• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

sailing ship behavior

C

cmdrquan

Landlubber
first off, I want to say I really like pretty much all of Black Barts ideas. I would like to contributes towards that end as I learn more about the code (i've been paying more attention to where game behaviors map to in the code when browsing the forums).

now for my question. is the sailing behavior of the 3d ship set anywhere in the code or is it hardcoded in the engine? i like the fact that the wheather changes every now and then (agreed the changes are a litte too extreme) but what really bugs me is the behavior. e.g: my square-sail yards angle and fill out correctly for the most part, but often my gaff(?) sail (in the back with the big boom) swings into the wind and fills out into the wind, am i correct in thinking that's wrong?

now i'm not sure if this behavior is moddable (on a model-by-model basis or globally) but if so, where can i find it in the code.

thanks
 
I don't quite understand what you mean with "behavior". Do you mean the way the ship's sailing characteristics (speed, manouvrability, etc.) or do you mean the way the sails behave in the wind? The manouvrability can be modified in the code. I don't think it's possible to change the way the sails behave though; that's probably hardcoded.
 
eh, i meant the latter of what you said. but that's kind of what i expected. there are plenty of other things to mod! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=168750:date=Oct 25 2006, 02:02 PM:name=Cmdr Quan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cmdr Quan @ Oct 25 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]168750[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
.................but what really bugs me is the behavior. e.g: my square-sail yards angle and fill out correctly for the most part, but often my gaff(?) sail (in the back with the big boom) swings into the wind and fills out into the wind, am i correct in thinking that's wrong?

now i'm not sure if this behavior is moddable (on a model-by-model basis or globally) but if so, where can i find it in the code.

thanks
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

you would be correct in thinking the way the sails respond to the wind conditions is not always correct <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Different ships seem to have their own weird sail behaviour. The 'Cutter' for example never has the wind catching any of its sails, apart for the top-sail - the main+fore sails 'flap' more or less verticaly on the masts no matter the weather.

Its a shame this may be hard coded as Pieter says - still you never know what cunning trick someone might come up with around here.

Still i'm still not 100% happy with some ships performance for the rig type their sails use - and that stuff is changeable by us - so when i have time after build13 is good to go, we can go through it and improve it a little.

Oh and thanks for the compliment on my ideas for possible mods for PotC <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
The square sails behave correctly. All the fore-and-aft sails are wrong. I've looked at it, but haven't found a way to fix it yet. But the fact that some fore-and-aft rigged ships always have their sails pointing straight back might yeild a clue on how to fix the problem. I've noticed this on the xebec, for example.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=168788:date=Oct 25 2006, 06:20 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 25 2006, 06:20 PM) [snapback]168788[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
The square sails behave correctly. All the fore-and-aft sails are wrong. I've looked at it, but haven't found a way to fix it yet. But the fact that some fore-and-aft rigged ships always have their sails pointing straight back might yeild a clue on how to fix the problem. I've noticed this on the xebec, for example.

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah the poor Xebec(and Tartane) have the short straw on poor looking sails. I was doing a whole load of testing this earlier today. I had been trying to take lots of screenshots to illustrate the problem, but cant seem to find them on my pc anywhere!? Anyway i'm trying to list ships + amount of working sails vs 'dead' sails each type has. We may see a pattern?

Also i posted something on this in another thread, but i'll mention it here as this is a better thread for it:

"Ship Import

For ship import check the Ship/Item/Location checkbox. That sets the u4 value to 0 and unchecks the Reverse Normals checkBox, as is usually required for ships. On unchecking ship, those values are reset to their defaults.

