Mod Release Open Sea Mod and Realism Settings

[Pieter Boelen]

Can't go watching any videos now; stuck with slow internet for four months.

 

[stljeffbb]

Can't go watching any videos now; stuck with slow internet for four months.

:sad

Sorry to hear Pieter you cannot even watch a movie with your internet...

I must admit I cannot remember offhand what navigation was like in Sea Dogs....I still have my (large) box copy sitting on my shelf, gently collecting dust....

Some good news, I was able to find Tortuga in the Worldmap mode and then using "sail to"....it took over an hour of gametime, so I was not too close to it....

Jeff

 

[Thagarr]

Sorry Pieter, I forgot you were Internet challenged at the moment. I didn't have a whole lot of time to give you a detailed description as I was headed off to work. I am home now, so I will try and be a bit more detailed. As you can see from the screen shot below, it was designed to give the appearance of a chart, at first the chart was blank and then it slowly revealed islands and features as you sailed past them. Kind of like a simplistic fog of war. The only indication of another ship in your area was a pop up( and voice over saying Ship Ahoy!) with a description of the vessel or vessels your lookout was seeing. The encounters were of course just randomized in the code, they could have done a much better job with the encounters, but took the quick way out. This did have the effect of making it feel a lot more like you were actually aboard a ship and not just playing an arcade game! I think you really loose a lot of that feeling with the world map overview and the toy boats.

Personally, I would have loved to have seen a lot more detailed chart navigation. Having to actually learn how to navigate, or at least how to actually plot a course on a chart, would go a lot farther in drawing you into the game.

The original B-17 - The Mighty Eighth is a great example of this! You actually had to plot your course and calculate just when you would be over your target for a successful bomb run. You also had to calculate your fuel, and that could change depending on the damage you took from fighters. There were also "arcade" options, but you could literally fly a complete mission from engine start and takeoff, all the way through landing back at your home base very realistically. It was so detailed, at the time, I think if you had put me in the cockpit of a B-17, I could have easily started the engines and at least got it started taxing down the runway, if not even actually take off. You actually HAD to read the manual to be able to play that game, that was the best copy protection ever in my opinion! I know I am just dreaming, we are not likely to see that kind of detail in a game again anytime soon, but that is the kind of detail I want to see in a pirate game!

 

[Black Bart]

Thanks for the link, however, it seems to go to an error code.....I would very much like to see what you swathe about!

Regards,

Jeff

The link Black Bart provided goes to the modders forum. You are not a modder yet, so you get an error.

If you are using the same XP system as Black Bart, then you might understand what he was doing. I use the auto system and had no ideer what he was talking about as I got wildly different results.

Ah, that is frustrating! Can we make Jeff a modder, as he seems to be modding the files? Then he can examine the 'swathes' of info in my link(and maybe be able to mod quicker/better?). I won't have time for a huge amount of modding currently, so the more the merrier and there are still massive balance issues(as of patch 7 wip beta 1) that i suspect are still in the build, and although Pieter did impliment some of the nerfing of XP during direct sail i suspect it still needs some more work on.

@Hylie, even in the rpg leveling system that you use, it was pretty unbalanced in relation to how your ships officers leveled(or not as was mostly the case) in relation to the player character. In short in the original game leveling system(where you hand pick the skill level ups) the default game before my tweaks would make you uber powerfull very quickly in the game(much due to the frequency and amount of XP given during direct sailing). Some nerfs have since been put in by Pieter, but i don't think he had the time to look in all the corners i did on this?

In the rpg leveling system you use, the code doesn't seem fully finished in relation to the ships officers and the XP they recieve, so you can play for ages and not develope high level ships officers in the rpg leveling system. You can simply buy the newer ones with the better skills, but it is not that easy to fully develope officers that start at a low level. So you lose an element of 'growing together' in relation to your ships officers, which is a shame, and you get a stronger sense of that in the default leveling system.

Somewhere there should be a happy medium that both systems(rpg and default) converge on. As it is both offer wildly different game play in relation to XP/Leveling, and i'd argue, not that well balanced in terms of char progression as player reward for hours put in the game(one is too quick for the player char(default system), the other too slow re the officers(rpg system). That is what most of my efforts in this area were trying to address.

If jeff can not get modding status would it be possible to pull that thread of mine into a more accessable forum? When i wrote it up, i didn't think of the aspect of it being locked out for some people!

