Neurodiversity

[Cerez]

As I said, I don't disagree with this, Pieter. Celebrating differences is what neurodiversity is all about.

What I'm (so far unsuccessfully) trying to explain to you is that this same concept you are using is currently culturally being abused to oppress autistic people by not catering to and erasing our different needs and forcing neurotypical social expectations onto us. Ableism is currently predominant and ingrained in our society (the norm), and I have to face it every day. Saying things like "everyone is (a little) autistic" and "no one is autistic", as well as functioning labels, only serve to dismiss and discredit the difficulties autistic people face every day that allistics don't have to, that make our lives so much harder, often near-impossible to live, in this society. They serve to stop autistic people from advocating for ourselves and voicing our negative experiences and concerns about the current state of things as it impacts our lives.

Being autistic in current human society is a difference that equally presents (great) additional challenges as well as positive traits and experiences (when finding acceptance). To look at only the positive means denying the reality of the situation.

 

[Cerez]

Once gain, as I feel we've kind of missed this presentation entirely:

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What I'm (so far unsuccessfully) trying to explain to you is that this same concept you are using is currently culturally being abused

ANY concept can be abused.
That doesn't render the concept invalid.
It just renders the use invalid.

You know why I use the concept.
I use it specifically against the abuse that I myself have suffered all my life.

I believe virtually all labelling is a dead end.
Because people cannot be summarised in a few easy-to-remember labels.

And you, @Cerez, don't need to be treated "differently" because you are autistic or suffer from autism.
You simply deserve to be treated differently because you are your own person with your own needs.
You should be treated as if you are "Cerez".
Just like @The Nameless Pirate should be treated like "TNP".
And I would very much like to treated as myself.

I find that many people want others to be like themselves.
Like in that "Parable of the Polygons", if you remember that one.
And so I feel like my friends want me to become more like them.
Plus truth be told, I would appreciate them becoming a bit more like me as well.

But more than that, I don't want to live in a world with only Pieters.
I want to live in a world that has a "Cerez" that gets to live here life as @Cerez.
And a world in which "TNP" can be the best version of himself too.

Your "autistic" versus "allistic" debate scares me.
Because I feel a lot of anger in it.
Righteous indignation too.
And deservedly so.

But I feel like it's driving a wedge between good people.
Which I can guarantee for sure.
It is even putting me off.

I wished it didn't.
But it does.
And I would lie if I were to claim otherwise.

So there lies a clear challenge for all of us.
How DO we find that common ground to work from?

 

[Cerez]

So there lies a clear challenge for all of us.
How DO we find that common ground to work from?

I think the start comes with more information, with insight and education. I understand your strong feelings against labels, and I share some of it, but at the same time I believe that generalised labels such as "neurotypical" and "autistic" are necessary for acknowledging our differences and meeting everyone's needs in society. Everyone is different, but some of us struggle more than others in current society, and it's important to acknowledge that and provide supports.

These labels shouldn't be used to stereotype, stigmatise, and segregate -- they should be used to acknowledge our support needs, to provide solidarity and to acknowledge and accept our individual differences so that we can better work together and understand each other.

If I never knew I was autistic, I would not have survived this far -- I would have killed myself desperately trying to prove that I am neurotypical. Because that's what not acknowledging a person's autism means in our current society -- forcing them to act neurotypical (pretending to be a neurotype they are not, and overburdening their body and health with stress) in order to find social acceptance. Only a disabled person can truly understand what that means -- how painful that is, how it destroys their body/health and life.

I am proudly Autistic for this reason -- because it's who I am and who I want to be accepted as. Because of all the challenges I have had to face in our society just for being autistic. Because I believe that I deserve to have my autistic basic human needs met equally, and to have the same opportunities as everyone else.

And you, @Cerez, don't need to be treated "differently" because you are autistic or suffer from autism.

I don't "suffer from autism", I am autistic, my body is autistic -- with all the good and bad that comes with that. I am my own individual, and I don't ask to be "treated differently", I ask for my autistic human needs to be equally acknowledged and met.

 

[Cerez]

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Malena Ernman on daughter Greta Thunberg: ‘She was slowly disappearing into some kind of darkness’

"It’s Greta’s own fault, the school thinks; several children have said repeatedly that Greta has behaved strangely and spoken too softly and never says hello."

That article literally got me silently weeping.
Victim-blaming seems like second nature to "civilized" people.
But it's truly lethal...

