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Planned Feature Include Cannon Weight and Number in Cargo Capacity

Discussion in 'Build 15 Brainstorming' started by Pieter Boelen, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    With this Mod ENABLED (it is OFF by default), the cargo capacities for all ships are intended to be calculated like this:
    TOTAL Capacity =
    Weight required for standard supplies: calculated automatically in Auto Buy style
    + Weight required for standard set of cannons: uses weight for default type of cannons (NOT max calibre!) * maximum number of cannons
    + Crew Weight: refShip.MaxCrew * weight per crew
    + Extra Cargo Space: =refShip.capacity

    This gives us the following values we can play with:
    - Cannon WEIGHT: this is added to the capacity to ensure the cannons do fit on the ship
    - Hold capacity: these values should be tweaked so that they represent the CARGO capacity; this is added to the total capacity
    - Crew Weight: this is multiplied with Max Crew and added to the capacity
    - Supply Multiplier: This increases the Auto Buy supplies but also affects the behaviour of the Auto Buy button

    Pretty much. :yes

    We may want to forget that certain decks may contain cargo + cannon + crew with a certain ratio between all of those.
    It doesn't get any simpler that way and I think just figuring that "the main cargo hold could theoretically hold the FULL capacity (based on volume)" should be OK.
    Then the reason why the cargo hold isn't usually filled that much is because the ship cannot carry more weight than a certain amount.

    We may also want to distinguish two separate parts of this modification:
    1. Getting the functionality to work without GAME bugs, e.g. no random ships capsizing all the time, add checks to prevent overloading and ensure capacity is recalculated where appropriate
    2. Getting the numbers to make realistic/historical sense

    At the moment we have this mod just past the "proof of concept" stage in that it does work and changing the cannons and crew affects cargo capacity as intended.
    However, there are all sorts of game bugs that would need to be addressed before we cna start trying to get the numbers right.
    We do need to know what kind of toggles we need to be able to get those numbers right.
    And as tweaking the numbers doesn't require any massive coding knowledge, ideally that should be handled by somebody other than the people developing the code concepts themselves.
     
  2. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    There was a site I found years ago that I can not find now that actually described the process of converting an old frigate into a fast merchantman. From my alleged memory:

    1. Buying a ship at auction. Some were still sound but others had timbers so soft the could be dented with your thumbnail.
    2. After removing all cannons the under deck bracing needed to keep said cannons from falling through was removed or reduced due to lighter cannons being reinstalled. This created more room.
    2. Excess crew quarters were converted to cargo space. This applied to food stores also.

    Overall these ship sailed very well as they had a lower center of gravity due to more cargo being stored below and lighter cannons above. Many of them were also used as troop transport too.
     
  3. Levis

    Levis Find(Rum) = false; Staff Member Programmer Creative Support Storm Modder

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    If someone can come up with good numbers to have a calculation (so apply it on some different ships and see how it holds up) we can try to get this working again :).
     
  4. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    My suggestion: Skip my navy idea (actually inspired by @J Norrington's work)and we should have reasonable numbers to work with.
    The realism might be "off" but the foundation can be made to work.
     
  5. Levis

    Levis Find(Rum) = false; Staff Member Programmer Creative Support Storm Modder

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    I'm all ears of introducing this again. let's just include it and see how it works. thats the easiest way to get feedback
     
  6. Levis

    Levis Find(Rum) = false; Staff Member Programmer Creative Support Storm Modder

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    Just posting it here too. It might be nice to also be able to have extra crew on board by sacrificing cargo space.
     
  7. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    When we do the work for Planned Feature - Use Generic Captain and Ship Generation Functions | PiratesAhoy! ,
    it is my intention to have the supplies carried on random ships be determined by the Auto Supply feature.
    Any spare space can be filled up with cargo.

    Maybe we have to decrease these supplies to simulate ships having been at sea for a while already.
    Would that be considered necessary? And to what extent?

    If I recall, the "wrong" supplies was one of the main showstoppers in implementing the functionality as discussed in this thread.
    Which means that once we've got better control over those supplies, this might become more feasible as well.
    The code for it is still in place, after all; just disabled.
     
  8. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    It would be nice to have this in the game. I always keep at least a 30 day supply of food and rum on board as that is the maximum distance one can sail. For random NPCs it can be less to simulate them being out for a while already.

    Then comes sails and planks. These can be optional as I don't carry them early in the game but do carry them later on.

    Shot and powder is tricky as having enough for a big battle can take up all the room there is in a warship.
     
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  9. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    There are some settings related to that in InternalSettings.h:
    Code:
    // Store goods merchant AUTO BUY settings
    // For each ammo type, the button will buy this many rounds per cannon
    #define BALLS_PER           15.0      // FLOAT - suggested balls_per: 15.0
    #define GRAPE_PER           15.0      // FLOAT - suggested grape_per: 15.0
    #define CHAIN_PER           15.0      // FLOAT - suggested chain_per: 15.0
    #define BOMBS_PER           15.0     // FLOAT - suggested bombs_per: 15.0
    #define POWDER_PER           0.6667     // FLOAT - enough cannon powder to fire this fraction of your ammo
    
    Is 15.0 not enough? If so, that would be easily increased.

    There is already code in place to ensure that, when you start a new game, every "base" ship can carry at least the "default supplies".
    I did that when I worked on this feature last year, before temporarily abandoning it.
     
  10. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    Dunno. I never auto buy. It's completely wrong for me, but on the very rare occasions I use a warship I often have to choose what to leave behind in order to have enough shot and powder.
     
  11. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    @Hylie Pistof: Regardless of whether you use the Auto Buy button or not, the amounts that Auto Buy would get still affect the minimum cargo capacities of the ships.
    So if those amounts don't seem right, please say so because then they can be changed.
     
  12. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    Again, I don't know if those amounts are good or not as I never use them. In fact I rarely use my cannons at all and usually carry a very light load that is only good enough for a short skirmish, like when entering or leaving a port.
     
  13. Pieter Boelen

    Pieter Boelen (Not So) Old Seadog Staff Member Administrator Storm Modder Hearts of Oak Donator

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    Very well; then until I hear otherwise, I'll keep it as-is.

    You might consider changing those InternalSettings.h values to your personal liking and then start to use Auto Buy.
    Unless you always want something differnent; then it would never work anyway.... :wp
     
  14. Hylie Pistof

    Hylie Pistof Curmudgeon Staff Member QA Tester Storm Modder

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    There is that. Early in the game I use a very light load, only enough to puncture a few sails. Then later in the game I carry more ammo as well as repair materials. Only if I know I'm going into a big battle will I gear up for it.

    Others who fight a lot will have different priorities.
     
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