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Fixing the ship battles.

Food and disease affecting health is actually one of the things I thought about earlier ... but let's save that for another day. Get what we have here working first. Deal with disease and effects of food types on health another day, when we add multiple types of food and other such features (including having the crew eat/drink any number of different things). That's a minor feature, and we can put it on the back burner for now.

(Plus it takes a long darn time to develop scurvy. A lot of other medical problems would probably be more pressing.)

Meanwhile, yeah, the basics of the wounded/killed thing would be that many more would be wounded than killed. With the defense perks neutralized/changed into something else, that would add up that getting your boat shot up would result in crew casualties. If you won the battle, some of the wounded would recover within some period of time (depending on your doctor). Still, they would not be available for boarding, reloading guns or damage control in the next few minutes. (Also, if you board an enemy ship, odds are there would be few healthy ones surrendering, and a bunch of wounded for you to deal with... a setback, in itself, and throwing the wounded overboard would be real bad for morale.)

The only big question is - do we change the defense attribute to medical skill, and rework the perks to reflect realistic effects of training and discipline; or do we keep the defense skill and make the perks into levels of medical training?

And can somebody actually code this?
 
Wow what the f*****g hell? Really why i haven't noticed that Mount & Blade game? I swear i have heard of it once but haven't seen it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> I gotta try that game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" />

And yes something MUST be done with current sea battles/sea stuff. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
It could all *in theory* be coded. Unfortunately I would need to figure it all out from scratch, because I know nothing of this all. AND I have plenty of other PotC and non-PotC related work things on my plate already. Therefore I think it would be better if somebody else could do it, because if you'd need to depend on me for it, it'd take forever. If it would get done at all, that is... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

If only Alpha 8 were done soon, then we could perhaps start on making that one more playable and work on game balancing on that version. Perhaps Pirate_KK could even help with the game balancing then.

And for the scurvy thing: I was just thinking that we could use "wounded" to mean any way of being alive, but unavailable as active crew. So that would include being wounded as well as being ill. I would then imagine that you should be able to drop off sick/wounded crewmembers at port and hire "fresh" crew as well. Adding this new concept of wounded crew would probably be quite a big undertaking, but I think it IS a very good idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Of course, putting wounded/ill crew ashore to recover would be part of the game. And yes, eventually it would be very nice to use the "disabled" condition to apply both to combat injuries and to general health problems. And yes, these would be very good additions. And yes, I realized that immediately and I'm sure everyone else did too.

But can we stay focused for just one minute? One problem at a time. First we have to make it happen, and play right in combat. Worry about additional features based off of that capability later.

---------------------------

Everybody: Pieter says he has minimal time and doesn't know the sailing codes that well. Who else wants to take a crack at it?

Pieter: bad news is that if nobody else steps up, you got volunteered ... even if it takes 5 years. I'm no programmer ... I can work through this stuff in conversation, but if it involves changing more than a few stats, I can't turn it into functional code.
 
Yes, let's forget about that scurvy thing for now and get back to the topic at hand.
I'd like to work on this, but I can't any time soon. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
are you going to type 'scurvy' correctly any time soon, pieter? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> i had only heard a whisper about M&B, nothing more. anyway, on the actual topic (whatever that may be right now):

couch captain charles (CCC) wrote the code for directsail. maybe he'll be some help. i think that 'wounded' should be classified as 'disabled', to make it a bit more practical to use in more instances. what i prefer is having the defence skill reflect medical training, and the ship defence abilities reflect the possibilities of casualties.
 
[Sidebar] M&B and PoTC/Build Mod are peas in a pod. If you like one, you'll like the other. Both are so close to being real classics in terms of nitty gritty gameplay but neither has a great, overarching, game structure and both handle "reality" in similar ways. Main character, named supporting NPCs (with inventories and stats like the player) and a cast of extras (crew or troops). Both hinge on a glorious combat mechanic. PoTC/Build Mod has the ships and the sea. M&B has lovely feudal skirmish battles on random 3D maps. Both have rudimentary political factions, trading and economic models as well but it's the evocative tactical clashes that keep you going through the strategic engine not so much the other way around yet.[/Sidebar]
 
What does DirectSail have to do with it? I haven't heard from CCC in a while. I suppose he'll be back though. Some time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
Sorry about those typos; fixed them now. BAD Pieter! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/boom.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":boom" border="0" alt="boom.gif" />
 
well, directsail is what those 'sail ho' messages are connected with, are they not?
 
"Sail ho"? We're talking about worldmaps and "sail to", but not "sail ho". <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
i'm sure you mentioned it once. typo? meh, probably my mistake. still, now that i think of it, the distances you get after a 'sail ho' encounter are pretty much right. how about using those?
 
