• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Defining a Common Goal

Number of crew and number of guns could be very unrelated. If you favor grapeshot, it's possible to wipe out enemy crews while doing minimal damage to guns and/or hull. We do need to do more with crew number and ship capability.

Powder magazine explosions usually required a ship to burn for some time (like hours) before they blew up. The odds of just shooting through a ship and making a substantial ammount of powder blow up are not good. Even a cannonball hit to a powder storage would probably just make a hole and spill several bags of powder. That goes back to the fire question.

Ron
 
<!--quoteo(post=145135:date=Apr 11 2006, 12:14 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Apr 11 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]145135[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Number of crew and number of guns could be very unrelated. If you favor grapeshot, it's possible to wipe out enemy crews while doing minimal damage to guns and/or hull. We do need to do more with crew number and ship capability.

Powder magazine explosions usually required a ship to burn for some time (like hours) before they blew up. The odds of just shooting through a ship and making a substantial ammount of powder blow up are not good. Even a cannonball hit to a powder storage would probably just make a hole and spill several bags of powder. That goes back to the fire question.

Ron
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Yeah but who actually uses grapeshot? I have to say in all the battles I've been in I've never had cause to use grapeshot. It is pretty much useless. Most battles are at a range too far away to hit with grape, and if you get close enough then if you have the boarding abilities then it is easier to just board. Unless loss of crew had some sort of effect enough to make it worth trying to kill 'em rather than use balls or chain/bar shot, or if the AI is made to not fire unless literally alongside the enemy I can't see grape being worthwhile.
 
well thats your opinion, i tend to usually use grape shot when closing in to board. especially if its a large prize that has a greater crew complement than my ship
 
Gun range seems to be a little skewed too. Tests with ship cannon from the early 1800's say grapeshot could be very effective out to ranges of 300 yards or more, and possibly well beyond that. Boarding, on the other hand, pretty much requires you to be within 40 yards or so, even if you're really good at that stuff. (That's about how far you can throw a grappling hook, assuming your aim and timing is perfect.)

In the current model, max range on grapeshot seems to be about 30 yards. Sure, that might be the most effective range, but it's not maximum range. (Actually, about 50 to 70 yards would be most effective - 30 is still too close to take advantage of the spread pattern, and is still going to mostly shoot a single hole instead of peppering half the ship.) Also, in the current model, boarding ranges are likely too long - unless you figure they are using cannon-fired harpoons to snag the other ship (which was and could be done, but may not be the smartest plan... good way to overturn one or both ships).

Gun ranges in general need some work. If somebody wants to attack that, I'll look up what I can on the subject.

Ron
 
<!--quoteo(post=145138:date=Apr 11 2006, 01:35 AM:name=Merciless Mark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merciless Mark @ Apr 11 2006, 01:35 AM) [snapback]145138[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
well thats your opinion, i tend to usually use grape shot when closing in to board. especially if its a large prize that has a greater crew complement than my ship
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Does it actually affect how many enemy crew/soldier you encounter in the boarding scenes then? I'd assumed it simply reduced their ability to reload the guns and reduced the number of crew you can steal after defeating them. I tend to find it is easier to just board when within range for using grape as otherwise whilst I fire grape, they fire balls and do serious damage to my ship. With the musket volley and increased crew damage skills anyway boarding isn't usually too hard.
 
Well, it does reduce the resistance in the boarding fight screen. Either the number or quality of enemies, and/or the number of decks you have to fight through. Rate of surrender from either cannon fire or casualties in the boarding screen are the same factor.

Can't give you the programming on that - I have no idea how it's wired. I just know that if you attack a ship that outnumbers you, where the enemy crew have decent morale, then boy are you ever in for a fight. If their morale and/or numbers are already broken, sometimes they surrender without a fight, and sometimes they go for the top deck, but rarely more.

Ron
 
If you decrease the enemies' crew numbers with grapeshot, you will face less strong enemies on boarding. If you did enough damage, you will even encounter less enemies.

