Willemstad Builders' Trials

[carmenara]

MAJOR UPDATE - V0.3 / 2 Jan '10

217 ships completed in 13 days. Now undergoing integration testing.

Please review the updated manual for a list of completed/historically renamed/reviewed ships.

Major revisions to ship handling for ALL vessels intended, with historically influenced characteristics.

Secondary improvements:

Modifications to Interface ship names (F2 screen, shipyards etc) for reviewed ships.

Shipyard Upgrading item descriptors overhauled. I've fixed some Build 14 specific errors in several ship configurations from.

Read the LAST page for latest developments.



Dear Pirates,

Over the past month or so I've had the idea to modify ship handling for POTC so as to make it a bit more.. lifelike. You can read the concept here.

But you know, working on the manual and all took up a huge chunk of my time, so did reacquainting myself with my old favourite game.

However yesterday this project at last left the inner recesses of my less than sane mind and the first two ships were "reviewed" and resulted in the following:

Prototype ship handling improvements for the Fast Galleon and the Caravel:

1. Realistic inertia. You can now tack. For real. Rudder left full into the wind, raise sails, momentum does the work. No longer do you have to be jealous of that pic of Pride of Baltimore II doing it at 10 knots and your virtual ship gets stuck!
2. Realistic steering. The ship is no longer sailing on rails. You can,in your imagination, have 4 men push the rudder hard over for an emergency turn, but are you prepared to regain control of the ship? You will need to apply counter-rudder to put her back on an even keel. The game won't stabilise the ship, you, the Captain, have the right to do that yourself.
3. Each class of ship will be given her own personality, based on what I deem right from her hydrodynamic profile. Caravel has small rudder? I make a note in the attached ship recognition guide? You bet that is an issue in game.

Note:
4. Keep track of the rudder position mentally. You don't want to have a runaway helm in battle! Real helmsmen CAN miss maneuvers, so can you.
5. Your heading CAN drift on the high seas. Don't be stingy and buy a compass! We disabled the "using wind direction log as compass" cheat so...

I have attached below a test package. Test in the following manner:

1. Use the console.c file to give yourself a FastGalleon1 or Caravel2,
2. then load any save game in port
3. Go to the port, stare at your ship. Hit F11, then F12; which will give you the physical ship
4. Poof, new ship appears

5. Conduct seakeeping trials. Be gentle to the helm, the heavy rudder is meant to help you do graceful turns around islands and such. Sailing upwind in the formerly less useful ships should be much less of a chore, and the increased manuverability is a double edged sword - it's easy to forget rudder position in a pitched battle and you lose the ship...

You can find the test file below. Make a backup, and place it in POTC/Program/Ships. Note that I have ONLY worked on Caravel2 andFastGalleon1 right now. Test the Galleon first, for I have programmed deliberately a little flaw in the Caravel's handling - her character is explained in the readme file.

Warning: File is provided AS IS. Please wait for the finished release product if you don't know how to swap script files!

Development code template WBT 1 (Medium draft cruiser handling template):


ORIGINAL B14 A 10

// Orig Values - NHB14A10
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 0.2; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 2.0;
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 6; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 3;
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 4.0;

// refShip.WaterLine = 0.2;
// refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
// refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 1.0;

LEVEL I HANDLING IMPROVEMENTS

//Ship Handling I - can now tack without losing steerageway
// no heading stabilisation; rudder will not return to centre automatically
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.5;
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 6; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.1;
// refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 0.3;

LEVEL II AS COMPLETED

//Ship Handling II - can now tack without losing steerageway
// no heading stabilisation; rudder will not return to centre automatically
// large hull, poor rudder response at low speed
// waterline raised, lower gun deck was flooding.

refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 2; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.1;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 0.3;

refShip.WaterLine = -0.48;
refShip.TurnRate = 80;

// Default Turn Rate setting - originally from first part of ship init section
// refShip.TurnRate = 31;
// Vessel will NOT attain max TurnRate unless at speed!
// Vessel will attain maximum rate of turn only at max. rudder deflection!
//
// Review: Vessel configured as:
// high seas cruiser, medium draft U-hull, moderate turn circle (WBT1)
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 001> is henceforth complete
// on this day and date Sunday Dec 20 2009, 1311h
// Issues: As yet unable to influence roll factor

* I know exactly what you're thinking with that turn rate, which is MAXIMUM rudder deflection. It takes up to 10 seconds to go that far - consider it an emergency turn!

 

[carmenara]

Update:

All caravels and schooners have been reviewed.

