Mod Release Open Sea Mod and Realism Settings

[Pieter Boelen]

That might be one of the "deck" models that add various details to the stock ships.
I think it could even be a part within one of those models which has been deleted via TOOL, but still calls for the texture it used.

That's very possible. Still, if we know which one it is, we can change it so at least it won't give "missing texture" errors anymore.

Saving an old game crashes every time but a new game worked. Starting over again.....

So that IS what it was. Glad to hear a new game does work.
Here's to hoping that latest fix helps with the wind direction changes too. As far as I can tell, the effects of the code should be exactly the same as Beta 2.3+Open Sea Mod.

 

[Armada]

That's very possible. Still, if we know which one it is, we can change it so at least it won't give "missing texture" errors anymore.

Like I said, I think multiple ships have a similar problem. I reckon for Beta 3 it might be worth putting all the Deck models through Maya to a) fix reverse lighting and b) eliminate any missing texture errors.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If anyone would care to do that, I'd most happily include it in Beta 3 of course!
Less error messages are always welcome.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Actually, that did lead me to find something wrong: I had left out MAX_ABALLAST. Perhaps that caused the issue?
Extract attached to your PROGRAM folder and let me know if that helps any.

I'll be looking forward to hearing if this makes any difference in decreasing the overly large wind angle changes.
Or if someone can tell me how to test for this and what to look for, I could give it a shot myself.

The time actually being faster than before sounds very strange though.
Time DOES run three times faster with the Open Sea Mod from what I understand, but it already was like that in Beta 2.3 as well.
I thought perhaps the TIMESCALAR_SEA was initialized at game load/start or something, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I've been doing other things today and barely got to level 3 so don't have much input.
I have not noticed any change in wind direction changes, but have done hardly any sailing.
The time is running faster in the Open Sea mod and I would bet it is running faster in the standard game as well. I could live with it as its intended purpose in OS is to make the longest trade missions more of a challenge, so this just cuts down on the safety margin. But its effect in battles is very bad as any attempt at strategy and tactics is defeated by the constant wind changes. All one can do now is charge in guns blazing and then hope to get away quickly. "One pass and haul ass."

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I got some quality sailing time in and either I hit a long stretch of good wind or it is working much much better than before. More testing needed.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The time is running faster in the Open Sea mod and I would bet it is running faster in the standard game as well.

It is coded to be three times faster in the Open Sea Mod; that shouldn't occur if that mod is off though.

I got some quality sailing time in and either I hit a long stretch of good wind or it is working much much better than before. More testing needed.

I'm hoping that those wind changes were unrelated to the time progressing faster and were related to the missing ballast value.
If that is the case, it really should be fixed now. Here's to hoping....

 

[Skyworm]

Cheers,

I still can't say if time now runs faster than before, but I absolutely support the idea of a frequently changing wind being bad for tactical combat.

With sailing vessels, direction of wind has a big impact on the outcome of a battle. Or it least, it shall have. I am actually reading the Aubrey-Maturin series of Patrick O'Brian, and there are a lot of situations described,where Aubrey puts the wind direction in his calculation for an entire battle strategy, that lasts for several hours. And any such thoughts are completely nonsense with a wind drastically changing that fast.
In our actual game, wind will change once or even twice before a single maneuver based on wind direction is done, and this quick changing takes the wind completely out of effect, at least as a tactical option. It is just a big random factor you can't predict and count of. There is, for example, no sense in "tacking to get an upwind position related to your opponent", when wind will change 3 times before your tacking would probably have the desired effect.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

...I absolutely support the idea of a frequently changing wind being bad for tactical combat.

You don't have to convince me; I'm already a fan.

If I understand correctly, those overly large wind changes did NOT occur in Beta 2.3+Open Sea Mod, right? So them happening is a bug and not intentional on anyone's part.
I did indeed make an error with that angle ballast value, which is certainly related to wind angle changes and would explain why this happens now and not before.
Hylie's experiences so far with my fix for that suggest that it might behave properly now again. Did you try that fix yet?

 

[Skyworm]

I did not try the fix yet ... sorry. And I am not sure if that has been different at 2.3. I am confused by having played to much 2.3 2.4 2.5 recently so I'm completely unable to see any difference.
As I understand, the fix will need another new game start ... and there are some thing I want to try with the actual install. *sigh*

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I did not try the fix yet ... sorry. And I am not sure if that has been different at 2.3.

If I understand correctly, it did change. Oh well, if you can't see the difference, you can hardly test on it.

As I understand, the fix will need another new game start ...

Apparently, yes it does. I had hoped it wouldn't, even thought it would be fine, but what do I know?

and there are some thing I want to try with the actual install. *sigh*

There I things *I* want to do with *my* install, namely: RELEASE IT AT LAST!
And then we can go back to no new versions for a while, because I'll need time to get that Beta 3 code somewhat workable first.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, it now really does do the same as before. So I think I'll go ahead and prepare the actual Beta 2.5 installer now.
I want to be done with this! And I think people will appreciate some time to actually play again too.

 

[Skyworm]

Just double checked it just in case ... I actually don't use your last zip according open seas.

And I want to finish at least this last voyage now without new starting, because there is a treasure waiting for me. And I want to have another look on that quest either.
Thus, I can still prove wind actually can change in huge steps at once. It just sprang from W to NNW in one turn, which is about 70-80°. Such steps are too big I think.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thus, I can still prove wind actually can change in huge steps at once. It just sprang from W to NNW in one turn, which is about 70-80°. Such steps are too big I think.

Too big for sure! But that is without the fix, right?

