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Officers Rep drops

I

Izzie

Landlubber
<!--quoteo(post=155089:date=Jul 24 2006, 07:42 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Jul 24 2006, 07:42 AM) [snapback]155089[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

If an enemy's sword breaks, they're counted as unarmed, but they still fight, and your officers still kill them. This is where the drop in repuation comes from.

Eventually I'm gonna sneak some code in so that your officer's rep can increase or decrease as yours does.

Hook
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<!--quoteo(post=155090:date=Jul 24 2006, 07:43 AM:name=Jason)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Jul 24 2006, 07:43 AM) [snapback]155090[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

I hadn't noticed that before today but I don't think it is just dungeons since I never go there. I think it might be when enemies blades break on ship and since they keep fighting with fists, they are killed unarmed. About a month ago, the death of those people would give you a rep hit but that I think has been fixed.

Another thing that is happening that should be looked at is that disarmed enemies fighting with fists against blades are having a lot of impact on the people they are fighting, knocking a lot of them out. What should happen is they should be killed in short order by the blades without landing a meaningul blow. When Pieter gets back off his holiday, maybe he can take a look at this.

The las thing that is going on is once all the enemies are dead. your crew keeps trying to kill the stunned people even if they are yours.

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Not sure about this guys since:

A: That blade break mod is a perment off in my games. Nobody's blades should be breaking. Unless this off switch isn't working.

B: Since I am leading the charge I normally deal the killing blow and this has never effected my rep at all.

In the game I was talking about, none of those officers have ever been involved with the taking of a ship so I don't know if that effects it as well. Please keep in mind that the stuff I keep harping on isn't meant to poke at modders. But right now, as I see it, far to many things not working would be settings a causal player would use. My concerns are not for myself but that I would hate to see any one group left out in the cold.
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please keep in mind that the stuff I keep harping on isn't meant to poke at modders. But right now, as I see it, far to many things not working would be settings a causal player would use. My concerns are not for myself but that I would hate to see any one group left out in the cold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I honestly believe the "Defaults" in BS.h/IS.h should be on the conservative side. Most new comers to the mod get frustrated with it because EVERY BLOODY THING is on and set to "modders-testing-beefed-up-settings"... which make the game not much fun for casual players like you said.

Casual players arn't going to know how to edit that file, or even edit it in a way that would make the game more fun for them.

All the 'power players' here (what, a teeny handful compared to the vast world of players) know how to do so, and tweak it to their hearts content.

So what I propose is, the DEFAULTS should have many things off, many things set to a casual gamers basic set. All the danged power players can go turn that stuff on if they want too, because THEY KNOW HOW.

I find it appalling all these high n mighty self righteous pompous tweeds here tend to ignore anyone and everyone that doesn't fully understand every aspect of the build mod AND game itself. They just sit on their self-made thrones and say "well turn it off if you dont like it". However I'm seeing a LOT more people not liking things than those who do. And the general public is not going to find "everything on by default" as fun.

At base level, the build mod is still leaps and bounds beyond the game. Even at the most extreme-conservative settings, it is far more enjoyable than the stock game.

If everything is left on, with inflated prices/experience, simple to level events, all the hacks n cheats to make the game easy to "TEST" with... and made as Stable Build 13... I would not bother promoting the mod ANYWHERE. Only leave it sit, hidden, for the happen chance person who came along. Because the onslaught of the 'general public' coming here and complaining about this and that, and not understanding how to adjust the settings... would just be overwhelming.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155148:date=Jul 24 2006, 09:56 AM:name=Den Dee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Den Dee @ Jul 24 2006, 09:56 AM) [snapback]155148[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Just a side note:

Your officers reputation has NO effect on the game whatsoever.
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No, but it has an effect on ME. I don't like seeing bad reps on my officers when I'm a Hero and have been working hard to stay that way. If I were on the other end of the reputation scale and I had an officer who was a Hero, I'd probably end up sending him on a boarding mission with nothing but a dagger. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

And just because it doesn't have an effect on the game *now* doesn't mean it won't somewhere in the future. And have you scoured the entire code base to see if your officers' reputations aren't somehow averaged into your own for some quest purpose, for example?

