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... but I find Thibault cancels out Capo Ferro, don't you?

Electrical scoring? Heh. It's weird to wear one of those jackets with a plug attached to your arm. I guess it's cordless now, but yeah, I like the old style better.

And I never could get used to those pistol grip handles. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
 
Lady Cat,
I got to start this post with a compliment about all of the new smilies I'm seeing available as I write this. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> I know a lot of people have put them together, but thanks as well for setting them up. I think we're going to be seeing a lot of this little fellow. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />

My problem with electrical was that for a while matches consisted of two fencers running at each other trying to be the first to land a touch. I remember listening to a discussion between two fencers on the finer points of "sensitizing" their points to better register a hit. Fortunately the trend I've seen of late is going back to mixing some defense into the game. I would never in a real swordfight ever consider making a fleche' attack against an opponent, I probably wouldn't really ever commit to a full on lunge either, but I feel that electrical, at least for a while, encouraged people to do nothing but fleche' attacks making the game more of a race with "pointed sticks" than the art form it truly is. Maybe part of the problem is just "competitive" fencing itself, anybody who has played the game for a while knows that your toughest competition in fencing is yourself.

Don't like the pistol grips? I love the point control they provide, you can make the tiniest and quickest degage's and coupe's, and call your hits with a certainty sure to intimidate even the most effective opponent. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> I have a theory as well that it makes it more difficult for an opponent to get an accurate gauge on how tightly you are holding your blade.

I've seen some unwieldy grips available out there, but I love my standard model Santelli grip, cheap and effective, <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> but like I said I only let myself get it after long years of practice with the standard French foil. ( A thing of beauty in its own right, really.)
 
YArr! Watchin' de women's Olympic fencin', Fred Bob be a bit shocked at how FAST each "set" be played! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" /> Dese folks jud' de nuttin' but lunge at each udder, totally willin' tew gamble on best 3 out of 5 or whatever! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" /> An' thar was little or no defence an' no slow motion replays or nuttin'! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":|" border="0" alt="mellow.gif" />
 
I only got to see the women's sabre matches, which was especially fun watching the American women taking gold and bronze, my favorite part is the acting that goes on whenever a halt is called and each fencer makes a gesture of, "oh yeah, I got you that time!" <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

There are times that I have no idea who actually got the touch and I'm just glad that I'm not doing the judging. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
 
Interesting the tactics that become employed when there is no risk of blood being drawn. It's a bit like a video game, rather than a true duel. Dispense with the protective gear at the Olympic level, and you'd see the sudden reintroduction of defense! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> You have a point (oooh pun!) there, Mad Jack!

Nope, never liked the pistol grip, just liked my leather glove and a standard French foil grip. Secure and in control. I felt like I didn't have enough strength with the pistol grip.

Glad you like the new lineup of smilies, I rearranged them - some still need to be placed in the correct spots - <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> and <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> need to be right after the first guy - that's the order of their popularity.
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dispense with the protective gear at the Olympic level, and you'd see the sudden reintroduction of defense!  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You've hit the nail right on the head, Mad Jack, the game of fencing has usually been guided by the logic of what you should do if someone is attacking you with something sharp, either pointy or edged.

That explains why "right of way" is such a ruling concept. Of course it only adds to the problem when the various fencing associations keep changing the rules regarding the establishment of right of way. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

I recall a nearly heated exchange between another fencer and myself, where his interpretation of the rules of right of way established that he always had right of way and I never did. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

The pen may be mightier than the sword, but a "mouth" can make for a dull fencing bout. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />
 
No kidding, Sir Christopher! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

I do know what you mean about the electronic scoring taking all the strategy out. It's like a video game, swing wildly and hope you connect. I like Mad Jack's idea - make it dangerous and the players will start using strategy again.

I love a polo game, for that. It's speed, danger, and strategy, coupled with athletic skills on many levels for both rider AND horse, plus good `hand-eye` coordination.
 