Cheers and at them me harties :ixi

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yes, the flyboy games got pretty detailed. For over a year I had a bad elbow because one had to twist the joystick hard on takeoff in a ME-109. Figuring the fuel load and weapons load was a big part of it.

POTC has a similar but very simplified system in that the ship's duration is measured in months, not hours. Having smaller islands would make navigation more precise it sounds like.

I'm wondering how the revised time scale would affect timed trade missions? Could one sail from Havana to Sao Jorge in one month?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I added Jeff to the Modders group, so he can access the POTC Modding forum now.

I do think the worldmap in PotC looks a whole lot better since we did away with those toy ships!

 

[Thagarr]

I agree Pieter, the toy boats were really pathetic! A lot of the "console" interface has been changed in the Mod as well and has really improved the overall look of the game.

Congratulations on the promotion Jeff, excellent work mate!

 

[stljeffbb]

I agree Pieter, the toy boats were really pathetic! A lot of the "console" interface has been changed in the Mod as well and has really improved the overall look of the game.

Congratulations on the promotion Jeff, excellent work mate!

Sweet! Thanks Pieter, Thagarr, and everyone else...OT, by the way Thagarr, do you have an opinion on North American runestones (noticing you are a "Viking Raider")? I've been to the Kensington, Minnesota site, but I have to admit I'm not quite ready to accept most NA Viking artifacts as real (with the exception of the Kingittorsuaq Runestone, Lancey Meadows in Newfoundland, and some other stuff)...feel free to PM me (or however it works here) if you like.

@ Hylie Pistoff...

Havana to Sao Jorge

...I have not played this far....is there a trade mission to Sao Jorge in the Azores?!? Or was there another Portugese colony in the Caribbean named Sao Jorge? To answer your question generically, you probably can make it in a month from, say, San Salvador to Camahogne (Early Explorers timeframe) in Directsail as PR to SD is about twelve to twenty hours in Appretince/Arcade/TIMESCALAR_SEA = 15/WDM_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE = 60...so that might make it about twenrty-one to twenty-eight days with less wind from mentioned disparate locations....of course, all of this map stuff will need testers...

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Lessee. Havana, Cuba to Sao Jorge, Grenada ( or Le Grenade) is about as long of a run as one can make except for the Havana to Antigua run. As it is now those runs are pretty tight and one needs fast ships and luck.

It's obvious I haven't played the early time period in quite a while.

 

[Thagarr]

.OT, by the way Thagarr, do you have an opinion on North American runestones (noticing you are a "Viking Raider")? I've been to the Kensington, Minnesota site, but I have to admit I'm not quite ready to accept most NA Viking artifacts as real (with the exception of the Kingittorsuaq Runestone, Lancey Meadows in Newfoundland, and some other stuff)...feel free to PM me (or however it works here) if you like

90 percent of what we end up discussing around here is usually off topic, we do occasionally throw in a good 5 or 10 % to try and keep it somewhat legit! :

Aye mate, I have always been fascinated by Vikings! Most people I run into think they were simply mindless savages, the truth though is very different! A lot of people around hear have heard me go off on a tangent about that before, so I will avoid doing so here. I will however point you to an old topic from a couple of years ago that I think sums it all up nicely. Have a read through THIS THREAD if your curious.

About those Viking runes in Minnesota, I am a bit skeptical myself. There are also runes in Oklahoma that are purported to be Viking in origin. Although I have never had the chance to see either of them in person. It is obvious to me though, after years of my own amateur(amateurish?) research, that they did travel farther inland and farther south than Newfoundland. Vinland, for instance, may have actually been somewhere in upstate New York, Newfoundland just doesn't quite match the description in the Saga's. Of course some of that could just be attributed to a change in climate over almost 1000 years. One thing is certain, their longboats were more than capable of making quick journeys down inland rivers and lakes, and could have easily reached the Great Lakes or even farther. I have even seen rumors that Vikings actually reached South Florida and the Gulf, but I have never seen any evidence to back up those claims.

 

[stljeffbb]

I've figured out the Tortuga situation....kind of a "duh" moment as Tortuga is right across from the large island of Hispaniola

ops

I will have to fix it on the map, but it will not matter as I need to fix many of the islands placements....also, I plan on shaving the icon down to 1/4 it's current size.....not that any real sailor would use the static map icon....lol....

Jeff

 

[stljeffbb]

Trying not to post too much, but when I tried to edit my most recent post, got a key mismatch error.....