Caravel issue -

I've been given to know the 3 lateen and 1 square masted caravel is a Bartolomeu o Portugues unique ship. However, I was also made aware of this:

In the first half of the 16th century, the Portuguese created a specialized fighting ship also called caravela redonda to act as an escort in Brazil and in the East Indiesroute. It had a foremast with square sails and three other masts with alateen each, for a total of 4 masts. The hull was galleon-shaped, andsome experts consider this vessel a forerunner of the fighting galleon.The Portuguese Man o' War was named after this curious type of fighting ship which was in use until the 18th century.

It would be a pity that such a historically important vessel would be underutilised and wrongly represented in NH.

As such the enclosed ships_init.c file contains a PROPOSED compromise whereby for the time period of Bartolomeu's campaign, no random encounter PMoWs will appear, but for other periods, they will be available normally as a Portuguese, Spanish and (0.3) pirate only option. She is the smallest multiple gun deck vessel available, and is the only ship able to keep up with fore and aft rigged schooners and xebecs close to the wind (though not in top speed).

For reasons of classification I used Caravela Redonda for the squaresail type, Latina for the lateens (which is repeated to prevent confusion, for the PMoWs), and of course hybrid for the half lateen ones. So we have multiple rigging types for the caravels and they all handle differently. Squaresail types are faster; lateen ones can sail well against the wind but are slower in running. Bartolomeu's ship is untouched; she will be the fastest "fast caravel" for storyline purposes.

The schooners in this mod have reduced speed - this is not a game breaker as fore and aft rigs can sail much closer to the wind than square riggers (who are in certain cases now able to run down an older non-topsail schooner) but never match their agility. Schooners can also tack, like they can in RL, without lowering sail. That is if you have the early gaff schooners, or the advanced American types (Baltimore Clippers); The War Schooner appears to be a jury rig of sorts and while her downwind performance and top speed is superior, handling is compromised due to topweight.

I also note that modern schooners, and replicas, have reported their actual top speeds no greater than 15 knots. This is the maximum speed of our Baltimore Clipper equivalents, and can be exceeded by use of player sailing skill and character perks.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds good to be sure.

As for the FastCaravel, I definitly would want the red skin with the eye on the bow to remain quest-only.
However, we could replace the stock game caravels with the FastCaravel model, but keep the original texture.
That way, only the rigging would be updated. However, then we again lose our old style rigging completely.
Does anyone have any input on this?

 

[FireFlyBoy]

Sounds Good, this is a mod I would love to have implemented into "PoTC: NH",

My input for the rigging thing etc, change the Realistic option in the menu to Arcade with the above mentioned Sailing/Rigging changes, and the normal Arcade to be without the Sailing/Rigging changes, because, does anyone here actually use the realistic sailing feature in this?

Or we could add another Realistic button named Realistic & Rigging and have that with the new ship Sailing/Rigging idea.

It may be best to, instead of altering the current ship data, to have the sailing data in like one of those editable settings files so that it overrides the ships basic default sailing, that way, new ship data etc wouldn't have to be included, makes for smaller patch size, added functionality of enabling or disabling the more realistic sailing.

Good work Snow White Sorrow

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There's not much rigging changes intended in this mod; the only rigging change would be for the caravels.
The rest of the changes is manoeuvrability only.
Snow White Sorrow is developing the manoeuvring characteristics
to get more realism and gameplay value in realistic sailing mode.

Once this mod is further underway, we need to find out how these values work in arcade mode.
If they work reasonably there as well, we might consider making them Build defaults.
We might even go as far as enabling realistic mode by default, though perhaps that's not the best idea.
Alternatively, we could put a toggle on the manoeuvring modifications so they only apply to realistic sailing mode.
Or we could make a seperate Advanced Options Menu toggle for it. Though I don't much like that option.

Realistic sailing mode is something that people definitly DO use. It's harder,
especially with the additional limitations we've built into Build 14 Alpha 10.
But it does make for more involving gameplay.

It may be best to [...] have the sailing data in like one of those editable settings files so that it overrides the ships basic default sailing, [...] makes for smaller patch size

As long as this mod remains mainly limited to code modifications, patch size is going to be of no concern.
The final mod might be as small as half an MB.

 

[carmenara]

To get the Portuguese man o war / x3 lateen caravel equivalent, replace Caravel1's model with FastCaravel. Caravel1's scripting has a lateen style handling, caravel2 is the square one and the Light Caravel is the hybrid.

I don't think that detracts from gameplay as realistically, you'll see a lot of differently configured boats in the marina, for sure. Equipment fixtures, even sail material can differ from hull to hull.

