• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Pre Build 13 Modpack

<!--quoteo(post=171372:date=Nov 14 2006, 08:24 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 14 2006, 08:24 AM) [snapback]171372[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
To CCC: I wanted to try putting these new mods in, because I think they would enhance the gameplay quite a bit. If they are found to not be working, we can take them out again quickly enough. But Hook has been playing with that code for a long time and IncredibleHat is now testing it as well, so I think it should work properly. And if it doesn't, we should be able to find out soon enough now that everyone is testing sea battles. Right?
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Oh, well, I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, so go ahead. It's only that I have heard "only this small addition.. can't do any harm.." too often. Remember that ONE YEAR ago we agreed that we would add nothing anymore but fixes and completions for unfinished mods? *I* have adhered to that agreement, which makes me feel sort of a fool by now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=171329:date=Nov 14 2006, 01:21 AM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 14 2006, 01:21 AM) [snapback]171329[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Its the software world <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
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Not MY world, I'm afraid. I work at an airport, where everything is doubletripleextrachecked before departure, and I have to enforce that. Can't get that attitude out of my brain anymore <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
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Speaking of last minute additions, CCC there are a few new toggles for BS.h and we fixed a hidieous error with a setting in IS.h. However, wether these fixes are put into the build or not, is up to pieter.
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I have just put both revised files onto the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/view.php?id=60" target="_blank">bugtracker</a>:
But they are still based on Beta7. I think you or Pieter should put the last second changes in, will be easier for you than for me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
It seems to me that a lot of new stuff has been added in the last year. This isn't something that just happened this week.

I've been playing the code Pieter added for the last 2 months, 12 hours a day on average for most of that time. Originally I was a bit worried about problems, bit I havent encountered any. It's as solid as I can get it.

But if it causes problems, most of it has toggles to turn it off, and the rest can be easily reverted to the older version. Let people play with it for a week, then see what they think.

Except for a couple of functions like the onscreen clock display, most of that code isn't new stuff, but fixes for problems that existed in the old code. Sort of like my total rewrite of the boarding code. None of this will be as broken as the "black bar" ship icon problem that was sent out with build 12.1, which annoyed me to no end and caused me to download build 13.

Hook
 
Hook, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> that YOU wrote those changes is actually soothing my overwrought nerves <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Oh good. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Thanks CCC, that's a wonderful tribute.

Yes, all the items marked with the red asterisk are changes I made back in September. At that time I asked Pieter to hold off on publishing them because I couldn't be sure they were all working correctly and wouldn't cause problems. But after many many hours of testing, I'm now satisfied.

Load up with chainshot and go pick a fight. Start far enough away so the chainshot can aim at the top of the enemy sails, and fire on the uproll. Watch the target ship through your spyglass, and see what the chainshot is doing. It's fun!

Ball and grape will also aim higher than the old version. Instead of half your balls firing short and hitting the water, you should now get more effect on the hull.

If you are more than 350 yards from an enemy, firing ball will aim higher than normal, in hopes of hitting sails or masts. It helps to use battle sail in this case.

Once you've knocked the enemy sails down to about 30%, he can only turn half as fast as normal. This makes battling a corvette a lot easier. And if you should entirely dismast a ship, he won't be able to turn at all. It annoyed me that a dismasted corvette could easily turn fast enough to keep me in his firing arcs. This is what finally prompted me to give in to Ron Losey's demands to limit turning ability depending on sail damage. If you don't like the effect, blame him. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Reload times are no longer calculated based on min crew and max crew settings for a ship. They're calculated by the number and size of the undestroyed cannons on the ship. It's possible that some ships will be undercrewed and have slower reload times even if they have max crew if you use the optional setting to reduce the cannon crew by the number of crewmen needed to sail the ship.

Any questions or problems, feel free to ask.

Hook
 
Okay guys, I must say. This latest beta/RC is impressive. Played for about 10 hours solid yesterday, not one crash. EVER.

WELL DONE!!!!

I'd say build 13 is all but in the bag, folks!