Note to self and others interested....found static map icon scale (it is cool as that it takes your actual ship pic and shrinks it to size!) in \Bethesda Softworks\Pirates of the Caribbean\PROGRAM\INTERFACE in the file map.c

It is the "int picScale" function....it was also located in the a_map.c file, but that one does not work for some reason...

		// PB: Sextant and Chronometer -->
bool ShowPosition = DISPLAY_MAP_POSITION;
if(item_id == "map" && CheckCharacterItem(chm,"clock2") == true && CheckCharacterItem(chm,"sextant") == true) ShowPosition = true;
if(ShowPosition)
{
arMap.poz.X = makefloat(stf(worldMap.playerShipX)/stf(arMap.map_to_sea_scale.x));
arMap.poz.Y = makefloat(stf(worldMap.playerShipZ)/stf(arMap.map_to_sea_scale.y));

int fakeShipPosX = makeint(stf(arMap.X) - stf(arMap.poz.X));
int fakeShipPosY = makeint(stf(arMap.Y) + stf(arMap.poz.Y));

ref shipRef = GetShipByType(GetCharacterShipType(chm));
aref arship; makearef(arship, chm.ship);
string texGroupName = GetShipTextureName(sti(shipRef.index));
string texName = GetShipPicName(sti(shipRef.index));
int picScale = 3; // was 9 stljeffbb Jan 13 2012

CreateImage("SHIP", texGroupName, texName, makeint(fakeShipPosX-picScale), makeint(fakeShipPosY-picScale), makeint(fakeShipPosX+picScale), makeint(fakeShipPosY+picScale));
SetPictureBlind("SHIP",true,minBlindColor,maxBlindColor);
}
// PB: Sextant and Chronometer <--

EDIT: Hmmm....changing the icon scale also changes the map scale, and my "even smaller than little" ship icon ends up off the map.....more testing ahead!

EDIT TWO: ....and static map font size here (also in map.c):

		aref arLabels; makearef(arLabels, arMap.labels);
num_labels = GetAttributesNum(arLabels);
for (n = 0; n < num_labels; n++) {
aref arlbl = GetAttributeN(arLabels, n);
if (CheckAttribute(arlbl, "ShowTownNation")) {
SetTownFlagImage(arlbl.ShowTownNation, sti(arlbl.pos.x), sti(arlbl.pos.y));
CreateString(true, "label_" + (n + 1), arlbl.label, "seadogs_small", COLOR_NORMAL, 

sti(arlbl.pos.x) + 20, sti(arlbl.pos.y), SCRIPT_ALIGN_LEFT, 0.7);
} else {
CreateString(true, "label_" + (n + 1), arlbl.label, "seadogs_small", COLOR_NORMAL, 

sti(arlbl.pos.x), sti(arlbl.pos.y), SCRIPT_ALIGN_LEFT, 0.7);

The 0.7 represents the font size....wheeeee!

EDIT THREE: .....and the position of the island names on the static map can be found in \Bethesda Softworks\Pirates of the Caribbean\PROGRAM\ITEMS in the initItems.c file

 

[stljeffbb]

Hello everyone....OK, I'm nearly finished enough to release a mod that allows more open sea sailing while using direct sail!

First off, this mod is of course built upon the back of many mods already, including Directsail and others. I'm still doing some final testing...there is a fair bit of weirdness when combining Directsail and Worldmap sailing, and I'm going suggest doing either one or the other...however, even if a player determines to do both, it is not a game breaker; your ship might end up where you do not expect it, but not all that far from where you think it would be, and ultimately not too hard to get back on track. With that said, I have looked at some of Black Bart's thread on XP and levels and I have modified the XP and levels level (sailing) to make it much more difficult to obtain experience, and what I currently feel is right in line with the other skills.

So, with that said, I'm hoping for beta testers! The map will still be "ugly", however, once we agree on the final properties (if any; this assumes said mod will go into build 14, or that there will be enough interest), it will not be too difficult for me to clean it up...the old Microsoft PhotoDraw 2.0 program I use does a nice job of making cut-and-paste items available to shuffle around in their .mix format, so I will keep the old map, but then just "fix" the spots where the islands end up.

I will do my best to get the mod done by tomorrow, but if I do not, it might take me into next weekend as I have quite a busy week coming up....

Regards,

Jeff

 

[Thagarr]

Take your time mate, the best thing about modding is your under no time limits, except the ones you set for yourself. I don't know if I will be able to make any time to playtest it myself, I am working overtime at the moment and won't have a lot of free time again for a while, but I will see what I can do.

