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Plans for Continental Frigate "Confederacy"

Bava

Bava

Wannabe Shipwright
3D Artist
QC Advisor
Storm Modeller
Pretty interesting ship, one of the last galley-frigates (if not the last).

Plan up for grabs here:

<a href="http://passaro.stage.thomasnet-navigator.com/Asset/CONFEDERACYSHEETONE5-13.pdf" target="_blank">http://passaro.stage.thomasnet-navigator.c...HEETONE5-13.pdf</a>

And the thread on modelshipworld:

<a href="http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6619&start=190" target="_blank">http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic...9&start=190</a>

Pic of a model:

<a href="http://www.onacrew.com/ONARonRobertNewImage2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.onacrew.com/ONARonRobertNewImage2.jpg</a>


Regards,
bava <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Gunports and... <i>row</i>ports? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
Okay, this ship was a bit "unconventional", but some of our american members might want to give her a try <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
A non-Roman-galley kind of ship propelled by oars just looks stupid in my opinion.
It looked stupid in Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and it looked stupid in The Sea Hawk too.
Oh well... it was the best alternative to a diesel engine that they had available, I suppose. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
Well, that's essence of confederacy - they had slaves to "power" that wreckage. I think that animation of padding with oars wouldn't be made in engine. Since I really suspect that slaves indeed "propelled" that vessel, I'd also oppose putting her into modpack.

pirate_kk
 
Do you think it would be possible at all to simulate human-propelled movement with the PotC engine?
Even if we don't use it for slave-propelled ships, it could still be applied to rowboats and dinghys. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
I'm not sure wether it's possible or not. But since we don't know how to make proper animations of the characters (which should be easier task) I suspect we won't be able to achieve that without access to game's engine.

pirate_kk
 
Pah; I don't care about the animation. All I'm interested in is whether it'd be possible at all to have a ship move in the game independent of the wind.
We might even be able to apply that to steam-powered ships in the last time period, if somebody ever happens to make one of those.
 
Maybe it would be possible with some proper configuration of ship's parameters.

pirate_kk
 
Maybe set "ClosestPoint" to 0 or something like that to remove the wind direction effect?
But how to prevent the ship's speed from being dependent on wind speed?
 
I think that apart from <i>ClosestPoint</i> we could also try to tweak attributes such as <i>InertiaAccelerationX</i>, <i>InertiaAccelerationY</i>, <i>InertiaAccelerationZ </i>and <i>InertiaBrakingX</i>, <i>InertiaBrakingY</i>, <i>InertiaBrakingZ</i>. Maybe we could get some desired effects from those.

pirate_kk
 
Does anyone have any idea what each of those values are and what they're used for exactly? Because I don't. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
I'm assuming it has to do with the acceleration of the ship, so you might get a quickly or slowly accelerating ship based on those values.
Still, the final speed would be unrelated to the acceleration, right?
 
I'm affraid that's only what's possible. The speed dependence is hardcoded and we are unable to change this. I only hope that in some extent we could gain an approximation of the behaviour of the "sails-less" ship with parameters we have access to.

The speed of every ship in the 3D sailing mode is controled by parameter <i>refCharacter.Ship.Speed.z</i> but I'm not sure if that's read-only (so one could only check the current speed in code) or change of its value could have some impact on behaviour. It should be checked, but I'm inclined toward option that it's read-only. In PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c this attribute is initialized, but only during ship login to sea.

pirate_kk
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, that's essence of confederacy - they had slaves to "power" that wreckage. I think that animation of padding with oars wouldn't be made in engine. Since I really suspect that slaves indeed "propelled" that vessel, I'd also oppose putting her into modpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


There seems to be a misunderstanding, "Confereracy" had masts and sails like any other frigate. The oars were used to operate in coastal areas and rivers. And afaik the continental navy based the recruitement on volunteers, so it were normal sailors who had to row the ship.
 
