Not a Bug To pirate or not to pirate?

[Grey Roger]

If you sink or capture a ship for which you have no valid LoM, you're in danger of becoming a pirate. Supposedly.

The rule seems to be that if Pirates are at least "Wary" to you after the attack, you become a pirate.

Depending on your starting setup, Pirates may already be "Wary" to you, in which case your first act of piracy (or maybe your second, if you get a warning first) will brand you a pirate. Or they may be hostile, in which case you can get away with a lot of illegal plundering without being branded.

So one player (@Hylie Pistof, if I remember correctly) had a Merchant Licence, was sailing into a port under a flag friendly to that port, was attacked by an enemy non-Pirate warship, defeated it, and immediately became a pirate. He lost his Merchant Licence and, as he'd amassed a lot of money, the crew mutinied very soon.

By contrast, in a recent test game (see Unconfirmed Bug - Mutiny problem), I'd started off hostile to Pirates, plundered several ships without having a LoM, and did not become a pirate. The Pirates had gone up a few relation points but not enough to become "Wary". So I did not get a mutiny, which was annoying as I was actively trying to get a mutiny!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Or they may be hostile, in which case you can get away with a lot of illegal plundering without being branded.

That sounds normal; and is how I intended the default behaviour to work.
Pirates start out Hostile to most players; and with "minor acts of piracy", indeed you wouldn't at all immediately turn pirate.
This differs from "MAJOR acts of piracy", such as "capturing/sinking a ship while still flying a flag friendly to them".
The idea was to not have this system be TOO unforgiving; so you have plenty of time to realize you're shifting closer and closer to being friendly with the pirates.

So one player (@Hylie Pistof, if I remember correctly) had a Merchant Licence, was sailing into a port under a flag friendly to that port, was attacked by an enemy non-Pirate warship, defeated it, and immediately became a pirate. He lost his Merchant Licence and, as he'd amassed a lot of money, the crew mutinied very soon.

If he was recognized by that enemy ship, didn't change his flag while that happened and sank/captured the ship at the end, indeed that would be a MAJOR act of piracy; and that behaviour would be expected.
If I recall, a warning should be printed on the screen if you start shooting a ship while still flying a flag friendly to them.
But of course that's easily missed.

So I did not get a mutiny, which was annoying as I was actively trying to get a mutiny!

That's not really a normal gameplay scenario though; is it?

Depending on your starting setup, Pirates may already be "Wary" to you, in which case your first act of piracy (or maybe your second, if you get a warning first) will brand you a pirate.

In which starting scenario's would that happen?
The main one I could think of is something like Brave Black Flag.
There I think that is acceptable, because it's supposed to be a pirate character anyway.

 

[Grey Roger]

If he was recognized by that enemy ship, didn't change his flag while that happened and sank/captured the ship at the end, indeed that would be a MAJOR act of piracy; and that behaviour would be expected.

Not so. He was under a flag friendly to the port. Occasionally you get random ships hostile to the port and this was one such occasion. He was flying a flag friendly to the port and hostile to the raider.

Having said that, and having looked at some of the code in "nations.c", I may have remembered wrongly - perhaps he did not turn pirate but lost his Merchant Licence anyway. But then he should not have got a mutiny for the same reason I didn't - if you have no LoM and aren't a pirate then the crew don't care about your stash of gold, regardless of whether you have a Merchant Licence.

In which starting scenario's would that happen?
The main one I could think of is something like Brave Black Flag.
There I think that is acceptable, because it's supposed to be a pirate character anyway.

Starting off as any non-Pirate corsair definitely does it. The code at the end of "StartStoryline.c" sets your relation with Pirates to "Wary" (unless you are specifically José Joaquím Almeida).

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Not so. He was under a flag friendly to the port. Occasionally you get random ships hostile to the port and this was one such occasion. He was flying a flag friendly to the port and hostile to the raider.

Hmm... That'd be odd then.

Having said that, and having looked at some of the code in "nations.c", I may have remembered wrongly - perhaps he did not turn pirate but lost his Merchant Licence anyway. But then he should not have got a mutiny for the same reason I didn't - if you have no LoM and aren't a pirate then the crew don't care about your stash of gold, regardless of whether you have a Merchant Licence.

Perhaps he did have a LoM?

Starting off as any non-Pirate corsair definitely does it. The code at the end of "StartStoryline.c" sets your relation with Pirates to "Wary" (unless you are specifically José Joaquím Almeida).

Huh; completely forgot it did that...

Does that even make sense though?
Isn't a "non-Pirate corsair" basically just a Privateer?
Why would they not be hostile to them pirates...?

 

[Grey Roger]

There's a fine line between "corsair" and "pirate". A lot of people think they're the same. Pick the wrong target and you end up on the wrong side of that line.

Especially if you have multiple LoM's because then you have no served nation (in game terms, your served nation is Personal) - you serve yourself, you're not loyal to any one crown. If one of your clients makes peace with an enemy, you can still raid that enemy if another LoM covers it. If that other client also makes peace, the enemy is still hostile to you and now you have no LoM to cover you if you have to fight one of their ships... Of course, you can improve your chances of staying legal(ish) by attacking pirates - but they're generally small ships with not much cargo, so they're not worth much as prizes.

Or you might regard yourself as almost a pirate, using one or more LoM's as legal cover for your plundering. Suddenly there's an outbreak of peace and you're not covered any more - you either become a pirate or a pirate hunter. (Ever seen the old film "The Black Swan"? The villain chooses to turn pirate, Henry Morgan is governor of Jamaica but is under suspicion, and the hero is caught somewhere in the middle...)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Ever seen the old film "The Black Swan"?

Have it at home.
Watched it at some point.
Was a long time ago though; don't remember much...

In any case, is there actually a bug here? Or something that doesn't work the way we'd like it to?

 

[Grey Roger]

Probably not an actual bug if I misremembered about the merchant who became a pirate, except he didn't, he just lost his licence. I've changed the thread prefix accordingly.