This line of code is unchanged by the Open Sea Mod, so has remained a #define:

#define MAX_ANGLECHANGE                    1.0        // FLOAT - ^^DITTO for wind angle

However, I get the impression that 1.0 is NOT degrees, but RADIANS. So that would equal 57.2957795 degrees maximum change in 1 hour.
Bit much perhaps? But if that IS indeed the reason, the wind would be potentially changing that much with or without Open Sea Mod ever since the Weather Mod was introduced.
So that would suggest this issue is a lot more long-standing than I had been led to believe.

How much angle WOULD we consider reasonable change in an hour?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

However, I get the impression that 1.0 is NOT degrees, but RADIANS. So that would equal 57.2957795 degrees maximum change in 1 hour.

Yep, that's exactly what it is. Just tested this myself by not using a random value between 0 and the maximum angle change, but FORCING the maximum angle change EVERY time.
This resulted in just about a 55 or so angle change in the wind, so that fits with the one radian thing.
Just let me know a more reasonable hourly change value and this will be easily reduced.

Would this need to be different in Open Sea Mode or can we keep the same value always in use?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Checking through the code further, I do think reducing that ABallast value properly like my fix does is definitely going to help.
A 57 degree angle change in one hour would still be possible, but much less likely.
I've got no clue how you managed an 80 degree change though; that should NEVER be happening.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The maximum hourly change is NOT what I have been talking about. It is the short period of time between changes.

I have no idea if time is moving the same or faster in the standard game as I have not played the standard game in 1 1/2 years.
Time moves faster in the Open Sea mod now than it used to. This is a bad thing. The futility of tacking in general and during battles has been mentioned. This was not an issue a few months ago.

That said I now feel that the latest change to the wind makes it overall not actively evil like before, but more of an indifferent force of nature and I am content with that.
While I have not gotten into any sea battles I have made two in and out passages through the Devils Throat at Jamaica safely due to the more predictable winds.
Again, the issue is not the amount of wind change but the way it happens so often due to hours being shorter. When a simple tack can take forty minutes............

I understand your desire to speed up this process and move on to the next phase of the project. If this gets fixed great! If not, well it's not a game breaker, just another irritant.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The maximum hourly change is NOT what I have been talking about. It is the short period of time between changes

Please try this: Open PROGRAM\NK.c and find:

void InitOpenSeaMod()
{
    ref PChar = GetMainCharacter();
    if(iRealismMode>1 || OPEN_SEA_MOD)
    {
        DIRECTENCOUNTERCHANCE =                                22;        // chance in percent that an encounter fleet appears every hour
        DIRECTENCOUNTERDISTANCE =                            2250;    // distance from player at which random ships appear
        ISLANDSWITCHDISTANCE =                                30000.0;// for islandcell mode only: distance from island at which transfer to neighbour island starts
        ENCOUNTERBREAK =                                    6.0;    // LDH - Changed to float, number is hours per encounter, directsail is called every 5 minutes occasionally
        // so you can let the clock run faster (by increasing TIMESCALAR_SEA below), meaning longer voyagetimes, without getting too many encounters.
 
        TIMESCALAR_SEA =                                    15;        // INT - how many seconds of gametime one second of realtime is at sea

Change that last value to "5", which is the value it has when the Open Sea Mod is OFF.
This really does NOT require a new game to be started. See if that makes any difference.

I understand your desire to speed up this process and move on to the next phase of the project. If this gets fixed great! If not, well it's not a game breaker, just another irritant.

It is also that I get the impression that people might want to be able to play for a while without having to start a new game because I'm posting too many updates these days.
I'd like to be able to release Beta 2.5 as playable as it can be though, because I can assure you that the initial release of Beta 3 will be troublesome.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Done. That seems like a large change, but it had to be a large change to be so noticeable.

 

[Skyworm]

Cheers,

Too big for sure! But that is without the fix, right?

Exactly.
I wanted to get that treasure and devide plunder before starting new ... and I can report both worked fine.

This line of code is unchanged by the Open Sea Mod, so has remained a #define:

#define MAX_ANGLECHANGE                    1.0        // FLOAT - ^^DITTO for wind angle

However, I get the impression that 1.0 is NOT degrees, but RADIANS. So that would equal 57.2957795 degrees maximum change in 1 hour.
Bit much perhaps? But if that IS indeed the reason, the wind would be potentially changing that much with or without Open Sea Mod ever since the Weather Mod was introduced.
So that would suggest this issue is a lot more long-standing than I had been led to believe.

How much angle WOULD we consider reasonable change in an hour?

To be honest, I'd be happy with the wind not changing any hour, but being constant for several hours. But that would be a big change ...

Unfortunately I can't say anything about the time frame Hylie speaks about. I can't say if that's a difference with or without open seas, but I am very sure this has changed once or twice during that whole 2.4-2.5 progress.

Basically, I would love it if more time passes between one wind change and the other. So lengthening an game hour might work. At the moment, tacking is very difficult because you spend about half an game hour adjusting the new course, than sail a few 100 yards in that new direction, and have to adjust course again because wind changes.

Just installed your open seas zip. Will look into that soon.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Done. That seems like a large change, but it had to be a large change to be so noticeable.

True. I think Jeff probably did that to compensate for voyages otherwise REALLY taking forever.

To be honest, I'd be happy with the wind not changing any hour, but being constant for several hours. But that would be a big change ...

Keeping the changes every hour, but making sure they are only small changes would be easier than not having any changes at all for several hours.
The size of the changes can be easily changed by just editing some values. Otherwise I'd have to mess around with the weather code, which I'd prefer not to due to my unfamiliarity with it.
And it looks fairly complex too.