Lockpicks

[Tingyun]

Aside from the +1 luck, are lock picks truly beneficial?

I understand they double your chances of picking a lock. But I actually find this to be bad, because you get luck XP for failing to pick a lock and setting off traps. Traps generally do minimal damage, so I always prefer to just fail more often and get more luck XP.

Lock picks can break inside the lock, which is annoying as well.

Wondering if I am missing something about the mechanics that makes them a good idea to use.

Perhaps you should need lock picks in order to pick a lock at all. Or you only get luck XP for picking locks if usin lock picks (if not using lock picks, the justification could be you are forcing the lock wih brute force, and do not receive XP).

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think you described the situation quite accurately.
The advantage is of course meant to be that picking locks is easier and you don't get hurt.
But you're definitely right about the actual effect being a bit reversed in consequence.

 

[Grey Roger]

There are a couple of places in the "Ardent" storyline where lockpicks are useful. But the code just checks if you have one, the lockpick doesn't even need to be equipped, then whatever is supposed to happen as a result of you having a lockpick will happen.

As for general use, I agree - they're worse than useless. Try to pick a lock without a lockpick, maybe fail a few times, get a few percent "Luck", eventually succeed. Try to pick a lock with a lockpick, maybe your chance of failing is less, so you have less chance to earn that percent "Luck", and maybe jam the lock so you can never get at the contents of the chest.

The excuse for damaging yourself while trying to pick a lock (other than setting off a one-time trap) is that your knife slipped into your hand. Perhaps make the chance of success depend on the sort of weapon you have equipped - if it's something small like a dagger or knife then have a better chance than if it's a sword. If you have a lockpick equipped then you can't be injured. And if the lockpick breaks then you can still open the chest using a weapon to force the lock, but equipping a second lockpick won't have any effect - you can't use a lockpick if there's one already stuck in the lock.

 

[Levis]

So would it break anything if we require you to have a lockpick if you want to open a lock?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So would it break anything if we require you to have a lockpick if you want to open a lock?

I think that would MASSIVELY reduce the looting potential as basically all random chests, including treasure chests, do.
That would definitely have a notable impact on the game. But would that be considered a good or a bad thing?

Alternate idea: What if you gain Defence skill when not using a Lockpick and you "knife slips", but get Luck skill if you DO successfully use a Lockpick?

 

[Levis]

I think that would MASSIVELY reduce the looting potential as basically all random chests, including treasure chests, do.
That would definitely have a notable impact on the game. But would that be considered a good or a bad thing?

Alternate idea: What if you gain Defence skill when not using a Lockpick and you "knife slips", but get Luck skill if you DO successfully use a Lockpick?

well you just need to make sure you are stocked on lockpicks ... they might break sometimes so you need a few.
We could also give you the opertunity to use "brute force" to break open the chest. and with some chests this might work. other you might need something with a bit more power like a bomb but if you do that the treasure inside might be blown up too .
I would really like it if you got that option

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds to me like that is potentially adding a substantial amount of complexity for something that might as well be simple....

 

[Grey Roger]

The problem is that lockpicks are worse than useless because they can break and leave the chest permanently impossible to open. Can't we fix the problem by improving lockpicks rather than by spoiling the rest of the chest-looting system? Hence my suggestion that using a lockpick prevents you from injuring yourself, and breaking a lockpick only prevents use of another lockpick, it doesn't prevent further attempts to force the chest open in the normal manner.

Is there any way to put a target on a chest? Because there's one way to open a locked chest, probably the one favoured by pirates, which we can't do at the moment, which is to shoot the lock off.

 

[Levis]

The problem is that lockpicks are worse than useless because they can break and leave the chest permanently impossible to open. Can't we fix the problem by improving lockpicks rather than by spoiling the rest of the chest-looting system? Hence my suggestion that using a lockpick prevents you from injuring yourself, and breaking a lockpick only prevents use of another lockpick, it doesn't prevent further attempts to force the chest open in the normal manner.

Is there any way to put a target on a chest? Because there's one way to open a locked chest, probably the one favoured by pirates, which we can't do at the moment, which is to shoot the lock off.

hmmmm....I like shooting the lock off, it consumes pistol bullets so it does take something.... might have to look into that but it defently is on my wishlist together with using bombs to blow up the chest. but in the meantime we can change the lockpick.
Do you think it should still have the +1 bonus?
Breaking a lockpick to prevent using another lockpick sounds fine. and only then you can get damage sounds fine too. I could look into that if everyone agrees.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The problem is that lockpicks are worse than useless because they can break and leave the chest permanently impossible to open. Can't we fix the problem by improving lockpicks rather than by spoiling the rest of the chest-looting system?

I'd prefer that too.

Hence my suggestion that using a lockpick prevents you from injuring yourself, and breaking a lockpick only prevents use of another lockpick, it doesn't prevent further attempts to force the chest open in the normal manner.

Preventing another lockpick to be used sounds doable, but that still doesn't actually give a bonus to using one.
So maybe use my suggestion in addition to your own, so add Luck any time you are successful with a Lockpick.
And add Defence XP only when you hit yourself with your knife.

Both changes sound quite simple to do.

 

[Grey Roger]

Don't use bombs to try to force open a powder barrel, and don't try to shoot off the lock either.

The lockpick should have at least a +1 bonus, possibly more. Otherwise why bother with it?

Perhaps have some fixed chests which can only be opened with a lockpick. The one outside the loanshark's office in Port Royale is an obvious candidate - he's not going to leave anything interesting in there unless it's secured by a good lock which can't be forced by any roaming pirate with a knife. But if you break a lockpick, it needs to reset after a while, perhaps when you leave the island entirely - the owner is going to want to repair the lock so he can get into the chest.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Would you want to define "locked" and "not locked" for all locks in the game....?