As for the skin, until someone makes me a lateen caravel with a normal texture, I'll stick to my guns that having a historically famous ship is more relevant to our objectives than keeping it a special feature vessel. I mean, what's the point of realism if I can't see trademark ships in the virtual Caribbean. I doubt there were fleets of xebecs and super-schooners out there in the real world as well, from the way we tend to favour those "fighter planes" of the sea. Those are the ones that need to be unique. Caravels were not only famous, they were the workhorse of the Portuguese. And from experience in the Med, they were familiar with lateens as well.

Also consider that with the ability to "repaint" ships in the shipyard, the PMOW appearance is definitely not exclusive any more. We might as well let people sail it. I don't think the blood red eyes decoration is that unique as well - anyone who dealt with ancient galleys in the Med probably wanted something similar as well.

And adding the lateen caravel works great for game balance; no longer are xebecs and schooners totally invulnerable to pursuit from Navy vessels (other than another F&A rig attack boat) upwind.

Back on topic, I will be improving the distinction between ships in the shipyard interface by making them more unique. You should see something like Caravel L / H / S for starters. This is especially important like in caravels where the same hull can have potentially, a few rigging types.

I will release package 0.2 properly once I get the manual entries included; I was working on this in the office today.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Replace the files in RESOURCE\MODELS\Ships\Caravel1 with the ones from attached ZIP file.
The Caravel1 then gets the FastCaravel rigging, but keeps the original skin.

Back on topic, I will be improving the distinction between ships in the shipyard interface by making them more unique. You should see something like Caravel L / H / S for starters. This is especially important like in caravels where the same hull can have potentially, a few rigging types.

How far are you intending to go with that? Originally most of the newly added ships each got a different name.
The actually showed up in shipyards as "Lugger CT" and "Light Frigate 2", which is just plain confusing to the players.
That's why Doober reworked all the type names so there's only a few type names left.

As far as I'm concerned, all ships that have the same (or almost the same) sailing characteristics/rigging, should have the same name.
I don't mind some more names than we have now, for realism's sake,
but I'd prefer things to remain somewhat simplified for, well... simplicity's sake.

 

[carmenara]

Excellent, will update package shortly after midnight. Thanks for the caravel :3

I have created proper install documentation/disclaimer and will create an "uninstall" zip file as well, containing default shipinit and whatever was changed.

As for uniquely named classes, I don't think I have to go far with it at all; I started with the most interesting ship types!

You won't get a lateen rigged frigate anyway!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Question: Would you prefer to have the caravel1 or the caravel2 skin as the four-mast version?
The only difference is the paint job.
I'm just wondering if one of them might be better suited to the different rigging than the other.

Excellent, will update package shortly after midnight. Thanks for the caravel :3

You're welcome. Things like that are pretty simple, thankfully.
You could probably do them yourself. If you want, I can tell you how.

I have created proper install documentation/disclaimer and will create an "uninstall" zip file as well, containing default shipinit and whatever was changed.

Good thinking.
I already saved my original ships_init.c file, just to be sure.

As for uniquely named classes, I don't think I have to go far with it at all; I started with the most interesting ship types!

Sounds perfect to me. A few more names where they make sense are certainly welcome.

You won't get a lateen rigged frigate anyway!

Are you sure? What about the "FastNavy"? That's almost lateen-rigged...

 

[carmenara]

MAJOR UPDATE - V0.2

Please review the new attachments on this thread's first post for a list of ships. Major revisions to ship handling for Caravels and Schooners.

Modifications to Interface ship names (F2 screen, shipyards etc) for reviewed ships.

Shipyard Upgrading item descriptors overhauled.

Older files removed.

 

[carmenara]

Progress: Reviewed heavy squaresail schooner (Hooker1) and "Schooner Xebec" which was renamed to "Grand Schooner", both these larger schooners given appropriate handling which emphasises energy management (ala "boom and zoom" tactics) instead of outright maneuverability. Just like piloting a heavy vehicle in RL, you need to plan ahead.

Considering creating custom ships from Xebec hull. I would like to see a barquentine rigged clipper made out of it, as the deep, slender, V hull is perfect for slicing across oceans. Of course, the lateen rig doesn't make a lot of sense in the Atlantic, thats why I'd like a square variant as well, or at least a "Square Topsail Grand Schooner".

I noticed we have a schooner hull with a brigantine rig. Brilliant! We just need such a rig for the Xebec hull too.

USS Constitution fixed in both stock and WBT files; the inertia assignments were missing thereby preventing her from turning at all.

I note that 50% of the 150 or so ships we have are large square-riggers. Indeed, you can say that all I need to do from now on is copy, paste, customise performance characteristics for individual ship hull and rigging, test, move on to the next class. Efficiency is key to completion of this, so I have dropped everything else!

 

[carmenara]

Combat Testing

Having enough ships I tested tactical engagements with the new maneuverability settings.