 

[Cerez]

Oh, be careful with digging into the ableist propaganda that is out there surrounding autism. It will not only get you down, it will drag you deep into the deepest depths of depression.

The level of deception, mistreatment, and abuse -- the human cruelty -- is just insane.

Somehow autism actually happens to be inseparably linked to our humanity (the human condition), and you will find the worst of humanity making autism a tragedy and mistreating autistic people. I find this is the same reason that our current society mistreats autistic people -- because we don't fit its imbalanced agenda, and reveal its flaws.

I rarely say this, because it can be misunderstood, based on one's culture, but the way I, personally, picture it is this:

Common People -> Autistic People -> Animals

We (autistic people) are somehow the link between humanity and their environment. We are actually in the middle, and can relate to both sides equally (both to nature and to humanity). So out of all people we feel the strongest when human society acts against nature.

Common people think that animals are dumb. We know this is not the case. Similarly, common people think we are dumb -- which, again, is not at all the case.

An autistic person (who has experienced severe hardships) understands that a human being is an animal -- a notion that society culturally rejects. They see the imbalance in the socially "normal" person -- the clouded judgement, the lack of intuition, the adherence to imbalanced/harmful social norms.

We've had to learn to recognise when allistic (non-autistic) people use our predicament to their advantage -- when even our own parents make tragedies of us and parade us around as their personal circus animals, just so they can get social attention. When the professionals who are supposed to be there to help us side with society's negative and harmful perception of us, and mistreat us to disempower us and keep us quiet.

Make no mistake, it's a tough (societal) world out there -- especially if you're neurodivergent and disabled.

There is good reason why Autistic self-advocates have learned to be so "rude" and "aggressive", and why we let certain remarks and questions pass us by, appearing not to pay mind to them. If we stopped to face every ableist person out there, we would be taking on the whole world at once -- and that's a burden no-one is strong enough to carry, a burden that would crush any soul.

We live in a severely imbalanced world culture, where it is still fit to throw a non-speaking person into an institution and lock them away from the world. Where autistic people are being tortured and punished (even receiving electric shock, gruesomely real!) for not behaving neurotypical, for not blending in with ableist social expectations.

There is very good reason why suicide among autistics is so high -- and it has nothing to do with our autism. It has everything to do with the way society/people treat(s) us.

But you won't find that publicised anywhere. Instead we are still looking for a "cure" for autism, trying to eliminate autistic people and traits from humankind. These are traits that, ironically, helped humanity progress to the "civilised" lives we are living today. Without autistic people, without neurodivergent human traits, humanity would not be where it is today. We would likely still be living in caves, constantly fighting each other for supremacy.

It took not fitting in, breaking away from your tribe in mind, defying current social conventions to use fire, to invent the wheel and the rope, and create everything else that followed.

Neurodivergent people invent -- neurotypical people make use of inventions and popularise them. Just look at Henry Cavendish, Charles Darwin, Nikola Tesla, and Albert Einstein, and the impact of their life's work, to name a few neurodivergent individuals.

Take away autism, and you take away an essential part of humanity. But wait, such a thing is outrageous to say. Autistic people need to be eradicated from the face of this earth. And we need to channel all donations and funds into research into curing autism -- not to actually assisting autistic people and helping end the social discrimination and persecution.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It will not only get you down, it will drag you deep into the deepest depths of depression.

Ouch.
I'm basically already there...

 

[Cerez]

Ouch.
I'm basically already there...

Don't try to deal with the whole world. Try and deal with your immediate environment, with your reality. Make life around you good, any way you can -- that's the best we can do as individuals, and it's more than enough.

And stop listening to the news and social media. It's not reality.

Instead focus on working on and with your body, with nature. Learn to intuit and to take positive action -- gradually, one small step at a time.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I agree with @Cerez.

One thing that I can think of, that you like and brings you joy; is sailing. Except if I have missed something @Pieter Boelen.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Cerez' post somehow managed to fly completely below my radar!
Beats me how that happened.
I'm used to me noticing stuff...

So a belated thank you!
And also thanks to @The Nameless Pirate for drawing my attention to if again.

Don't try to deal with the whole world.

My bad.
I did actually try to think big.
Before.
But you're right.
Have to think smaller...

And stop listening to the news and social media. It's not reality.

I've been avoiding TV and printed news for about half my lifetime.
My sarcasm tended to summarize most articles as "stupid people being stupid".
Bit harsh of me, I suppose...

