Additional Ship Balancing

[black_kobluna]

Quick question, has anyone managed to figure out changing the calculations for minimum crew required to fire all guns effectively? :?
One thing I would like to do is to lower the crew numbers for some of the ships to more realistic values... but we need to sort this out first.

Hi Captain,

as peter said i did a review of the code. But in my opinion the crew needed to reload the guns is absolutely ok. The Problem is the Number and Size of the Cannons on the ships

I had changed the number and the size of the guns so the crew needed is lowered as well.

ShipsInit

The file above contains much work in crew-sizes and cannons. As well it has big differences between Merchants and Warships.

It's like reality but the number of "physically" guns on the shipmodels doesn't match the real number of cannons used for seabattle calculations any more.

May be this changes can help you. Had been about 6 hours work incl. the search on the web for real crew an cannon numbers of the ships used in potc.

regards
john

P.S. If you like i can change the calculations as well, it's not to much work..

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It sounds a bit confused to me to not have the number of cannons on the model and in the code match up though... :?

 

[Armada]

What I'm thinking is that we could try to use the RN Rating System as a guideline for the crew numbers on Navy ships.
Currently the largest naval vessels in-game have over 1,000 crew, but realistically the system says the maximum is approximately 875, possibly 900 crew.
It might save you a bit of crew-hunting in taverns after a disastrous battle with high crew losses! :
But to do this, the calculations need to be changed to fit the system, to allow maximum efficiency with a lower max crew count.
If this can be done, I think it would be great for historical accuracy purposes.
This link shows the system's guidelines.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Historically accurate numbers would be nice, but I'll settle for something that works well and balanced gameplay-wise.
Might be too much trouble otherwise... :?

 

[Armada]

Historically accurate numbers would be nice, but I'll settle for something that works well and balanced gameplay-wise.
Might be too much trouble otherwise... :?

I understand it might seem superfluous, but when you compare the crew numbers of the current system with the real system, it's easier to see the difference:

[attachment=5357:Crew_numbers_comparison.jpg]

Please note the numbers I quoted are only from the Navy category, since any others are irrelevant to the RN System.
In addition to this, a little common sense helps to clarify. For example, 5 men sounds better than 15 for a Tartane-sized ship! :
And think about it, there's no need for 10 men per gun, so changing that for starters would reduce the large crew numbers for many higher class ships.
So to my eye, it makes sense to change the calculations to allow this. But if it turns out to be too complex, then by all means we'll keep the current system.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Feel free to do something with this if you want.
Personally I wouldn't consider it too much of a priority issue, but I won't stop anyone from doing it.
Any improvement is an improvement, right?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yes, they've returned, (after a reinit) along with the Indefatigable (which I also had to change as it wasn't there either)
There are a few others still missing, but I can't remember which ones...

EDIT:
Ah, I've remembered a couple:
- Dolphin Xebec
- Pirate Fast Galleon

I'll add these back too.

I wuz looking around in my new toy the GM Viewer, and found a ship with what appears to be a nice cabin similar to the Wicked Wench. : It is called the XebecAS there and in the revised ships list it is called the dolphin xebec. Me wants that ship! :shoot: I can not recall seeing it anywhere. Is that what it is called at Vanderdecken's shipyard?

Hehe. Speaking of Vanderdecken...........

 

[Armada]

I wuz looking around in my new toy the GM Viewer, and found a ship with what appears to be a nice cabin similar to the Wicked Wench. : It is called the XebecAS there and in the revised ships list it is called the dolphin xebec. Me wants that ship! :shoot: I can not recall seeing it anywhere. Is that what it is called at Vanderdecken's shipyard?

The names of the ships in the Excel file are what show up in the shipyards, so yes.
As for Vanderdecken's 'replacement'... what happened there?! :blink: I think that guy's had a bit too much rum!
But I think that looks similar to that Kate Blowhorn problem...

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yeah, that is just for fun. When you are buying outfits look for the Spanish Grande.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

For the Vanderdecken weirdness, try this. In PROGRAM\DIALOGS\Hendrick Vanderdecken_dialog.c find:

			if(pchar.model	== "Vanderdecken")
{
pchar.name		 = npchar.name;
pchar.lastname	 = npchar.lastname;
GiveModel2Player(npchar.model,true);
pchar.headmodel  = npchar.headmodel;
npchar.name		 = TranslateString("","Hendrick");
npchar.lastname	 = TranslateString("","Vanderdecken");
SetModelfromArray(npchar, GetModelIndex("Vanderdecken"));
}
else
{
npchar.name		 = pchar.name;
npchar.lastname	 = pchar.lastname;
SetModelfromArray(npchar, GetModelIndex(pchar.model));
npchar.headmodel = pchar.headmodel;
pchar.name		 = TranslateString("","Hendrick");
pchar.lastname	 = TranslateString("","Vanderdecken");
GiveModel2Player("Vanderdecken",true);
}