Combat is now far more fluid and maneuver-centric. Rigging type and hull configuration seems to play a huge role in what tactics are employed.

It's also very difficult to hit a small target that is turning, especially where ownship is maneuvering as well.

Schooner battles are typically very vicious, and more so with the new settings. It's no longer about who brings the largest guns into the fight...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How does the AI like the new values? Are the ships being totally confused, or does it seem to work?

 

[morgan terror]

this sounds magnificent! with Wrecky finally being replaced by a better rig, i am really looking forward to trying this out. it removes a big chunk of the one vice i had against this game, being overly simple seabattles. the only nagging little thing is the fact that NPC's are unaware of the wind direction, which leads to utterly retarded situations just a bit too often.

say, can you actually hear the ship's wheel turn when you do so? it would be nice to hear, i think. some kind of looped soundfile would be enough. then again, the older ships shouldn't even have a steering wheel.

 

[carmenara]

I do have the test package deployed, si senor? :3

Wrecky finally being replaced by a better rig

I presume that's the poor caravel's name?

Giving the option to lose the squares makes her surprisingly able to outpace some newer ships upwind (and are easily to sail because shes so small) but... you might prefer the square riggers for superior downwind speed. The Spanish always re-rigged their caravels to square after leaving the Med's closed waters into steady trade winds.

It's not a nightmare to tack, infact it should be pretty instinctive. Also note that "battle sails" now have a practical function. You're going a steady 8 kts into battle and if you're in a huge giant ship you aren't going to go any faster due to hydrodynamic drag (this speed is historical for giant, non-clipper type ships), so... fly half sails, or not at all, and coast on momentum into battle preventing the enemy from damaging your propulsion.

Scary thing is, the AI does know to do that. Again, you should try the package yourself. Honestly, I have no idea otherwise.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Last time I checked, Morgan Terror didn't have enough HD space to install Build 14 Alpha 10.

 

[carmenara]

I intend to program nation-specific ship handling traits - Spanish and their preference for ram and board tactics will handle like the current Fast Galleon implementation, being rather more unstable and easy to bring about (and yes, ram smaller ships in half). Such as the English will prefer a more stable platform with a deep draft and will have a larger turning circle but ultimately better in a straight line. And the heading won't drift so much.

Counting today (Xmas eve) I would have 4 solid, uninterrupted days to get things done in WBT.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Brilliant! What about ships used by multiple nations though? What do you intend to do with those?
Of course each ship DOES get a national design and each national design has slightly different values,
as shown at the top of the ships_init.c file.

 

[carmenara]

What do you intend to do with those?

Already dealt with.

Generic hulls will remain generic hulls but retain some character from their nation-of-design. Above criteria only applies when the ship class as a whole is or should be made nation-specific. Again, refer to work already done on schooner type and national sub-types. I posted the shiplist below, and my tactics for national distinction.

Everything else is detailed in the manual.

Here be my proposal for a two pronged assault to bring realistic ship handling and naval tactics to both POTC and COAS at once:

CSH Project

And now I have 3.5 days to work on WBT continually while I hunt for a copy of COAS!

;SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials
;Improved ship naming
string = Caravel1,"Caravela Latina"
string = Caravel2,"Caravela Redonda"
string = Caravel3,"Caravela Hermafrodita"
string = FastGalleon,"Fast Galleon"
string = Schooner1,"Gaff Schooner"
string = SchoonerMod,"Jury-rigged Topsail Schooner"
string = SchoonerUSA,"Baltimore Clipper"
string = SchoonerSq,"Squaresail Schooner"
string = Schooner3M,"Grand Schooner"
string = FrigateUSA,"U.S. Frigate"

^ This list showcases the schooner and caravel subtypes which are nation specific! The generic schooner is multinational and is lighter in weight than the rest and is easier to sail efficiently. The heavier jury-rigged battle schooner, and French 3 masted grand schooner both have very different handling from the base class demanding different tactics!

Caravela subtypes are Latina (lateen), Redonda (square) and hybrid (hermaphrodite.. and yes ships with "gender identity crises" from having multiple rigging types at once they were historically termed that)

I will also take into consideration national naval doctrine - Spanish prefer to ram and board from experience in the Med, English and their battle lines, etc. Their ships will be tuned accordingly - hence the fast galleon having an oversized rudder and reduced draft. Better turning ability, less upwind ability as a tradeoff.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This all sounds good to me. One thing we will have to do is to check how these values work in Arcade sailing mode.
We'd have to make sure that both sailing modes give playable results and Arcade won't be too over-the-top.
I hope we can do that without having to build in hundreds of if-statements in ships_init.c... :?