Solved Rebalancing the Fighting System

[KillPhil]

yeah okay I know that the raiders should kill me, they did it for like 20 times and then I had some lucky hits and so on.. I only said that the higher blocking values were a big help, and I think this counts not only for low levels, cause the enemies level up, too

And on the other side: I was on the way to Speighstown for the Mainquest, you know, the quest where you have to get the officer drunk. It was very very very hard to fight against these two townguards, which should be, in my opinion, way easier, because its just frustrating if you die like 10 times in the first quest.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Try it yourself, but go up a few levels. The long guns work at first but stop working after a while. Period.

Sounds like we've got another mystery on our hands.

According to that chart the grapeshot pistol does 50/70 min/max damage. In game it is 57/120. That makes it the most potent fire arm in POTC.

That is probably the Weaponsmod pitching in. The values I posted would be for Average quality.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds like we've got another mystery on our hands.

Just cheated myself up to full skills and level 40 and went on a bit of a killing spree with a musket and a musketoon. Was all working fine. They do use up ammunition very quickly though.
And with the musketoon using grapeshot, shouldn't that one be doing multidmg too?

 

[Skyworm]

Cheers,

sorry for lookin into this that late, but I have been terribly busy during the last two days

I agree with Hylie that there is a big jump from Adventurer to Swashbuckler. For that reason, I'm back to Adventurer now. I also agree that especially on higher levels of difficulty, one gets killed too quickly, thus sort of a bonus might help. I remember someone said he uses a bonus in HP just for that purpose.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Anyone seen this working lately?

As far as I can tell, that hasn't been working since at least some time 2008 in Build 14 Alpha 8, possibly longer.
Extract attached to PROGRAM\Loc_ai to reinstate. Let me know if you notice any weird effects with it.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Any way you try to bias the stats the fact is that the grapeshot pistol is the most powerful firearm in POTC. And it the most powerful against all in your party at the same time. Two opponents with the grapeshot pistol can wipe out your whole party without using their swords.
The musket and musketoon have never worked for me. Don't use them.

Are you talking about the blue bar crossing the box as you are reloading? It used to work but I do not remember when it stopped working. A year ago?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Any way you try to bias the stats the fact is that the grapeshot pistol is the most powerful firearm in POTC. And it the most powerful against all in your party at the same time. Two opponents with the grapeshot pistol can wipe out your whole party without using their swords.

I understand. We'll have to tone that down quite substantially, I think. Especially since they ARE fairly common, aren't they?

Are you talking about the blue bar crossing the box as you are reloading? It used to work but I do not remember when it stopped working. A year ago?

It stopped working a fair bit longer ago than that. As I said, it wasn't working either in Build 14 Alpha 8, which we released in 2008. Last version I know that did work was Build 13 Final in 2007.
That screenshot was made in my Build 14 Beta 2.5 game install though. Because I fixed it. Just need to test it a bit.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Difficulty Effects

CHANCE at bandits in towns:

bprob *= 0.5 + makefloat(GetDifficulty())/8.0;

Enemy boarding HP:

    if (GetDifficulty() < 4 && boarding_erank > 2*sti(mchr.rank))    // LDH 06Sep06 put a limit on this thing to prevent insanely high enemy ranks
    {
        int new_boarding_erank = sti(mchr.rank) * 2;
        SDLogIt("boarding_erank changed from " + boarding_erank + " to " + new_boarding_erank);
        boarding_erank = new_boarding_erank;
    }

This one suggests that at Swashbuckler level, that limiting does NOT work anymore and you COULD have insanely strong enemies.

Morale effect during boarding:

    if (!IsTown) {
        boarding_enemy_hp += boarding_enemy_hp * ((stf(echr.ship.crew.morale) - stf(mchr.ship.crew.morale))/200.0); // LDH - change from absolute morale diff to percentage diff, 0.5 to 1.5 - 19Jan09
        boarding_enemy_hp = boarding_enemy_hp * (1.0 + (GetDifficulty()-1.0)/5.0));    // 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6
    } else {
        boarding_enemy_hp = boarding_enemy_hp + ((makefloat(GetTownCrewMorale(echr.town)) - stf(mchr.ship.crew.morale))/4.0);    // fix parenthesis as above
        boarding_enemy_hp = boarding_enemy_hp * (1.0 + (GetDifficulty()-1.0)/5.0));    // 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6
    }

Also less chance at surrender:

SurrenderChance -= (GetDifficulty() - 3.0) * 0.02;    // d1 +.04, d2 +.02 d3 0.0 d4 -.02

Rank modifiers for any generated characters. But also:

if(GetDifficulty() < 4 && Npchar.quest.officertype != OFFIC_TYPE_CAPPIRATE && nRank > makeint(pow((cShipClass),1.5)*2.5)) nRank = makeint(pow((cShipClass),1.5)*2.5);

That would be another jump at the Swashbuckler difficulty.

Weapon selection code has a linear effect from difficulty. As does the actual effect of all weapons.
Chance of detection a false flag. Rank of coastal ships. HP increase per level. Speed of experience gain.
Effect of cannons at sea. Number of troops stationed in towns. All linear.

Long story short:
There are two instances where a potential big jump IS coded in for Swashbuckler, namely in the rank of characters and the HP of enemy boarders.
Does that sound like a sensible effect? We could have those safeguards always in place, which should much reduce the jump between Adventurer and Swashbuckler.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

It is usually the best policy to have the hardest level be really hard in order to satisfy the best gamers, so perhaps Swashbuckler should be left alone. It is good to know where and how it is different.
I would be more interested in separating Journeyman and Adventurer a bit more. To me there is not much difference between them, but I have not jumped back and forth between them in 2 years.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

According to that chart the grapeshot pistol does 50/70 min/max damage. In game it is 57/120. That makes it the most potent fire arm in POTC.