Cap'n Drow
 
Hook - I've been playtesting the Beta 8 extensively over the past 2 days, and I must say I'm LOVING the sea battle, I'm taking advantage of the newly-useful chain shot, your code totally puts the tactics back into sailing. Damn, that's fine work!!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

Thanks much for improving the build!


<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

H.M.M.
 
Hey, thanks! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

The bad thing is, this is how it *should* have worked before. The problem was that the ship init code didn't set up the aim points properly in most cases. I originally tried to fix that, and finally gave up and did a generic aim based on the target ship's box size.

The guns will aim at three levels randomly: high, medium or low. Your ship's roll is taken into account, so if you fire on the uproll you can hit higher on the mast. It also checks the range to the target ship, and will aim lower if you're closer because the guns cannot be elevated high enough to hit the upper sails. Worse case the chainshot will hit the hull if it can't aim high enough to hit sails.

It's amusing to note that the enemy will sometimes aim high enough to hit your sails, and when they do, you hear various ripping sounds when the shot passes through your sails.

Akella implemented shot hitting the sails very well. Often you hit a sail and the sail will jerk slightly from the impact. I'm sure this is just an artifact of adding a hole to the sail, but it's still pretty cool. And holes appear where the shot actually hits. If there's already a hole where your shot hits, the shot passes through harmlessly without doing additional damage. I am impressed.

Hook
 
There's also some pretty good music that is *supposed* to play during boardings (after the fighting stops) that's not completely implemented. I fixed it for my game, but it has a couple of problems so I'll hold off on sending the fixes out until I've worked it out.

Akella probably got rushed at the last moment by the publisher (sort of like how we're getting rushed now) and didn't get everything finished that they wanted to.

Hook
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Mates,

Just a question! why you take out buildingset from the game, it's was quite good.
I hope will see buildingset in the next beta release again.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> bye,bye,
giuliootto
 
<!--quoteo(post=171764:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:59 PM:name=giuliootto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(giuliootto @ Nov 15 2006, 10:59 PM) [snapback]171764[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Mates,

Just a question! why you take out buildingset from the game, it's was quite good.
I hope will see buildingset in the next beta release again.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> bye,bye,
giuliootto
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hi giuliootto <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

CCC(the mod creator) asked for it to be downgraded in the build - it was having a few compatability issues and he felt it better to let the finished build13 not get anymore delayed. It is just a tempory set back(i hope!) and hopefuly we'll get an even better version in some of the updates after build13 has been released.
 
We'll work on fixing the BuildingSet for Build 14. That's one of the top priorities as far as I'm concerned. It can easily be re-enabled in Build 13 as well; it's just disabled with a couple of lines outcommented in Enc_Officer_dialog.c
 
Don't worry, I have already an idea how to make a selfcontained "settlement building set" that will not interact with any other programfile exept cccfunctions. That should solve the... err... compatability issues (well put, BB, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />)
 
Just got the last release working yesterday. (Had to re-install everything - still don't know why. Works now, anyway.)

Sea battle code is still using old damage numbers. Round ball does virtually nothing to crew, and ships sink with annoying regularity, even with most hands still operational. Not very historical. I'll mess with that on my own copy, and pass along suggestions - but I would say round ball needs at least half the crew damage of grapeshot, and all types of shot need the hull damage reduced (by at least half).

Otherwise, sea battles seem operational now. Haven't had time to test them like I want - startup characters aren't too battle-worthy.

Got a couple of crashes and freezes, but I couldn't make them repeat enough to report anything. Might be more the fault of my highly unreliable system than the game/mod.

One bug where the smuggler on Cuba tells you to meet him at "error". Beach 1 still works - it's just a text bug.