If we could make DirectSail a proper replacement for map sailing, we could go as far as having DirectSail as ordinary way of sailing and just having the map for people who like an arcade-like quick game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />
 
CCC's Direct Sail mod needs to be changed a little further so no Sail Ho messages any more.
What i mean by that is making all islands load at once somehow and making those encounters ALOT more realistic so you'll be able to see a ship at 5000? 10000? 50000? yards away. And also you'll need a map in game where you can see islands and your current location plus other ships nearby. That would make REAL sailing alot easier because yesterday when i played the game again i started to sail to direction of other island from pirate island and i sailed and sailed and somehow i ended up back at that pirate island where i started me journey <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />
that was WIERD! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
And that leaves me to wonder how the hell that happend. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

[Off Topic]
Ron ..how do you turn off this wierd FOV effect in Mount & Blade? It annoys me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
[Off Topic]
 
I with "proper replacement", I meant that should functonally work just as well as the worldmap, so that includes crew payment, voyage length, quests, etc. That will need some work still. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
Aye ..indeed those should be also in the addon list of Direct Sail mod, Pieter. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=230178:date=Jan 1 2008, 09:26 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Jan 1 2008, 09:26 PM) [snapback]230178[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. All ranges on sail-to or minimum opening ranges of battles should be greatly increased. Right now you start at musket-shot (200 yards).
It needs to be 2000 yards at least, preferably 3000. "Sail-to" and world map needs to be disabled within that range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Gee, I guess you haven't figured out how to come out of "map mode" at about 1000 yards form the enemy, which is more than enough time to set up an attack.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purpose: to eliminate slow ships easily catching fast ones just because they appear on top of each other. To give room to maneuver before cannonballs start flying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The game already has settings to prevent slower ships from catching faster ones.
#define SAILTO_MIN_SPEEDRATIO and #define SAILTO_MIN_DISTANCE already take care of this.

And if a player chooses not to use those settings, or play in arcade mode, where do we come off telling them that they can't?

<!--quoteo(post=231009:date=Jan 3 2008, 07:38 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Jan 3 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]231009[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Not sure how to change the worldmap engagement distance, since it depends on where you engage the enemy on the worldmap. We might be able to get the "Sail ho" screen triggered earlier, though I do not know how to. At least not yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess if we can get this, then it will make it easier for those who haven't figured out how to come out of "map mode" at about 1000 yards. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also: If the distances are increased, the distance at which you can't go to the worldmap must be increased as well. That would make escaping much harder, especially in cases such as the escape from Oxbay with the Corvette you steal from the French during the main quest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm surprised that you forgot that 2000 to 3000 yards more than covers all stock sized islands and the waters around them.
Doing this prevents players form going to map from any island with emeny ships in port or even on the opposit side of the island, or anywhere near them.
Remember the fiasco we had when:
#define MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER 500.0
was set to 1000?
Go jack it up to 2000 or 3000, this time if you want.
Just don't expect me to answer posts about the great "<b>sea to map mode bug</b>"!
 
<!--quoteo(post=231161:date=Jan 3 2008, 08:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Jan 3 2008, 08:15 PM) [snapback]231161[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm surprised that you forgot that 2000 to 3000 yards more than covers all stock sized islands and the waters around them.
Doing this prevents players form going to map from any island with emeny ships in port or even on the opposit side of the island, or anywhere near them.
Remember the fiasco we had when:
#define MIN_ENEMY_DISTANCE_TO_DISABLE_MAP_ENTER 500.0
was set to 1000?
Go jack it up to 2000 or 3000, this time if you want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->VERY good point. That wasn't really a success... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
i've had that bug with QC once myself. that was some very wonky navigating. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> the greatest distance at which you can see a ship right now before it becomes too tiny is approx. 3000 yards, and then you have to be very lucky to spot it. i'm talking about a sloop here. a manowar can be seen as far as the limit of your view (you know, the point where the island starts dissapearing) and ships like a fleut or bigger as well. i kinda enjoy the navigational dance, especially when i have no navigational equipment whatsoever. i'm always in a bit of a jam when i finally arrive at the island but can't see it, so i've got no idea where i'm supposed to be going. and then there's the factor of a headwind being there, so you have to tack. chances are you'll miss the thing altogether. fortunately, just going in a straight line usually gets you where you want to go.

this reminds me of something else:

fog isn't as effective as it's supposed to be at the moment. normally, you shoudl only notice an obstacle hidden in the fog when you're almost there. now, due to a graphical glitch, you can always see either the masts of the ship, or the coastline of the island. this makes it a lot less interesting than it could be.
 
The bug with going to map mode was before we had the higher levels of accelerate time. As a result, you could be trapped for a very long time waiting to manually sail away from port or whatever. With higher time compression, you should not be seriously inconvenienced for very long... if the exit is clear, at high time compression you should be able to zip right out in less than a couple of minutes real time. If the exit is not clear, well, then we want players to have to out-shoot or out-maneuver the hostiles - that's part of the point.

We know about coming off of the map at distance. I'm talking about making that standard. New default settings for the Min_sailto and whatever ... that's part of it. Just got to get them all lined up.

On that note, the default islands are kind of freaky. On the world map, they appear to be quite a few miles across. In the sailing screen, the whole island is maybe 1000 yards across ... it seems to actually get bigger when you cross it by foot. Hopefully, if somebody ever gets the new islands and such properly in place, we can get rid of some of that effect. But that too is another project.
 
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