One thing that I can think of, that you like and brings you joy; is sailing. Except if I have missed something @Pieter Boelen.

Sailing can indeed be pretty brilliant.
Also a lot of complexities surrounding it though.
Maintenance; money; crewing.
But when it works, it really works.

 

[Cerez]

So a belated thank you!

You're quite welcome, Pieter. And thanks to @The Nameless Pirate for bringing it up again. ^_^

My bad.
I did actually try to think big.
Before.
But you're right.
Have to think smaller...

I know it, because I've been doing the same.

Those of us who are more empathic and care for others, for everyone, collectively, end up depressed and ill sooner. It's wrong, but that's just how this human society works. So the trick is to train yourself to worry only about those things that truly matter in your life -- yourself and those closest to you who you accept into your life -- and to dismiss everything else as not really part of your reality. You're not responsible for the messed up state of the world. You're responsible only for your own life, health, and actions. We only have one living body, and we only live once -- time is precious if you know how to appreciate life.

And, once again, it's not selfish to care for your body, to care for yourself. Selfishness is having no care for others -- but as an empathic person you already do care, that's inherent, so as long as you feel for others, you can't be selfish. You and only you can choose the sacrifices you make in life -- do not fall for people socially pressuring you into making sacrifices for them, this is morally wrong. This is very important. You can't pressure someone into making sacrifices for you, or expect this of them -- this is their own choice, of their own free will. You own your body, you own your life.

Also, note that, socially, no-one really cares when you get chronically ill and sick -- you are simply excluded socially and written off as useless to society. So if you don't take care of your body and yourself, you end up both paying the price and feeling like a fool. It's harsh, but true.

Take care of your own body and life first, make things better in your immediate environment, and then, if you still have the resources, gradually expand that care outwards, towards a wider circle of others -- but with care that your inner circle is not neglected and doesn't crumble as a result.

You need to be satisfied with your living/life, with your body and spirit well cared for, first and foremost.

My sarcasm tended to summarize most articles as "stupid people being stupid".
Bit harsh of me, I suppose...

Considering the general quality and nature of the content in news these days, with all these imbalanced, biased and shortsighted approaches to subjects, not at all. I'd say it's insightful of you, and that dismissing it in this fashion is the right thing to do, from a mental and spiritual health point of view.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I've been avoiding TV and printed news for about half my lifetime.
My sarcasm tended to summarize most articles as "stupid people being stupid".
Bit harsh of me, I suppose...

Considering the general quality and nature of the content in news these days, with all these imbalanced, biased and shortsighted approaches to subjects, not at all. I'd say it's insightful of you, and that dismissing it in this fashion is the right thing to do, from a mental and spiritual health point of view.

I have also been doing this, so I agree.
I will say more tomorrow, now I have to go to sleep.

Have a good night Pieter, and a good day Cerez!

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

My bad.
I did actually try to think big.
Before.
But you're right.
Have to think smaller...

Well, everyone at some point thinks big (me included); you just have to set your limits so you don't bite more than you can chew.

Those of us who are more empathic and care for others, for everyone, collectively, end up depressed and ill sooner. It's wrong, but that's just how this human society works. So the trick is to train yourself to worry only about those things that truly matter in your life -- yourself and those closest to you who you accept into your life -- and to dismiss everything else as not really part of your reality. You're not responsible for the messed up state of the world. You're responsible only for your own life, health, and actions. We only have one living body, and we only live once -- time is precious if you know how to appreciate life.

And, once again, it's not selfish to care for your body, to care for yourself. Selfishness is having no care for others -- but as an empathic person you already do care, that's inherent, so as long as you feel for others, you can't be selfish. You and only you can choose the sacrifices you make in life -- do not fall for people socially pressuring you into making sacrifices for them, this is morally wrong. This is very important. You can't pressure someone into making sacrifices for you, or expect this of them -- this is their own choice, of their own free will. You own your body, you own your life.

Also, note that, socially, no-one really cares when you get chronically ill and sick -- you are simply excluded socially and written off as useless to society. So if you don't take care of your body and yourself, you end up both paying the price and feeling like a fool. It's harsh, but true.

Take care of your own body and life first, make things better in your immediate environment, and then, if you still have the resources, gradually expand that care outwards, towards a wider circle of others -- but with care that your inner circle is not neglected and doesn't crumble as a result.

You need to be satisfied with your living/life, with your body and spirit well cared for, first and foremost.

Well said, we want to help as many as possible, but we usually and up overburdened and exhausted which leads to the aforementioned effects.

