A thread for discussing everything and anything neurodiversity related, including general self-care, latest news, and cultural developments.
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Neurodiversity
- Thread starter Cerez
- Start date
I've just learned that the Hollywood movie they are making of Steve Silberman's NeuroTribes will be a biopic based on the story of Dr. Hans Asperger's clinic and research, and of Dr. Leo Kanner's betrayal of humankind through his selfish exploitation of Asperger's research and covert efforts to suppress existing knowledge of autism and turn it to his own gains.
It will likely be a heavy drama, seeing as so many autistic people have suffered under Kanner's cruel treatments.
I'm looking forward to seeing the film (if I ever get to). I feel this part of history should be well known by everyone, as it speaks strongly about human nature -- both the good and bad sides of us.
This is an Autistic interview with Steve Silberman, the author of the award-winning and Autistically (and generally) culturally significant book:
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Nice, let me start something.
As a dyslexic my experience in school has been mixed.
Things got better once I got diagnosed and now I also get orally examined. It wasn't that bad, but now it's better.
I was tested once in the past but the test came out negative, after many years I was retested and now it was positive.
I will definitely watch it once it comes out, hopefully you will live to see it you already will live longer than expected and we will talk about the movie.
I'm curious, do you find that your mind/brain works better in your learning using pictures rather than words? Those of us who struggle with language tend to be more visually oriented thinkers.
I'm not sure if you know, but there's an online Dyslexic community on Tumblr: #actuallydyslexic
It's kind of intermingled with the Autistic/ADHD community in many places.
I'd really like that. ^_^Last edited:
I am mostly affected in the spelling of words, pictures may help but generally I remember what I read.
For example I haven't read the witcher for a few months, yet I remember what happened and where I am.
I have never used Tumblr or, maybe some time randomly and I don't remember that it was it.I'm not sure if you know, but there's an online Dyslexic community on Tumblr: actuallydyslexic | Tumblr
It's kind of intermingled with the Autistic/ADHD community in many places.
That sounds like visual thinking to me. Are your memories visuals/pictures -- like the layout of the page or a vivid scene from the novel?
True, I heavily visualize books and when possible I read the dialogues with the voice of the actors who portrayed them and/or gave their voice.
I'm the opposite. I have poor visual imagination, and I tend to remember things by the feeling, the atmosphere. When I visualise places and characters in novels, I tend to tie them to experiences I've had in my personal life, and the memory of those people/places -- which have proven often visually inaccurate.
One thing that my brain tends to do a lot is to merge different locations into one place in my memory, based on the experience. So I have vivid memories of places that don't actually exist -- only in my memories.
Nice video, I could easily see Monk in it.
Yep. One thing I really like about Adrian Monk is that they've really fleshed out his character, going past the autistic savant trope, and richly showing the social disability (autism, OCD) and the many mental illnesses he's accumulated, and the daily struggles he has to live with in an accepting and mostly supportive environment. The traits that help him excel also play a part in making his life much more difficult, and this is a very realistic portrayal. We really get to live with him and see both sides of the coin, so to speak.
I honestly think Monk is one of the most fleshed out autistic (and otherwise neurodivergent) characters ever created so far on film and TV.
I get a little rush of warmth and excitement every time one of his autistic traits show stronger -- and they do in so many different ways! :3
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There is also an autistic (I think) boy that monk takes care of for a short while in the episode named; Mr. Monk and the Kid (S3 E16).
Maybe it will interest you.
There is also an autistic (I think) boy that monk takes care of for a short while in the episode named; Mr. Monk and the Kid (S3 E16).
Maybe it will interest you.
Looking forward to it! I've just finished season one.
Pixar has created two neurodiversity themed, creatively independently made shorts -- one, called Float, released this year, and the other, with a nonverbal autistic girl, called Loop, coming out the 10th of January in the new year:
Float Review
Pixar's New Short Film Is About a Nonverbal Autistic Girl
This is one thing I will definitely get to see. Excited! ^_^
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Pixar does good stuff.
They really do.
Watched "Float" just now.
I immediately imagine the sequel where a whole bunch of other kids turn out to have that ability too.
Because, as it turns out, the officially defined "normal" was never anywhere near normal to begin with.