To work in the game with sails etc., ship models need a set of locators. The Easiest way to put those in is by loading a model from the game and saving its locators to a text file (via the locators menu). Then load your new model and import the locators form that text file (again via the locators menu). The view / locators menu allows you to edit the locators for the purposes of the new ship"

thats from Inez Dias site here:

<a href="http://home.arcor.de/swigard/Downloads/TOOL/Help/" target="_blank">http://home.arcor.de/swigard/Downloads/TOOL/Help/</a>

I'm wondering, and part of my testing plan for this is to check stock PotC ships vs modded ships, if maybe some of the 'locator' info for sails on any modded ships might have been misplaced? In my current modded playtest game my most excellent dutch schooner(can you believe i got 20 knots out of her with a full cargo hold!!) only has one working sail(the mainsail) out of its 6 total - i'm sure i would have noticed that when i used to play stock PotC?

Anyway this is possibly something for the ship modder guys to look at - i have all i need to look myself at some time, but i got to learn 3DMax and the process first, so it might take me a bit of time!

Still i'm pretty sure also as Hook mentioned the fore and aft verticaly aligned sails always were a bit odd in PotC.
 
Most ship models were not changed in the modpack, so there should be no locator problems.
 
Ok these are some screens from diferent versions of the game that show the "dead sails" thing:

This one below is the Lugger from the origonal PotC - no mods. The only sail that appears 'dead' is the aft lower sail(this is the same in all versions of the game):

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/LuggerOrigonalPotC.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

this next one is of the Schooner, from build 12.1(full). Only one sail actualy billows with the wind:

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/B12.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

this one below is again the schooner, but in the build13, and has the same issues as above:

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/DeadSails.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />


I think you are right that its not a version specific thing - its just the way some sails are on some of the models in the game by default. I going to try to get some pics from the xbox version to be sure, and hopefuly this is something we can fix by looking at the various locator files that are relevent to sails. My thoughts are why is the Lugger almost perfect sails wise, when the schooner has some serious sail problems?

Interestingly its the aft most main sail on the schooner that does work - often as Hook mentioned thatis one of the dead sails, as it is on the Lugger. Also the fore sails that look like they are flat, i think are probably ok, they just dont have much room to flex as you will notice a slight billow effect when the wind is strong, and you get a curved sail edge. These kind of inconsistencies gives me hope it can be fixed somehow?
 
got those shots from the xbox version of PotC:

The Schooner - ALL the sails appear to be 'dead' on the xbox version, none billow out with the wind!
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/XboxSchooner.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

The Cutter - just the one mailsail and it looks good
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/XboxCutter.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

The Galeoth - the aft sail is dead, like on the stock Lugger:
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/XboxGaleoth.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Different angle of the same Galeoth to better illistrate it:
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/XboxGaleoth2.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

The Cutter in the PC version has a dead mainsail - so that is worth noting.

The schooner is worse in the xbox version - all sails 'dead' as opposed to 1 working on PC.

These things kind of tell me its got to just be some settings somewhere that effect the sails?
 
<b>Bart</b>, for the record, if modded ships had misplaced sail locators, those sails would simply wanish, because the game wouldn't know where to put sails.
 
As I understand it there are also only 3 sail types, and they are called up based on thier locators. Am I correct on that? Anyone know? (If so, then my poor Junk's will be stuck with euro type sails and can't officially be called a Junk, as that is based on the rigging.)

Thanks,

Cap'n Drow
 
<!--quoteo(post=169390:date=Oct 31 2006, 04:38 PM:name=Kazeite)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kazeite @ Oct 31 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]169390[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Bart</b>, for the record, if modded ships had misplaced sail locators, those sails would simply wanish, because the game wouldn't know where to put sails.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

ok well that is very usefull to know - so what the hell is wrong with the sails then???

<!--quoteo(post=169390:date=Oct 31 2006, 04:38 PM:name=Cap'n_Drow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Oct 31 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]169390[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
As I understand it there are also only 3 sail types, and they are called up based on thier locators. Am I correct on that? Anyone know? (If so, then my poor Junk's will be stuck with euro type sails and can't officially be called a Junk, as that is based on the rigging.)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ah that is sad - i had already imagined some fine oriental style sails for that design <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> I wonder if 'new' sails can be added and called?
 