I think the only kind of polo that the ponies would be willing to let me play is the kind in the pool where you have to yell out, "Marco!" <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

All this fencing talk made go back and do a prolonged "Redguard Rampage" in my Redguard game. Between POTC and Redguard, I sometimes wonder why "Bethesda" didn't incorporate some of the Redguard fencing into POTC. The main character in POTC makes cuts or thrusts and even lunges in a very indiscriminate manner. Now there's a modding project! A more Redguard type of fencing where you choose the type of attack you want to make and your opponents don't stand around flatfooted waiting for you to kill them. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

I'm glad to hear your working on swordfighting smileys, Lady Cat! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-SirChristopherMings`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SirChristopherMings)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm glad to hear your working on swordfighting smileys, Lady Cat!  :cheers[/quote]It's taking a lot of work to get them just right... They're little, but they're tricky! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />
 
just had a nice bank holiday break <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Thanks for all the advice+info about fencing clubs - that Saxon one looks good, i think i'll look for a simular priced one to start with, then if i get the bug i can always move to the more expensive(better instructors?) one if i feel the need.

And yeah i really dont like all the talk of electric stuff and pistol grips for sword fighting! I'll attempt to keep it authentic and traditional. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Arghh! they'll have to pull me pistol grip out of me cold dead hand! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

Keep us posted on your progress, you're in for a real treat! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

(Might have to start looking around for a group myself... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" /> )
 
out of interest does anyone know the origin of the pistol grip in fencing? Is it a fairly new thing, maybe associated with the olympic sport? or was it actualy used in combat, when people still duelled for honour?
I can imagine it would make you strikes much more accurate, and maybe quicken your reactions when moving the blade around from the wrist, BUT you must loose some power and in a real combat situ i have problems seing it being as effective as a normal sword grip? Or am i looking at it too much from a broadsword+samuraisword perspective?

he he - you know when i started talking about fencing i really wasn't sure if it was what the thread was about, i just got interested in the fine picture! i apologise if i `thread-jacked`(should be `thread-pirated`!) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" />

And sure i'll keep people posted on how it goes - i'm looking at starting in the new year, just need to find a more local club(that 'beer friendly' one might come back into the picture) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->out of interest does anyone know the origin of the pistol grip in fencing? Is it a fairly new thing, maybe associated with the olympic sport? or was it actualy used in combat, when people still duelled for honour?  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know the actual date the pistol grip came about, but I think it is no more than 30 or forty years old and was only developed for competitive fencing. I'll have to look and see.. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />

I find that it is helpful for point control, especially for changing lines of attack without telegraphing your action to your opponent, he can't block what he doesn't see.

"Power" has little place in fencing, it is more about finding the balance between speed and control, and serving the blade; the blade is designed specifically for its task and it's up to the fencer to find a way to help, and not hinder, the blade from accomplishing that task. (Sheesh, that was almost a lecture, you'll find out, I'm anxious to hear what your impressions of fencing turn out to be.)

There's a book that was recommended to me by one of my coaches, in "Zen and the Art of Archery" in the back of the book it has a section that deals with swordsmanship. I would highly suggest reading it because it has concepts that I have applied throughout the time that I have been fencing. The rest of the book isn't bad either. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Child of Thor, you're actually on the tack I set out on for this thread, either swordplay or fencing, but I am as prone to digression as anyone else around here, don't concern yourself about staying on topic overmuch. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> (at least in any thread I have started. ) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Zen and the Art of Archery! I have that book around here somewhere! Excellent read! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

I've never had much trouble controlling my blade (subtly) with the regular grip. You have to use all of your fingers, but that's fine with me. With the pistol grip, everything changed, and it felt weird to me. I guess it's just a personal choice.

Besides, I can't wear a pistol grip on my fencing rapier, it would look... `Un-authentic`! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I've got to get that fencing smiley done... <sigh> But I've got so much else do DOOOOOO! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> (I think I'd be lost if I ran out of things to do) (no I wouldn't, I'd just dive into a good book!) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />
 
I found when i've done sword fighting, that the approach that works best for me is too keep up the pressure on the opponent - i'm kinda super fit so i've never reached fatigue point in a duel, although when you read about some of the medieval battles lasting for days i think that might take its toll <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
So i try to let attack follow attack and beat my opponent with shear weight of blows. Not very subtle i know, but i do practise defense as well, just to be on the safe side!

So part of the attraction for me with fencing is that it is the equivelent of a martial art, but with a blade. Having studied a few forms of eastern martial arts i'm looking forward to fencing polishing and refining my blade combat skills, which are probably fairly rough and ready.