<!--quoteo(post=145111:date=Apr 10 2006, 06:08 PM:name=Merciless Mark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merciless Mark @ Apr 10 2006, 06:08 PM) [snapback]145111[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
The criticals and cannon loss are seperate, but yes the critical hits have been significantly reduced. its my end goal to turn it into a powder magazine explosion
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Sometimes fire reaches the powder magazine in the game. Not sure when or how, but I have seen it every now and then. You should find the code for that and see if you have to change anything there. I haven't noticed any major explosions after the fire reaches the magazines though. The ships didn't seem to take much damage either. Weird. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
 
Most ships would probably not keep all of the gunpowder in the same box. British ships of the 1800's tended to have a "powder magazine" because it was the most protected part of the ship, and because 70 gun lineships burned so much ammo that you needed a large storage area - but those ships WERE floating powder magazines, for all practical purposes. That said, most ships stored dangerous materials (gunpowder, varnish, tar, anything that would burn violently) in small quantities at several locations, so a single secondary explosion would not take out the entire ship. In general, small secondary explosions would probably be the rule.

Ron
 
I once raked down a MoW's crew with a frigate using grapes, when i boared it was all my men(max one can have on boarding) vs 1 enemy solder <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=145177:date=Apr 11 2006, 03:42 PM:name=Merciless Mark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merciless Mark @ Apr 11 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]145177[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I once raked down a MoW's crew with a frigate using grapes, when i boared it was all my men(max one can have on boarding) vs 1 enemy solder <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
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What 1 enemy in the whole ship or 1 per deck? Clearly I should be getting out the grapes a bit more then!
BTW, how does the game work out how many enemies should face you? Is it a percentage of the number of crew available on that enemy vessel?
 
<!--quoteo(post=145178:date=Apr 11 2006, 05:00 PM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Apr 11 2006, 05:00 PM) [snapback]145178[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=145177:date=Apr 11 2006, 03:42 PM:name=Merciless Mark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merciless Mark @ Apr 11 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]145177[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I once raked down a MoW's crew with a frigate using grapes, when i boared it was all my men(max one can have on boarding) vs 1 enemy solder <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
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What 1 enemy in the whole ship or 1 per deck? Clearly I should be getting out the grapes a bit more then!
BTW, how does the game work out how many enemies should face you? Is it a percentage of the number of crew available on that enemy vessel?
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One total

as for how the game determines number of crew i have no idea, all i know is that it works <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
Houm...

About criticals, I never have seen a ship blow to bits, although have seen the "fire reached the gunpowder magazine of (...)" message. Also have seen messages saying "(...) has been sunk by the hand of God!". For criticals, I do understand them as, a, a timely hit that causes a gun to blow, or b, a cartridge which has been hit. Usually gunpowder boys carried two cartridges per trip (one in their arms and another in a bag) so, it makes some sense that a exploding cartridge could kill some crew and damage the ship... otherwise, a true critical would require an advanced damage model (which POTC has not) and an advanced sail model (which POTC has not, too), plus an advanced AI able to deal with it all. I think it's better see POTC as it comes as the perfect naval simulation won't come any soon, and criticals just represent that "special" things which could help destroy a ship. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />
 
After reading this thread carefully, I want to throw in my 2 dublons.
I sujest that the team implements heated shots as a ingame functionality cause more than bombs, heated shots were the base to all naval battles (read somewhere that the effect could be compared to drop a match into dry hay). And, if you have heated shots equiped, when you score a critical in the "Santa Bárbara" (portuguese name for the place where the gunpowder and ammo were stored usually in the front side of the ship) the ship should just blow up menaing, if you're trying to capture the ship you'll think twice before using this functionality...

Also, casualities should be high... cause remember even if you're not armed by a 18 pound canon bullet flying by, the shock from the impact is probably more than enough to knock you of your feet and the noise and stuff flying around... it should be cahotic... So I believe introducing a feature that'd make the number of sailors fighting depend on the number of salvos fired and morale and not on the actual crew in itself...


Cheers...
 
Hi

im new ,this is my first post

but here are ten ideas


1) If that time select thing is possible then it will certainly be worth while.

2) New dialogue for the characters (at the moment it is so repetative).

3) New ships.

4) A option to remove the weapon condition thing.

5) New quests.

6) Make the islands such as antigua and saint martin work properly.

7) The heated shot idea sounds good as an once a battle ability (but should have an option to turn off).

8) The surrender mod must be modified.

