope they are consistent - however it just really moves the inconsistencies within the quest a bit until a proper reworking can be achieved. It is not straightforward to trace the quest possibilities because it's mostly worked through interlinked dialogue files and attributes rather than having a nice set of linear easy to follow cases in the side quest file where there is virtually nothing - all very clever but...

    I have added some changes to Arnaud too so at least they are now all talking the same debt level (2500) since they can seem to crossover in BC's dialogue file. I have also added a reference to the amount of his (BC) debt in his dialogue otherwise you agree to a settle a debt you don't know the size of (and some of the checks if you have the money weren't [maybe still are n't] in place properly).
    His demand for 2500 salary isn't that crazy because that occurs if you have helped restore his business and he has just paid you a nice 10000 loan return and 5000 bonus (in a month) so he obviously can earn a lot in business so you need to meet him halfway!! However I have cut it out for now so he will throw away his business and go with you for a pittance - still no logic yet then!
    Sabine gets a salary of 1151 - as a passenger and stats that mean you would always want to keep her as an officer if played early on, just ignore the quest until you gain other officers with equal skills - so plenty more work needed ...,plus... plus.... (it is a mixed bag)
     

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  15. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Thanks @pedrwyth! Better is still better.

    Just to be sure, do you know what the "if player has 10000 gold" check is for?

    For Sabine, maybe just changing her init entry would give her some lower skills?
    Code:
    // Sabine Matton - SABINE MATTON
       ch.old.name = "Sabine";
       ch.old.lastname = "Matton";
       ch.old.nickname = "Sabie";
       ch.name = TranslateString("","Sabine");
       ch.nickname = TranslateString("","Sabie");
       ch.lastname = TranslateString("","Matton");
       ch.id     = "Sabine Matton";
       ch.FaceId = 15;
       ch.model = "towngirl1";
       ch.sound_type = "female_citizen";
       ch.sex = "woman";
       ch.location   = "none";
       ch.location.group = "goto";
       ch.location.locator = "goto2"; // NK
       ch.Dialog.Filename = "Sabine Matton_dialog.c";
       ch.greeting = "Gr_Sabine Matton";
       ch.nation = FRANCE;
       ch.rank    = 1;
       ch.reputation = "40";
       ch.experience = "0";
       ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
       ch.skill.Fencing = "0";
       ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
       ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
       ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
       ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
       ch.skill.Repair = "0";
       ch.skill.Defence = "0";
       ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
       ch.skill.Sneak = "0";
       ch.money = "10";
       ch.quest.meeting = "0";
       ch.quest.hire = "0";
       ch.quest.love = "0";
       LAi_SetMerchantType(ch);
       LAi_SetLoginTime(ch, 0.0, 24.0);
       LAi_group_MoveCharacter(ch, "FRANCE_CITIZENS");
       AddGameCharacter(n, ch);
    
    @Levis, could you confirm what might be needed there?
    At the moment it looks like she is coded to have ZERO skills for everyone and a rank of 1.
    But she becomes an awesome "store keeper" while only being the daughter of a store-keeper.

    Or is it that 'LAi_SetMerchantType' type again? Maybe swap that out with StayType?

    How would such a temporary "fake" officer be set to require NO salary?
    That just doesn't make sense for her....
     
  16. pedrwyth

    pedrwyth Privateer Storm Modder

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    Actually there are so many nuances to how you can work through these quests that, just like life, you will never know the whole story (unless you play several times with different choices).
    The 10000 check is for a strand where you loan BC the money, he pays back AM and invests the rest in his business, in a month you go back and he gives you the 10000 back plus a 5000 bonus (out the kindness of his heart) MUCH the most profitable way to solve the first part of the AM/BC quest before dealing with Sabine. The daft part is that you still can ask him to be your paymaster (as if) when he asks for 2500 a month (well did before I chopped that).

    For Sabine I wondered about adding the quest character attribute doesn't that keep them out of new salary calcs etc? and make her non removable too - but any suggestions in how to weave her through the new systems would be appreciated and save me looking for other examples - for me just taking her to use as an officer is too silly.
     
  17. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to me! :cheers

    I think @Levis would be the best person to help for that.
    As far as I'm aware, he doesn't have a "zero salary" option in place.
    Though perhaps his code would return a VERY low number of Sabine's skills are kept arbitrarily low.
    The "questch" attribute could help with that. Together with LAi_SetStayType instead of 'MerchantType', I think.
     
  18. Levis

    Levis Find(Rum) = false; Staff Member Programmer Creative Support Storm Modder

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    I will add a attribute so salaries won't change.
    So if you want her to have a fixed salary (of zero) you can just add the salary to her and the attribute.

    the attribute will be .NoRaise
    so if you add that to her when I upload my files that should prevent her from getting an other salary.


    The character is defined based on the rank and the skills.
    So if you give her skill 10 in commerce and the rest is 0 she will be level 4/5 with mostly focussed on commerce and a little bit xp in other regions.
     
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  19. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    But what about that character init entry you see above? She has ALL skills set to zero there. :shock
     
  20. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    @Levis: Would this help then?
    Code:
       ch.rank    = 1;
    [...]
       ch.experience = "0";
       ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
       ch.skill.Fencing = "0";
       ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
       ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
       ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
       ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
       ch.skill.Repair = "0";
       ch.skill.Defence = "0";
       ch.skill.Commerce = "2";
       ch.skill.Sneak = "0";
    [...]
       ch.questchar = true;
       ch.quest.officertype = OFFIC_TYPE_SHOPKEEPER;
       ch.quest.officerprice = 0;
       ch.quest.NoRaise = true;
       LAi_SetStayType(ch);
    
     

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