 

[stljeffbb]

Take your time mate, the best thing about modding is your under no time limits, except the ones you set for yourself. I don't know if I will be able to make any time to playtest it myself, I am working overtime at the moment and won't have a lot of free time again for a while, but I will see what I can do.

Hello Thagarr....ha ha, well, my wife is very pregnant, and it could happen anytime now, so I'm trying to get something done before that happens...believe it or not, based on our parenting choices, I should still have some time to devote to PotC (as it will be a good diversion from real life), but it probably (lol) not be as much as it is right now, hence my desire to get it done...

Regards,

Jeff

 

[Thagarr]

Congrats mate, sounds like you have some busy days ahead indeed!

 

[stljeffbb]

Congrats mate, sounds like you have some busy days ahead indeed!

@Thagarr...thanks mate!

...and woohoo, Open Sea Mod v.0.1 for Directsail and PotC has been posted, awaiting approval!



Jeff

 

[Black Bart]

Great news all round And thanks Pieter for the swift modders-privileges-on thing for Jeff

@Jeff, i'm not sure when i will next do some playtesting, but i'll endevour to download and have a look through the files you have submitted(where are they btw? on the FTP?). In terms of playtesting, it requires a lot of time sadly, there is no substitute, just keep at it and the more you can sink into it the better the results(i can't tell you how many game restart hours i've logged for the beta 1 later stages! hundreds of hours probably!). Anyway i'm really glad you are here to be able to carry on this process of game balance :nk

OFF TOPIC: As an aside the viking tradition goes back a longway, i certainly believe they got to the america's first, and in general we are finding out that many peoples of the past travelled further and had trade links with places we assume their technology wouldn't let them. The vikings were pretty sophisticated in their ship and navigation techniques by ancient world standards. I read the elder futhark of runic systems(a 24 rune system), and i used to keep an eye out for them during my world travels - the ones at the Pyramids are quite fun 'Knud woz here!' or something like that i seem to remember! We haven't changed much down the centuries or millenia really

 

[stljeffbb]

Great news all round And thanks Pieter for the swift modders-privileges-on thing for Jeff

@Jeff, i'm not sure when i will next do some playtesting, but i'll endevour to download and have a look through the files you have submitted(where are they btw? on the FTP?). In terms of playtesting, it requires a lot of time sadly, there is no substitute, just keep at it and the more you can sink into it the better the results(i can't tell you how many game restart hours i've logged for the beta 1 later stages! hundreds of hours probably!). Anyway i'm really glad you are here to be able to carry on this process of game balance :nk

OFF TOPIC: As an aside the viking tradition goes back a longway, i certainly believe they got to the america's first, and in general we are finding out that many peoples of the past travelled further and had trade links with places we assume their technology wouldn't let them. The vikings were pretty sophisticated in their ship and navigation techniques by ancient world standards. I read the elder futhark of runic systems(a 24 rune system), and i used to keep an eye out for them during my world travels - the ones at the Pyramids are quite fun 'Knud woz here!' or something like that i seem to remember! We haven't changed much down the centuries or millenia really

First, @ Thagarr, Black Bart, and others interested in vikings and the like: I've been poking around the internet n such, and it seems there are some Anglo-Saxon runes located near Kansas City, Missouri! Here is a link to a news article...now, I definitely feel (not sure) that the Scandanavians could have readily explored much more than we give them credit for, however on the other hand, people are very creative, and unfortunately many hoaxes are also possible by those who feel they must be part of something bigger than themselves...well, we probably all want that in one way or another, but sometimes folks lose sight of integreity...with that said, I agree with BB that, indeed, we are not far away at all from our tribal roots, whether or not we wish to acknowledge it! More on this later, but my laptop battery is dying......

@ Black Bart......yes, I totally hear you on the reload thing....I've already racked up a bunch just in my short time....I uploaded the mod here in the "generic" PotC area....same place where my "slightly better moon" mod is....gotta go!

Jeff

 

[Hylie Pistof]

You postit, I will play with it. There are a couple of other who are wandering around who should give it a try.

Question: You play in arcade mode and I play in realistic mode. Will that make much difference? What travel times should I be looking for?

I normally bounce between direct sail and world map, and finding ones self far from where you thought you were is normal.

EDIT: I just looked and found your new moon, but did not find your Open Sea Mod V1. Will check back periodically. Oh. New game required?