9) I dont know if this has been fixed but what the hell is up with the character colonys.

i) you can walk through them.
ii) Lack of variity and a assault from the sea would be fun.
iii) I was being attacked and just as i went to defend my colony suddenly my buildings formed into
some form of militia and hunted and killed some spaniards!!!!! (and yes i do mean buildings !!!!
Code: 
).

10) Quests for the governers more than just pirate hunting (hostage retrival, escort, assasination etc)


Thanks guys let me know what you think
 
<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
im new ,this is my first post
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Welcome to the PotC forum! I hope you'll enjoy your stay!

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
1) If that time select thing is possible then it will certainly be worth while.
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What is that time select thing? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
2) New dialogue for the characters (at the moment it is so repetative).
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Possible, but requires a lot of work. If somebody does this work, I'll add it into the modpack. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
3) New ships.
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Petros is still working on new ships. He released several improved versions of ships of his lately which will be in the final Build 13. Also to be included is the actual film version of the Black Pearl. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
4) A option to remove the weapon condition thing.
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What do you mean with "weapon condition thing"? A lot of mods can be turned off or tweaked in PROGRAM\BuildSettings.h.

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
5) New quests.
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Possible, but requires a lot of work. If somebody does this work, I'll add it into the modpack. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
6) Make the islands such as antigua and saint martin work properly.
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What do you mean with "work properly"? In Build 13 Beta 2, the new islands have been finished and made work properly, as far as I know.

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
7) The heated shot idea sounds good as an once a battle ability (but should have an option to turn off).
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Forts use bombs, but ships do not. However, if you sneak into one of the forts from the land side, you might be able to convince someone in the fort to give you some bombs. These bombs have about the desired effect. I have once seen a ship being blown to bits by a fort. Now THAT looked COOL! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> The surrender mod must be modified.
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In what way? There are several scalars in BuildSettings.h that can be used to make surrenders occur more or less frequently.

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
9) I dont know if this has been fixed but what the hell is up with the character colonys.

i) you can walk through them.
ii) Lack of variity and a assault from the sea would be fun.
iii) I was being attacked and just as i went to defend my colony suddenly my buildings formed into
some form of militia and hunted and killed some spaniards!!!!! (and yes i do mean buildings !!!!
Code: 
).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ARGH! I'm getting SO tired from people complaining about the BuildingSet mod. We know it works odd, but there's nothing much we can do about it. It's either a weird BuildingSet mod or no BuildingSet mod at all. We've tried improving it, but had no luck. But you don't have to use that mod if you don't want to. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=164568:date=Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM:name=fitz171)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fitz171 @ Sep 30 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]164568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
10) Quests for the governers more than just pirate hunting (hostage retrival, escort, assasination etc)
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Would be nice, yes. But again: Takes a lot of work. But if somebody codes it in, I will add it into the modpack. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
@Pieter Boelen, I don't think you understood my idea of a heated shot... heated shots were used by the navies as a way to increase damage made by canon fire... it was very eficient as all materials have an ignition point. ow imagine sending an iron ball trough a woden ship... now imagine that iron ball heated to 1000+Cº...
Sounds fun no?? So let the forts use bombs but the ships make them use heated shots...


Cheers...
 
This idea has been discussed before, but has not yet been implemented. I agree it would be fun. But it should have a large risk for the player as well, because the player might set his own ship on fire if something goes wrong. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Of course 1st, it should take a while longer to reload the ship cuse you have to take that extra care to load heated bullets, then, if you're hit at, lets say, 3/4 of the reloading stage (the part where theoretically the bullets were being placed on the guns) you should have a greater chance of creating a fire on board (like .2% * the number of guns)...

Cheers...
 
And don't forget that every shot that hits your hull has a chance of setting your own ship on fire. This is why heated shot was not used much in real life. Heck, when a ship went into battle, they'd put the cooking fire out so that it wouldn't burn up the ship in case of a stray shot hitting the stove! And that was just ONE fire... heated shot requires several fires.

Oh, and don't forget the possibility of the heated shot igniting the gunpowder charge, resulting in the loss of some crew and possibly the cannon itself.

I don't think I'll be using heated shot myself.

Hook
 
However they did use it... the chances I made was for a ship with 100 guns has a 20% change of being set on fire if it gets a hit while loading...
Also imagine a heated shot driving trough your gunpowder stock...
one shot one kil...

Cheers...
 
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