It also reminds me of what appears to be the opposite problem to yours that keeps following me no matter where I go.
When I was 10 years old, my aunt determined I was probably "extra gifted".
It was probably my mum who then printed the "autism" hypothesis in the mind of our 'home physician'.
And no matter what I do, that (unproven!) notion simply REFUSES TO LET GO!
Already when I was young, I consciously made the choice to want to have as normal a life as possible.
But with a family like mine, that's a luxury I've never had.
I think my mum herself is finally beginning to learn how very wrong she's been about me all her life.
But in the meantime, I've had to suffer from having to literally act more autistic than I am for well over 30 years!
Even just hearing that word aimed at myself pretty much makes me want to punch people in the face.
It's been claimed forever that I'm supposedly terrible at reading other people; especially their emotions.
At the same time, I completely noticed when a waitress in a restaurant was struggling with personal issues.
And I wasn't even trying to or paying all that much attention at all.
Because I was never that bad at it in the first place.
I just believed I was because that is what had been drilled into my head all throughout my life.
Looking back though, it was never true.
I was just unable to see myself for who I am.
Because my parents are unable to see me for who I am.
Because they themselves are so traumatized that they cannot even see THEIR selves for who they are.
And I believe that problem is rampant in this world.
So many people, incapable of looking in the mirror.
At the same time, my highly sensitive psychologist a year ago confirmed he does not believe I am autistic.
He IS, however, willing to believe I am highly sensitive; same as he is.
He also said HSPs often function as "mirrors" for people, letting others see in themselves what they do not wish to know about themselves.
And that makes him/me/us very, VERY threatening.
He also said in his experience "people" at large generally can deal with autism.
But dealing with HSPs is really a bridge too far.
Apparently he's suffered a fair bit of mistreatment/discrimination based on it.
In this society, men are supposed to be LOW on emotions.
So being a highly sensitive male is quite the curse indeed.
Extra bad when you (read: I) keep being treated as the exact polar opposite.
Because "people" simply cannot comprehend.
Because they HAVE to not comprehend!
It's a defence mechanism against the threat of seeing the bad in themselves.
And that leads to an infinity of victim-blaming.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around what your parents did to you. The situation is usually exactly the opposite -- parents, influenced by our ableist culture, automatically push their autistic children to act neurotypical, to mask our autistic traits, which causes our body to burn out in the long run, as we never learn proper autistic (not neurotypical!) self-care, and society is built to create a high-pressure environment that only neurotypical people can handle. I'm sorry to hear that your parents subjected you to such trauma. It was far from the right thing to do.
After getting to know you, I do believe that you are neurodivergent, but not autistic. You have a lot of neurotypical traits, but you also have neurodivergent traits.
Your psychologist also has some very strange advice. He is right about the "mirror" part, but how we experience our social lives depends on who we surround ourselves with. There are other people who share your emotional nature -- regardless of gender. We need to surround ourselves with people who accept and support us, who make us feel good in our own skin. Being in the wrong social environment can be toxic for us and dangerously deplete our spirit (leading to severe physical and mental illness, and even death). How people respond to you also depends on your own approach and behaviour -- and that is something you can change with greater insight. Your high empathy is a useful skill/gift you can use here to gain insight and practice interacting with new people a different way that feels natural to you, but that saves you from harm.
Also, do not give in to binary social expectations (male/female). Gender is a spectrum and in nature we are not all that polarised from one another, and certainly not based on binary gender stereotypes. A man can be highly empathic/emotional, and a woman can be cold and rational. Gender, in itself, doesn't shape/define our personality. Social expectations based on binary genders are stereotyped and discriminatory.
HSP, or as we in the Autistic community refer to it, hyperempathy, is not all that rare among both autistics and allistics (a.k.a. neurotypicals and other neurodivergents, non-autistics). Granted, it's not mainstream, but you'll find there are quite a few of us who relate to others and the world as you do, and who face similar problems. Hyperempathy is a gift as much as a curse -- it depends on how you look at it and how you use it, and the social environment you live in. It allows you to gather more insight and, ultimately, wisdom than most people, but it also causes you to feel more when people are out of balance and acting (self-)destructively.