<!--quoteo(post=320020:date=May 15 2009, 12:21 PM:name=Bava)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bava @ May 15 2009, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320020"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And afaik the continental navy based the recruitement on volunteers, so it were normal sailors who had to row the ship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hope. So one thing is cleared and my opposition weakened.

pirate_kk
 
<!--quoteo(post=320018:date=May 15 2009, 12:16 PM:name=pirate_kk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pirate_kk @ May 15 2009, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The speed of every ship in the 3D sailing mode is controled by parameter <i>refCharacter.Ship.Speed.z</i> but I'm not sure if that's read-only (so one could only check the current speed in code) or change of its value could have some impact on behaviour. It should be checked, but I'm inclined toward option that it's read-only. In PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c this attribute is initialized, but only during ship login to sea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You certainly CAN change the speed setting; remember when a simple virtual sailor did that while in the port scene?
All ships set sail then. Of course it appears that causes no end of error messages now, but it used to work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
Not sure what happens if you try setting it while in 3D sailing mode though; I should try that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
She has quite lovely lines! I've seen a draft before, but it was small and focused more on her rig than her hull... but this is a nice big draft.

I'd love to build her... but I don't know if I would be able to finish her before June 26th (I leave for college) and I doubt I'll be able to work on her once I'm at VMI.

Let me mull on this for another few days... if it looks like I'll have a lot of time to kill between now and the 26th, then I'll try to build her. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

As for her sweeps... I can see why they came in handy... but I doubt we could animate them... so I say we just build her as an American frigate to compliment the <i>Constitution</i>. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> (Hopefully my <i>Enterprise</i> will be added to the ranks too!)
 
Hello,

Is this the Continental Frigate in the list of ships? I have been trying to figure out how to get a hold of her.

To answer some of the questions. The small ports are for sweeps. From what I remember from reading Chapman's "Search for Speed under Sail", they were fairly common on British and American warships up to around 24 guns. The sweeps were used in calm conditions or for close maneuvering in bays and rivers. Larger ships carried more boats, those ships would deploy their boats and have the crew try to tow the ship. Problem you had to change boat crews often. With sweeps you could put a lot more manpower on the oars. At best the ships could do about 2 knots with sweeps.

The Confederacy was built in Charleston, South Carolina and it probably one of the largest warships to be designed with sweep ports. The sweeps were manned by regular sailors. The Continental navy did not rely upon slaves to crew its ships.

Sorry for the tardy response.
Greg.
 
bumpkin said:
The Confederacy was built in Charleston, South Carolina and it probably one of the largest warships to be designed with sweep ports. The sweeps were manned by regular sailors. The Continental navy did not rely upon slaves to crew its ships.
Click to expand...

These ships were more common than folks think about. She would have likely been used to protect American shipping in the Med. The US Navy's first decently sized fleet actions of any account were against the Barbary pirates.

For over a hundred years before the Confederacy was built, British Naval vessels (ships as large as 5th and even 4th raters) were built pierced for oars/sweeps. These were ships specifically built for patrolling the Med.

Heck, look at Kidd's own Adventure Galley. She was a good sized square rigged trading ship built in London in 1695 and destined for trading between England and the Med. She was estimated to make 3 knots with oars only. http://www.scribd.com/doc/21189265/Osprey-New-Vanguard-070-The-Pirate-Ship-1660-1730 See Page 27 Illustration C and page 42.

These ships were fairly common. But... much less so in the Carribean.

MK
 
Sorry my bad she was built in Norwich, Connecticut and launched Nov 7 1778. Originally she was laid out as 74 but built as a 36.

modernknight1 said:
These ships were more common than folks think about. She would have likely been used to protect American shipping in the Med. The US Navy's first decently sized fleet actions of any account were against the Barbary pirates.
Click to expand...

Likely so had she survived the Revolutionary War. Like a lot of Colonial Navy ships, she was built with unseasoned timbers and swam for only 4 years. She was captured by HMS Roebuck(44) and HMS Orpheus(32) in April 1781. Sailing in company with two smaller frigates Deane & Saratoga and a convoy of captured ships, she turned to investigate a large ship. Which turned out to be the HMS Roebuck(44). By the time a second British frigate appeared the convoy and the other frigates had gone. Leaving the undermanned Confederacy(36) outgunned. She surrendered with out firing a shot at her captors. She was taken into British Navy at New York and rated a 40 gun frigate. She was sent to England in July of 1781 to be raised to a 64. But upon further inspection in December she was deemed too unfit for service. (From "Ships of the American Revolution and their Models" by Harold M Hahn.)
 
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