If you can't get the Junk sails done properly in the game, you can always try to make your Chinese ships use a sail texture that seems similar to Junk sails. It'll look slightly oddish, but I think it's the best you can do.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't stiffer sails exactly what is wanted, especially on for and aft rigged ships that sail close to the wind?
 
<!--quoteo(post=169415:date=Oct 31 2006, 06:42 PM:name=Cap'n_Drow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Oct 31 2006, 06:42 PM) [snapback]169415[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
As I understand it there are also only 3 sail types, and they are called up based on thier locators. Am I correct on that? Anyone know? (If so, then my poor Junk's will be stuck with euro type sails and can't officially be called a Junk, as that is based on the rigging.)

Thanks,

Cap'n Drow
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you can put several small lugger type sails on top of each other. That would IMHO look pretty much like junk sails with their "ribs".

BTW nice idea to go for a completely different, asian shiptype. Could become a nice change, much success.
 
<!--quoteo(post=169462:date=Oct 31 2006, 04:32 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Oct 31 2006, 04:32 PM) [snapback]169462[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't stiffer sails exactly what is wanted, especially on for and aft rigged ships that sail close to the wind?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The Bernoulli effect of the wind passing over the front of the billowed out sails when sailing close to the wind gives a considerable additional pull on the sails.

Hook
 
@Petros,
you do get the 'stiff, slightly flapping' sail effect as you pass say from a leeward wind to a windward one, when you hit that point where the sails go neutral and dont catch any wind. But this is only for a moment until either the sail has moved or your boat has(or the wind even) and then the sails catch the wind fully - then they billow out under the strain. The pics of the schooner in particular are all wrong in terms of how its sails should look - they should look more like a Luggers(bar the aft sail of the Lugger which is 'dead') i.e. full with wind - not flat.

The foresails will always look like they are catching less wind than the mainsail, they are smaller for a start and have less give/range, BUT they look like sheet steel in the game sometimes, so they should be a bit more flexible. Still its the in-action of many of the ships mainsails that is worrying me.

I remember now the reason i never liked the schooner in the xbox version, it was because its sails didnt look like they worked! The Cutter however in the xbox version i prefer to the PC version, atleast its mainsail works! So all these variations still seem to hint at it being changable by us...somehow...somewhere?
 
I believe I know why certain sails are "dead".

I took galeoth1 and changed sail type attached to <b>rey_a3</b> from <i>sailf</i> to <i>sails</i>. While <i>sailf</i> is the fluffing one, <i>sails</i> billows with the wind like every other sail.

You can try it yourself, too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

So, my conclusion is, some sails are simply not designed to billow with the wind.
 
Heh! ....that sounds easy!! Awesome - something to work with for sure. You have no idea how pleased i am, thanks Kazeite <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

heh, my conclusion is the designers of the sails effect worked too many late nights for too long <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
I'm that happy over this i feel like posting some pics of the type of boat i used to sail <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />

In dock:
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/1593100_1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Under full sail(looks a quiet day though windwise):
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/Ester2.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Under engine i would guess:
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p199/BlackBart06/seks_1055.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

It should be noted this isnt actualy THE boat - but they are all pics i found on the net of the exact type, an oysterman22. They were being built in cornwall, oh about 15years ago i guess - it doesnt look like they are still being made which is sad. Anyway all my pics of my boat, that i inherited from my old man, are in old fashioned photos stuck on the wall in my parents house in Devon.
Since moving to the 'big city' i had to sell her(she was called 'moriel' - in a deep holly green paint with creme trim, and lots of wood as in the pics), and well it was nice to find these pics of such a pretty craft <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Green+ships dont traditionaly go together well, something about bad luck etc, but well she was a looker, very much like that top pic infact, which i cant tell if its deep green or a black?

I couldn't find any pics with the sails really billowing out though(but they do, really! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ) - but i might be able to get some when i next visit my folks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top