My suggestions:
- Broken lockpick means you cannot use a lockpick anymore (lock doesn't get permanently stuck closed)
- Succeeding with a lockpick gives Luck XP
- Failing without a lockpick AND the blade slipping in your hand/hitting a booby trap gives Defence XP
- Regular failing without a lockpick gives no XP at all (so basically serves just to waste your time!)
- Lockpick gives +1 in Luck Skill

And let's SKIP:
- Certain locks requiring a lockpick (because you'd need to define it per lock, which would be a lot of work)
- Shooting locks open (how does the game know you aimed at it anyway?)
- Blowing it up yourself using a bomb
- Have the chance depending on whatever weapon you had equipped

I think that should serve the purpose with the least changes and effort possible.

 

[Grey Roger]

So maybe use my suggestion in addition to your own, so add Luck any time you are successful with a Lockpick.
And add Defence XP only when you hit yourself with your knife.

Or just leave the skills alone as they're not the problem. Besides, you're getting plenty of Defence XP for being hit in combat and for your ship being hit in battle, so you don't really need another source of Defence XP. On the other hand, if you have any intention of gambling with a view to doing the "Girl Won in a Card Game" side quest then you need a source of Luck XP, preferably one which isn't dependent on you finding a particular piece of equipment. The current system works nicely for that.

Maybe find some other uses for lockpicks as well? Perhaps allow a lockpick to open a door which is closed for the night so you can do a bit of burglary.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Or just leave the skills alone as they're not the problem.

Yes they are, because as @Tingyun says: If you don't use a Lockpick, you get skills, but if you use a lockpick, you get nothing.
So why would you use it at all if you get nothing in return? That is why I am suggesting that you DO get something in return.

On the other hand, if you have any intention of gambling with a view to doing the "Girl Won in a Card Game" side quest then you need a source of Luck XP, preferably one which isn't dependent on you finding a particular piece of equipment. The current system works nicely for that.

Do some gambling then.

And since a lockpick is reusable, once you get one, you can continue getting Luck like usual.
Not indefinitely though, since it can break after a while. Hardly a huge change one way or another.

 

[Grey Roger]

Yes they are, because as @Tingyun says: If you don't use a Lockpick, you get skills, but if you use a lockpick, you get nothing.
So why would you use it at all if you get nothing in return? That is why I am suggesting that you DO get something in return.

Fair enough, add some XP for using the lockpick. Maybe give Luck XP for failed attempts without a lockpick as at present, but using a lockpick gets you more Luck XP per failed attempt and also some XP for a successful attempt.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Maybe give Luck XP for failed attempts without a lockpick as at present

Why? You get Defence as well. Bit double?

using a lockpick gets you more Luck XP per failed attempt

There is no failure with Lockpicks. Or are you referring to when it breaks?

If you get Luck for everything all the time, it seems a bit excessive.
You get it for not using a Lockpick and failing, you get it for using it and failing and when succeeding.
In other words: You never don't get it.

 

[Levis]

Would you want to define "locked" and "not locked" for all locks in the game....?

My suggestions:
- Broken lockpick means you cannot use a lockpick anymore (lock doesn't get permanently stuck closed) Agreed
- Succeeding with a lockpick gives Luck XP Agreed
- Failing without a lockpick AND the blade slipping in your hand/hitting a booby trap gives Defence XP I sugest no XP at all in this case
- Regular failing without a lockpick gives no XP at all (so basically serves just to waste your time!) Agreed
- Failing when using a lockpick gives Luck XP but less then succeeding
- Lockpick gives +1 in Luck Skill Agreed altough I might sugest adding a numneed for it, so you need for example 3 lockpicks to get the +1 unless we are going trough with the divider for itembonuses

And let's SKIP:
- Certain locks requiring a lockpick (because you'd need to define it per lock, which would be a lot of work) Could be set on random... first time you try the lock it determines if you require a lockpick or not?
- Shooting locks open (how does the game know you aimed at it anyway?) maybe someday
- Blowing it up yourself using a bomb This will get in the game someway but probably not soon
- Have the chance depending on whatever weapon you had equipped agreed

I think that should serve the purpose with the least changes and effort possible.

replied in the quote

 

[Pieter Boelen]

"Agreed altough I might sugest adding a numneed for it, so you need for example 3 lockpicks to get the +1 unless we are going trough with the divider for itembonuses"
I think I quite like the divider. Let's try that first.

 

[Grey Roger]

Why? You get Defence as well. Bit double?

You get Defence? I never noticed - must be lost among all the Defence XP I got in the fight before I reached the chest. Remove the Defence XP, then.

There is no failure with Lockpicks. Or are you referring to when it breaks?

I thought a lockpick gave you +1 Luck for locks, so you can still fail to pick it. You just keep trying until you succeed or the lockpick breaks.

If you get Luck for everything all the time, it seems a bit excessive.
You get it for not using a Lockpick and failing, you get it for using it and failing and when succeeding.
In other words: You never don't get it.

Except when you don't use a lockpick and you succeed. And you don't get many points per failed attempt anyway as far as I can see. At low skill level it accounts for a percent or two. At higher level you need to fail a lot to even get 1%, and because you have a high Luck level you don't fail often.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I thought a lockpick gave you +1 Luck for locks, so you can still fail to pick it. You just keep trying until you succeed or the lockpick breaks.

Either it works immediately or it breaks. There is no "fail and try again" with lockpicks.