I never use my bastard sword in combat, but having used the latex/foam type weapons that some `re-enactment` groups do, a few friends and myself prefered to use wooden practise weapons - they still hurt enough that you care about parrying a blow!

Still fencing seems like the only real way to practise with live swords safely, and i think i'm as curious as SirChristopherMings as to how i find it. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
It's addictive, CoT... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> And a heckuva lot of fun! I know the challenge kept me coming back for more.

There can also be a kind of poetry to it. It's probably one reason why that scene from Princess Bride where Westley and Inigo are dueling is so satisfying to someone who enjoys the sport. That was an incredibly `well-thought` out and choreographed fight scene, absolutely brilliant...

IMHO, in comparison, the one in PotC rather sucks. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huhh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:k" border="0" alt="huhh.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found when i've done sword fighting, that the approach that works best for me is too keep up the pressure on the opponent - i'm kinda super fit so i've never reached fatigue point in a duel, although when you read about some of the medieval battles lasting for days i think that might take its toll  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Child of Thor,
I think you're just going to love Sabre. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

I'm a bit older and my moving anymore than I have to days are over, and as a result I'm guilty of what a lot of older fencers are, in that, we attack into our opponent's attack, get the touch and get back in time to parry the attack. My arms are fairly long and I will often move in agressively at the start to get my opponent to move back to his end of the strip, and then I will start a long slow retreat back to my end of the strip waiting for "the opportune moment." <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />

Also, depending on whom I am fencing, i will recite a sonnet during a bout and try to land a touch on the last line. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and i think i'm as curious as SirChristopherMings as to how i find it.  <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is very like as Catalina says, "there can also be a kind of poetry to it," and the more fencing you do, the more fencing you feel you need to do. I think this will compliment your other martial arts training splendidly, I feel fencing is what has brought me the closest to gaining a slight inkling of what "Bushido" is all about.

The fencing scene in the Princess Bride is fun, but the Pirates of the Carribean fight I really enjyed as well. Did anyone see this move, By the Sword?
<a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101524/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101524/</a>

It has it's good points and bad points as far as fencing goes, <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> and it is not a movie that anyone should run right out and rent for the brilliant acting, it's just okay..

On the other hand have either of you seen the Duellists?
<a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075968/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075968/</a>

A really talented fencing instructor, who was teaching me, really liked the first one and hated the second one, but I am very keen on the Duellists myself.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IMHO, in comparison, the one in PotC rather sucks.  
_________________<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't undertand Lady Cat, you don't like being able to parry four attackers at the same time, even if two of them are behind you? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
Notwithstanding the flaws of fencing in POTC, I still enjoy it. If I feel that I am getting away with something, I get out my Redguard game, so I have to decide whether I'm going to cut or thrust, rather than admire Nathaniel's preeminance with a blade. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />
 
Oh it was okay, I just didn't like it as well as the one in PB... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> And I was talking about Will and Jack... That was labored, I think, which MAY have something to do with how it was edited... Although the END was pretty funny.

Quite frankly, and some may find this rather shocking, I didn't really *like* PotC when I first saw it. It was "okay" but just not what I was expecting... Don't get me wrong; parts of it are brilliant, but I couldn't help but think that overall, "Uncle Walt" would have been a little disappointed in it. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" />
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> Note to self: read posts more closely!

Doh, I thought you were talking about the swordplay in the game POTC, not the movie. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

I think in the movie POTC they justified the "gymnastics" they had them do better than what was done in Pricess Bride. The handy bars to swing on on the Cliffs of Insanity interfered with my suspension of disbelief. My viewing of the movie, the Pricess Bride, was also heavily affected by my affection for the book, and they would have had a hard time fulfilling my expectations of the scene because of that no matter what. Inigo's inner monolouge, along with the sallies between him and Westley, made the experience for me. (In short, I went in as a prejudiced audience member. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blah:" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> )

There are so many flawed things in POTC the movie, (strong storyline comes to mind, or the lack therof...) that I can understand why you might not have felt that it was a thoroughly worthwhile movie. When I saw it my expectations were not high, but some of the dialouge won me over. "They're more like guidelines, really..." <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
(funny the first time when Barbossa said it, less so the second time when Keira Knightly said it.)
 
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