I'll see what else I can find over the next couple of days.
Ron
 
<!--quoteo(post=171977:date=Nov 16 2006, 04:31 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Nov 16 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]171977[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Otherwise, sea battles seem operational now. Haven't had time to test them like I want - startup characters aren't too battle-worthy.
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i think, if you open \PROGRAM\Buildsettings.h and go for one of the first lines, youll find
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#define START_LEVEL 1 <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(i removed the comments, to make it more readable.
in fact the quoted options here are the first two options in buildsettings.h you can change)

set the first number to 1, so you can pick your skills (in character screen)
and the second number.... to.... well... something around 20.

and there ya go, average joe schmoe starting pirate is da fear of da seven seas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />

happy testing! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=171977:date=Nov 16 2006, 06:31 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Nov 16 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]171977[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Round ball does virtually nothing to crew, and ships sink with annoying regularity, even with most hands still operational.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you'd better post your BuildSettings.h and InternalSettings.h files. You can't possibly be playing the game with the same settings I am and still be getting the results you're describing.

If you're taking a 74 up against a lugger, the 74 is going to sink the lugger quickly. Other than situations like that I've found it almost impossible to sink a ship.

Roundshot does more damage to crew than it does to hull. And it always has.

I suspect you're playing in arcade mode, set from the options screen, which is separate from the settings in the BS.h and IS.h files.

Hook
 
Just reloaded everything to get the latest version working. My settings, at this instant, are what came with the mod. Certainly not "arcade" - that was the first thing I set before starting the game.

The round ball doing, what was it, 12 hull damage and 0.75 crew? The 12 hull damage seems a little extreme, from history - ships still sink without being utterly pounded into the surf first. The 0.75 crew damage means you can sink a ship while a substantial number of the crew are still good. Both seem not to fit the history. Ships should be wrecked (crew pulverized, rigging and guns destroyed), not sunk except under the most extreme conditions (i.e. uncontrolled fire), according to every historical account.

I plan to test the playability with hull damage on everything about half of its current settings, and round ball crew damage set up to about half what grapeshot does, and see if I can't get it to match historical records of sea battles. I'll get back with you on how it comes out.

Still, the new firing patterns, rigging effects on maneuverability, and such are great. The sea combat is at least back in the realm of playable, with some credit to reality, history, and intelligent tactics. Good show.
 
Those two numbers, 12 and 0.75, are not on the same scale. Ball does not do 16 times the damage to the hull as it does to the crew. In the game, those numbers (12 and 0.75) will cause the crew to dwindle at a slightly faster rate than the hull.

Fight a few battles before you change the numbers. If the original numbers are causing ships to sink while still having 3/4 of their crew left, I want to see a saved game. Get a pirate mission from the governor, fight the pirate for a while, but do not sink him. Sail back to port, and save the game on the dock. I'll load it up and have a look. But *ONLY* with the numbers that came with the game. I'm not interested in what happens if you change the numbers.

Copies of the compile.log, the system.log and the error.log (if there is one) would also be useful. Zip these up with your saved game and copies of your BS.h and IS.h files and upload them to the FTP site. An after action report of what you did during the battle would be useful.

I want to get to the bottom of this one.

Hook
 
I spent the afternoon messing with this. (Have to teach a class this evening, so I won't get back to it for a bit.) Hull damage on all shot types balances pretty well at about half the default numbers, for all shot types. This allows small to medium ships to take several volleys before they just up and sink like blowing glass bottles out of the river.

I also increased crew damage slightly on round ball, and decreased it slightly on chain, for examination purposes. (Chain shot should be too light to really get good fragmentation effects when/if passing through a hull. Round shot should create a hail of shrapnel.) That seems to balance damage to guns and damage to crew at a more believable pattern - number of guns disabled seemed to correspond to at least a few casualties among the gun crews.

I know that the numbers do not correspond to each other. I'm just looking at the effect. The feel I get is that "round ball" should not equal "torpedo". Even if it tears them to shreds, class 4 ships should be able to take a couple of broadsides from a lighter frigate (44 gun, 18 pound long gun, I think was my test ship) before they just up and sink. 20 hits of 18-pound round shot should not just blow a 20-gun brig out of the water.

History seemed to think that crew, guns and rigging should suffer WAY more than the chances of actually sinking anything larger than a lifeboat. (That's airplanes that just go down in flames, not sailing ships.) I think it plays better too.

Try it. If you don't like the change, feel free to ignore me. However, I'm serious. It helps.

Ron
 
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