Also keep in mind that we tend to be more tender where we have been bruised. Experiencing a lot of abuse tends to make us more sensitive and more cautious by nature. This is not a curse -- it's more like an automatic self-defence mechanism put in place by our body, intended to protect us. Get well acquainted with your body and intuition (that are trying to keep you safe), and consciously aid your body in protecting yourself from harm and gradually building up resistance (with balanced strategies).
Maybe you're not such an odd duck out after all.
You're confused on it and so is everyone else.
My parents and myself included.
So welcome to the club!
It was mostly subconscious on their part anyway.
I'm convinced they honestly tried to do right.
Maybe this here offers some measure of explanation though:
The Highly Sensitive Person on an Emotionally Neglectful Environment - by Dr Jonice Webb on PsychCentral
Indeed I'm quite willing to believe I'm not neurotypical.
Even if for no other reason than that what I have seen from "neurotypical" is downright offensive.
I would be ashamed to be one of them and therefore I'll always make the choice not to be.
I generally side with the underdog and not with the large crowd.
Because I believe that usually it's the underdogs who both deserve and need support the most.
And also, I still haven't gotten to the point that I believe "neurotypical" even exists.
It seems like a myth to me. An act most people put up to defend themselves from that ever-present and ever-harmful "us vs. them" logic.
But it's not real. It never was. And it never can be.
The truth is so much simpler.
We're all different.
Some more perhaps than others, but in the end that doesn't even matter.
And instead of making that out to be a bad thing, we should be celebrating it.
Don't force people into some sort of box of made-up expectations.
Instead, why don't we let everyone and help everyone be the best versions of themselves instead?
Other than that, I need to re-read your valuable post there again later.
Just about time for bed here.
But I wanted to leave you with at least these few initial thoughts of mine.
From this description, HSP is literally being autistic or neurodivergent with hyperempathy. Sensitivity to lights, sounds, textures, etc. is Sensory Processing Difference/Disorder, which is most common with neurodivergent people, though it occurs in the whole of the neurodiversity spectrum. The same thing with hyperempathy -- the basis for the parental emotional abuse and trauma inflicted on the child that the rest of the article is about.
I know it's hard when you've experienced abuse from people with certain traits, but please don't turn ableist. People can be decent regardless of their neurotype. Just because someone is neurotypical doesn't make them a bad person. Whether we are a good or bad person lies with how in tune we are with our intuition (with nature inside us) and in the active choices we make.
I does, very much so, just in various colours, as, like autism, it, too, is a spectrum. No two neurotypical people are the same. The character of Sharona in the TV series Monk is 100% neurotypical, for example. Feels completely at home with socialising with the majority of people, values ego and emotion over truth and reason, has a strong preference for breaking established patterns, and has strong assertive and leadership skills. This provides a strong contrast in her relationship with the show's main character, Adrian Monk, who is autistic, with OCD and various phobias. He values truth and reason above all, lacks adequate social skills with most people, has a strong preference for following established rules/patterns, and has poor assertive and leadership skills.
Stottlemeyer is also wholly neurotypical on the show, whereas Randy is otherwise neurodivergent (with a strong parodied/comic character appeal).
It matters, because as a society, as a collective, we should be catering to all our people, meeting everyone's basic human needs.
To say that it "doesn't matter", or that we are all the mostly the same, means denying the existence and needs of those of us who stand further apart.
This is a common rookie mistake that people who advocate for diversity make, as it comes from influence from our current, predominantly ableist culture. Not all people are the same, and that is okay. Diversity is natural and it is a good thing. We need to make sure that as a(n inescapable) society we accept every human body and we cater to everyone's human needs equally -- even if/when this means equity, proportionate and/or individual accommodations.
Precisely. That's what the concept of neurodiversity is about, as it comes to different human neurotypes.
Other than that, I need to re-read your valuable post there again later.
Just about time for bed here.
But I wanted to leave you with at least these few initial thoughts of mine.
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This is an hour-long web presentation by ASAN AUNZ committee member and Australian Autistic phychologist, Jacky den Houting, on neurodiversity:
It sheds light on much of the confusion surrounding disability and accommodations in our society, due to prevalent ableism in our culture.
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Also, a great short film on autistic stimming:
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