Those values match up exactly with the weaponsmod formula:

                    Scalar            Grapeshot Pistol   
                MinDmg    MaxDmg        MinDmg    MaxDmg
Badly worn        0.9        1.35        45        94.5
Worn            0.95    1.425        47.5    99.75
Average            1        1.5            50        105
Good            1.05    1.575        52.5    110.25
Fine            1.1        1.65        55        115.5
Excellent        1.15    1.725        57.5    120.75

In addition to that, the Grapeshot Pistol gets "multidamage". So that makes it indeed overpowered.

Any chance you could describe to me just about how the progression of the weapons should be?
It'll be easy enough to chance the values; just need to know what to change it to.

It is usually the best policy to have the hardest level be really hard in order to satisfy the best gamers, so perhaps Swashbuckler should be left alone. It is good to know where and how it is different.
I would be more interested in separating Journeyman and Adventurer a bit more. To me there is not much difference between them, but I have not jumped back and forth between them in 2 years.

The effects from Apprentice>Journeyman>Adventurer are linear.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Mwuhahaha! I set the reload time of the shotgun to 1 second. Now you can just keep on shooting until you're out of ammo.
Clint Eastwood now also does a brilliant job at "shooting like crazy".

I do have to wonder why he is so CRAZY low on HP though. He should be uber-strong.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm no expert on these things but can get things started.

Grapeshot guns: pistol, blunderbuss, musketoon, shotgun.
Pistols: short pistol, long pistol, pirate pistol, scrapper pistol.
Pistol sets: short pistol set, medium pistol set, large pistol set.
Long gun: musket. This should also be the most powerful firearm of all except for the pump shotgun.

From strongest to weakest my GUESS would be:

pump shotgun
musket
musketoon
large pistol set
medium pistol set, scrapper pistol
blunderbuss
grapeshot pistol
pirate pistol
long pistol
short pistol set, short pistol

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks! I'll have a look at some new damage values for them tomorrow; see if we can balance things a bit more sensibly.

Also, as a reference, how many HP points would you, as player, generally have? And how many shots do you reckon should be (close to) lethal?
I need to know sort-of what the absolute maximum damage should be that the best weapon can do so I've got a fair idea of how to scale things.

In the meantime, I've taken care of this:

I do have to wonder why he is so CRAZY low on HP though. He should be uber-strong.

Now Clint Eastwood really WILL be a hard nut to crack!
With 1600 HP points and a pump shotgun which he can fire every second, I wonder if anyone can beat him without using cheats.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So here are some preliminary thoughts:

- Restore the Blunderbuss to its original purpose: A VERY low-level weapons that still allows you to do multidmg, but with the chance of blowing up in your face
- Allow ALL grapeshot pistols to do multidmg; Should the shotgun do multidmg too?
- Give all grapeshot pistols widely divergent minDmg and mamg so that sometimes they're VERY good, but other times not at all
- Should the braces of pistols have higher, lower or the same accuracy as similar single guns? I'd be inclined to say lower accuracy, because you can't aim as well with so many guns hanging off of you.
Otherwise, what disadvantage should we give to those pistol sets? Apart from obviously being several times the price of their single-gun counterparts?
- Musket should have close to 100% accuracy, since it is made for long-distance. Right?

So on grapeshot, you would have:
1. Blunderbuss: Low level, but chance it blows up in your face
2. Grapeshot Pistol: Medium level, with widely varying damage dealt
3. Musketoon: Fairly consistent high damage

More input appreciate. Will try some number-crunching on this tomorrow.

 

[Armada]

- Musket should have close to 100% accuracy, since it is made for long-distance. Right?

That's fine for using it at range (though even then I don't think it's known for great accuracy), but what about in close quarters?
I don't think it should be too accurate when firing at point blank range, if possible.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Is there a range factor anywhere in the code? The scatterguns should have high damage and low range to be realistic, while the guns should have less damage but much larger range.
Having the extra weight of the guns on your torso should make you more stable and thus more accurate. That weight would be a disadvantage for sword fighting though.

I have fired two flintlocks, a musket and a pistol. The musket was a joy as it had light recoil, good hitting power, and was very accurate. The pistol was so inaccurate I could not hit a thing with it, but it might have been poorly made.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As far as I understand it, in the code the range of a gun is based on its accuracy.
Not what we would like, of course, but that is what we're dealt with and changing it would be a big undertaking.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ahh. So reducing accuracy also reduces range. Then adding multidmg increases accuracy and damage.

 

[Armada]

As far as I understand it, in the code the range of a gun is based on its accuracy.
Not what we would like, of course, but that is what we're dealt with and changing it would be a big undertaking.

No point making any changes, then. I'm sure we can live with that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Ahh. So reducing accuracy also reduces range.

I think so. I'd have to test to be sure.

Then adding multidmg increases accuracy and damage.

As far as I know, the accuracy is unrelated to the multidmg. And the damage in the code is for the "main" enemy.

I have to double-check that code and calculate how many targets you can maximally hit at once and how much percentage of the damage would be dealt to them.
It works in addition to the regular gun code, so that 120 HP Grapeshot Pistol could do that much damage to a SINGLE enemy PLUS part of that to the characters around that enemy.
That 120 HP damage might end up being closer to 300 HP total damage if you factor in all of those.