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=155165:date=Jul 24 2006, 07:27 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Jul 24 2006, 07:27 PM) [snapback]155165[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=155148:date=Jul 24 2006, 09:56 AM:name=Den Dee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Den Dee @ Jul 24 2006, 09:56 AM) [snapback]155148[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Just a side note:

Your officers reputation has NO effect on the game whatsoever.
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No, but it has an effect on ME. I don't like seeing bad reps on my officers when I'm a Hero and have been working hard to stay that way. If I were on the other end of the reputation scale and I had an officer who was a Hero, I'd probably end up sending him on a boarding mission with nothing but a dagger. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

And just because it doesn't have an effect on the game *now* doesn't mean it won't somewhere in the future. And have you scoured the entire code base to see if your officers' reputations aren't somehow averaged into your own for some quest purpose, for example?

Hook
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Funny that. This is the same Hook who was just telling me, along with Hat, how they think the "realism" consideration is nothing and that they only care about "reasoanble" and "playable". Or was it not you Hook, but rather Irrational?

As a realism buff, I understand your sentiment completely. I would suggest your reputation changes get tranmitted to your officers as well. That would be the simplest way of fixing it.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155168:date=Jul 24 2006, 12:50 PM:name=Den Dee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Den Dee @ Jul 24 2006, 12:50 PM) [snapback]155168[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Funny that. This is the same Hook who was just telling me, along with Hat, how they think the "realism" consideration is nothing and that they only care about "reasoanble" and "playable". Or was it not you Hook, but rather Irrational?
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What does this have to do with realism?

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As a realism buff, I understand your sentiment completely. I would suggest your reputation changes get tranmitted to your officers as well. That would be the simplest way of fixing it.
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Which is exactly what I suggested earlier, when talking about sneaking code in to change your officers' reputations along with yours.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=155172:date=Jul 24 2006, 08:30 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Jul 24 2006, 08:30 PM) [snapback]155172[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What does this have to do with realism?
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Umm, okay. Not with "realism". There is a more appropriate, commonly accepted term for it, namely, "suspension of disbelief". That's what we common folk (players) refer to as "realism". The details that make us uncomfortable in the game and make us wake up from the dream we are playing and say to ourselves: "darn, this IS just a game! funny, for a couple of hours I was in a dream, and now this..."

Call it whatever you like, the different terms don't mean we are talking about different issues. As I see it, anyway.
 
Suspension of disbelief is a good term. Another is immersion. These don't have much to do with realism, as used by the majority of people.

But what I was talking about was a problem with game mechanics, pure and simple. While there are ways that your officers' reputations can drop, there are no ways for them to raise. I was intending to remedy that.

Once there was a major controversy surrounding the game The Operational Art of War that generated much more heat than light. You could build your own units, and it was discovered that 100 jeeps could defeat a Tiger tank. This infuriated the vast majority of gamers. After all, how could *any* number of jeeps defeat a tank?

I discussed this issue a few days ago with my best friend. I was a tanker for a while in the Army, and he was a commander of a "rat patrol" jeep in his last enlistment. I knew the limitations of tanks, while he knew the strength of jeeps. We came to the conclusion that, in World War 2, one jeep would have major problems taking out a single unsupported Tiger tank. Two jeeps could do it, but it would be very chancey. Three jeeps could do it without problems. It wouldn't take anywhere near 100.

It was an instance of gamers being a little unclear on the concept.