It's better to do selective good, than to do good for many things and then exhaust yourself.
Because, maybe you will do more good in the long run this way. You can't heal others, if you yourself need healing.

 

[Cerez]

Well said, we want to help as many as possible, but we usually and up overburdened and exhausted which leads to the aforementioned effects.

It's better to do selective good, than to do good for many things and then exhaust yourself.
Because, maybe you will do more good in the long run this way. You can't heal others, if you yourself need healing.

Indeed. The main problem is that those of us who are morally responsible feel a strong urge to protect our living world and responsibility for others' imbalanced actions. Our current society, ironically, is built in such a way that it supports those individuals who act emotionally disconnected from nature and from their own kind. This means that if you begin to care for the world, and to try and remedy other people's actions, you will essentially bury yourself in mental illness, because you are battling an overwhelming, unbeatable force -- the burden will be too much to bear for your body.

So those of us who truly care end up paying the price, and not doing much good at all with our care/worry.

In a better society, such care for others would be encouraged and supported by empowering action. But we don't live in that better society. We live in a society where selfishness rules -- where the needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the many.

So, in order to live/survive and to be able to do good, one needs to learn to put an emotional barrier/shield between themself and those who do harm to our living world and to others. You're not responsible for their imbalanced actions. You're only responsible for your own. You can't fix the world, you can't fix imbalanced human society, but you can do your share, based on your current personal capacities, to make your immediate living environment that much better (for everyone, but starting with yourself). One small step at a time.

Start putting your insight/worries into action in your immediate surroundings, starting with the simplest and smallest of things/changes to do in your own life. Make yourself, living in your own skin, feel good. Through that you will gain self-confidence (in the face of the powers that oppose you) and spirit to do more -- by laying a strong foundation while learning about the natural balance.

I hope that makes sense -- I hope I've communicated/explained it well.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I hope that makes sense -

It doesn't.
Not really.
You are also right.

Reality doesn't make sense.

I am terrible at taking care of myself.
I just don't care enough.
I care about others.
And about the world.

That's been my mistake.

I don't want it to be a mistake.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Well it's not a mistake, the mistake is on society exploiting this.

 

[Cerez]

I am terrible at taking care of myself.
I just don't care enough.
I care about others.
And about the world.

That's been my mistake.

It's not a mistake. It's how you've grown up, how you've been raised -- the same as me. Nature is not good or bad, it just is -- it can be good or bad, depending on the circumstances.

In order to protect ourselves and learn to efficiently live in this world, we need to really understand this -- that it's our upbringing, and it isn't always a good thing.

Caring about others and putting them ahead of yourself is a wonderful personality/nature to have, but it can come with a huge cost to you in an environment where that care and self-sacrifice is not supported and abused. So we need to learn when it is wise to care and to self-sacrifice, and when we should put a distance between ourselves and harmful others. We need to learn the natural balance.

In our personal capacities, we are not limitless. Our whole person relies on nourishment from our body and spirit. If no-one takes care of us, and we don't take care of ourselves either -- always giving from ourselves, and never receiving fulfillment from our environment -- it is only logical that we will end up sick (both mentally and physically).

You can't just keep giving, that's an imbalance -- I hope you can see that. You need to receive as well, to take care of your own body, spirit, and needs. There is no reason or need to punish yourself, to punish your body.

You deserve to be happy and satisfied, too -- just like any other living creature. And you are just that: one of nature's living creatures. You're not reponsible for the fate of others and the whole of humankind. Think about it -- really think about it.

I hope this helps.

(I know it's not easy. It will take time to learn and absorb. After all, you've spent many-many years living your life one way, and thinking it was the absolute right way -- misguided by imbalanced human culture and social conventions. But it will grow on you, gradually, and you will find fulfillment and the proper balance, if you only give it time. As living creatures, we are adaptive to challenges/adversities, so long as we nourish ourselves, and take care of our needs.)

 

[Cerez]

Steven Spielberg on his dyslexia, and growing up neurodivergent:

I always wondered why George Lucas (who, ever since hearing him talk in an interview, I always felt was autistic by his thinking and speaking patterns) and Steven Spielberg were such close friends. Now it makes perfect sense. Not only do they come from a similar cultural background, but they are also both neurodivergent/disabled.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Thanks for sharing this, it is really interesting to learn that Steven Spielberg is dyslexic.

As someone diagnosed with it, I can relate to what he says.