Replace with:

			if(pchar.model	== "Vanderdecken")
{
pchar.name		 = npchar.name;
pchar.lastname	 = npchar.lastname;
pchar.headmodel  = npchar.headmodel;
pchar.model.animation = npchar.model.animation;
GiveModel2Player(npchar.model,true);
npchar.name		 = TranslateString("","Hendrick");
npchar.lastname	 = TranslateString("","Vanderdecken");
npchar.model.animation = "man";
npchar.headmodel  = "h_Vanderdecken";
SetModelfromArray(npchar, GetModelIndex("Vanderdecken"));
}
else
{
npchar.name		 = pchar.name;
npchar.lastname	 = pchar.lastname;
npchar.headmodel = pchar.headmodel;
npchar.model.animation = pchar.model.animation;
SetModelfromArray(npchar, GetModelIndex(pchar.model));
pchar.name		 = TranslateString("","Hendrick");
pchar.lastname	 = TranslateString("","Vanderdecken");
pchar.model.animation = "man";
pchar.headmodel  = "h_Vanderdecken";
GiveModel2Player("Vanderdecken",true);
}

Hopefully the animation now WILL transfer properly.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

At Vanderdecken's shipyard that is the only Xebec and it is called the Heavy Xebec. I thought there were more than one xebec there. Anyways, it looks like a strange hybrid ship with a very well detailed cabin with tables and chairs and desks. Sometimes you can see the crew walking around in there too.

PS: This ship is listed as having 26 cannons. I only counted 20 cannons on this ship, and remember a few months ago there was some discussion about a 44 gun improved Xebec. It was decided to give it 20 guns because that is all that type of ship can carry. So, should this xebec have 20 guns also? It is listed as a quest ship also.


I made the changes and will see how it works when I get that Spanish Grandee again. That is the only outfit that does that so far.

 

[Talisman]

At Vanderdecken's shipyard that is the only Xebec and it is called the Heavy Xebec. I thought there were more than one xebec there. Anyways, it looks like a strange hybrid ship with a very well detailed cabin with tables and chairs and desks. Sometimes you can see the crew walking around in there too.

PS: This ship is listed as having 26 cannons. I only counted 20 cannons on this ship, and remember a few months ago there was some discussion about a 44 gun improved Xebec. It was decided to give it 20 guns because that is all that type of ship can carry. So, should this xebec have 20 guns also? It is listed as a quest ship also.

The XebecAS is the ship given to Johan Elting by V-A Benavides at the beginning of the Assassin story.

I think it is a ship specifically designed for this story.

It shows on the ships interface as Heavy Xebec.

I thought it could be bought from Vanderdecken - though I am not certain.

PS When crew walk in the cabin - the tops of their heads appear through the Quarterdeck. :

Images of Elting's ship:

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ahoy Talisman! 3

I got mine from Vanderdecken. Yours is bigger than mine. :glare: Back we go..... Oh wait. I've got to stop at a Spanish port first.

It appears to sit higher than other xebecs too. I don't know if that is right or wrong, but it certainly looks like a different ship because of it.

 

[Talisman]

PS: This ship is listed as having 26 cannons. I only counted 20 cannons on this ship, and remember a few months ago there was some discussion about a 44 gun improved Xebec. It was decided to give it 20 guns because that is all that type of ship can carry. So, should this xebec have 20 guns also? It is listed as a quest ship also.

Remember to count the 6 swivel guns

I have just checked the Assassin Main Quest topic in the Assassin Storyline Forum & the ship could "historically" be described as a purpose built privateer.

http://forum.piratesahoy.net/topic/12786-assassin-main-quest/page__view__findpost__p__313026

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Indeed it can. Farther along in that thread it is mentioned that 12% smaller crew are added so that they don't bang their head in the cabin. Damski created them. Are they still being used, or were they removed? That would be a global change, would it not?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you are in Arcade mode, the XebecAS is called "Heavy Xebec". In Realistic mode, she is the "'Dolphin' Xebec".
Both are the same ship, which is available in the Assassin storyline as quest ship and from Vanderdecken.

If I recall correctly, the 12% smaller crew have been in use as default models for all ships in Build 14 for quite some time.

 

[Talisman]

If you are in Arcade mode, the XebecAS is called "Heavy Xebec". In Realistic mode, she is the "'Dolphin' Xebec".
Both are the same ship, which is available in the Assassin storyline as quest ship and from Vanderdecken.

Ships are called different things depending on which playing mode you use -- that is confusing

Are there any other ships like that :mm

 

[Armada]

Ships are called different things depending on which playing mode you use -- that is confusing

Are there any other ships like that :mm

Now that certainly could get confusing, and that's not what we want. :wacko:
I think there are other instances of this, but personally I think it should just be changed to ONE name only, used for both Arcade and Realistic modes.
At least that's easily done.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Indeed. In ships_init.c One sees this:

if (!bArcadeMode){
refShip.SpeedRate = 12.75;
refShip.TurnRate = 100;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.4;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 2.5; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.5; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2.0;
}else{
refShip.SpeedRate = 14.85;
refShip.TurnRate = 50;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 0.2; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 2.0;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 15; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 10;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 9.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2;


If I am seeing what I think I am seeing, then the name of the ship has no bearing on what mode you are playing in. These are the stats for the xebexAS.

 

[Armada]

True, that part has no effect on the name, but in the first few lines, you see this:

refShip.Name   	= "XebecAS";
refShip.all  	= "Xebec1";
if (bArcadeMode)	refShip.SName = "XebecPir2";
else				refShip.SName = "XebecPir2_real";
refShip.walk  	= "XebecAS";
refShip.id    	= refShip.Name;

All that'd need to be done to use one name only is to remove the 'if/else' function and use one 'refShip.SName' line.