For the purposes of PotC, any mod that adds to "realism" cannot take away from playability. If it does, only a very few people will use the mod. Personally, I like my games to be challenging. I don't like them to be bogged down in trivia.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=155148:date=Jul 25 2006, 12:56 AM:name=Den Dee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Den Dee @ Jul 25 2006, 12:56 AM) [snapback]155148[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Just a side note:

Your officers reputation has NO effect on the game whatsoever.
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Sorry Dee we do all know that. This whole issue was over something I brought up in another thread over what doesn't matter today becomes a pain later. Something modding into the game is what causes the rep drop. And IF it becomes an issue later due to some other mod it becomes more difficult to fix since we don't always know what was changed to cause it.

My biggest concern was over the fact that even if a mod is off the remnants of the code still effects my game.
Hat does bring up a very good point. The directions in the build file doesn't really explain how to adjust things that well. Lots of numbers there but what do they really mean? If you know code or can mod or even if your used to the builds it isn't that bad but if your a newcomer..WHOOSH is that sucker complicated.

Some of the ways you could tweak mods don't even work any more. And I find subtle things that were put in that there is no record of at all. Where does it say in build notes any place that some ( maybe all ) NPC's have built in cheap armor. But they must since I see " slips on armor " all the time. If that is a mistake..take it out it's confusing. If it really is there why?

If the salary of officers and sign on money is being doubled, and the monthly rate is now going to be 1/2 the sign on money instead of 1/5...I want to be told up front and I want to know how I can adjust it if I don't want that. I don't want to find out during game play and then have to pour over code files trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

If your read the files from the stock game and from earlier builds you quickly see that it really is being coming overly complicated. I don't think anybody thinks the game isn't more fun now then before. I don't think anybody is ungrateful for the long and frustrating hours put into making it more fun. But it does feel like the mods are now being made for the modders and the general public is just along for the ride.
 
I was just looking at the officers salaries... someone bunged that up. My cheapy 1500 hired officers are having salaries of excess of 5000 !!! I cant AFFORD that when starting out, its nuts. Stock game seemed to do fine with salaries, I don't know why someone screwed with it.
 
<!--quoteo(post=155280:date=Jul 26 2006, 02:46 AM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Jul 26 2006, 02:46 AM) [snapback]155280[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I was just looking at the officers salaries... someone bunged that up. My cheapy 1500 hired officers are having salaries of excess of 5000 !!! I cant AFFORD that when starting out, its nuts. Stock game seemed to do fine with salaries, I don't know why someone screwed with it.
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Yeah that's kinda what I was talking about. But keep an eye on it cuz it does seem lop off the last number sometimes. Mine is sorta a mess right now since I was trying to fix it. But it isn't just the monthly rate that threw me it's that the sign up money has jumped so high and it isn't 1/5 of the sign on money it's 1/2. It seems almost a fixed rate per level. The last lv 25 ( I think ) I saw wanted 6k to sign up but the salary listed on her character sheet said 1500 that's 4 times that amount. Now sure you can talk them down sometimes alot but even if you get them down to 2500 that makes the monthly salary 1250 and it goes up between 100-200. Blunt I think that's nuts.

Even at level 6 I couldn't find an officer that was under 12. It's not that I can't really afford the fees, it's that I REFUSE to pay that kinda money. The insult was that this was done with out ever listing it. Even when I asked on the game play section I didn't get any answer at all. It just felt sneaky somehow. Yes I know that there is a switch in the build that turns it back to 100 per level and something else in the internal settings but fussing with those has done nothing to lower the sign up money which in turn effects the monthly salary.

So far this has been the only thing done that has made me downright angry. If your gonna screw me..kiss me first.
 
About losing reputations when killing unarmed enemies on boardings: That has been fixed. They aren't unarmed anymore, but they have their fists instead.

We can add some defalt BuildSettings.h versions into Build 13: One with all complicated mods off and one with them on. Maybe add some other versions as well. Then the player can choose his gameplay style and choose a preset BuildSettings.h file based on that.

Even nicer would be if you could turn on/off the mods in the game itself. However, that requires some major changes and will not be done for Build 13.
 
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