• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Serious Build Bugfinding Effort

Pieter Boelen

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer
Administrator
Storm Modder
Hearts of Oak Donator
The Builds seem to have been becoming increasingly unstable, especially with the Build 14 Alpha 7 and Alpha 7 Plus versions. Not to mention my current personal testversion which is so buggy I couldn't possibly think to release it to the public. Therefore it is about time to do something serious about it. Not random messing around, but a focused bughunting effort by a dedicated bunch of people.

The idea is to take a stablish game version (eg Build 13 Full), then add all subsequent mods on top one by one, testing with the addition of each new batch of mods. That way we would find out which mods cause which bugs and will hopefully allow us to pinpoint what is wrong.

Probably we should start with testing Build 13 Full, then Update 3 to make sure these game versions work as well as they should. Then we will add the newer mods in order of chance that they might cause bugs. So first we would then add ships, characters and new locations. Second it will be the quest. Then it'll be the other mods.

It might help if various bugtesters focus on different aspects of the game to make sure we cover as much ground as possible in as short an amount of time as possible. Considering that we want to get this whole thing done on a relatively short notice, we will probably need to make a new test version every couple of days or every week.

Everybody is welcome to join in, even if you can't be as dedicated as everybody. All testing is welcome.

<b>We will need the following:</b>
1) A person to make the test versions
2) Several people willing to spend their time to playtest the various test versions
3) Ideas on how to make this effort work as effectively, quickly and good as possible

So please post here if you want to join the bugfinding team or if you have any questions, comments and suggestions.
 
I installed today Build 13. So this week-end, I can start playing this version. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Thanks a lot. I sent Pirate_KK a PM about this effort, because after all what we are trying to do is to help him make the most stable next game version as possible. Therefore his input on how we can best help him would be required, I think.
 
Like I said earlier, I can jump in on the testing part.

So far, the B13 full has been rock solid since changing that worldmap.c thingy. I got to the Black Pearl last night without a single CTD, so at least that's a god sign. Dunno what's different between the <b>Full</b> and <b>Final</b> versions tho.
 
I am happy to help as well. I have all versions on my machine.
I was also a professional programmer writing programs for industry (regrettably not in POTC C/C+ variant though) mainly for material control but very complicated.

For what it is worth I would suggest the following: I do not want to offend anyone with these comments, and put them forward as a suggestion.

I would agree with Pieter's plan with one exception:
I would examine the existing quests and add the new quests first, for four reasons:
1./ Build 13 was pretty stable so in theory will have lesser bugs to find as quests are added, other than those in the quests themselves.
2./ That it is the primary purpose of the game, to start, have the adventure and achieve a successful conclusion.
(I know there are some players who like the open ended game, but I believe most players want to finish the story/stories first. (job satisfaction))
3./ Publicity - a fully working game with less features, is I believe, more attractive to new users and potential modders than lots of features and not much to do with them.
4./ The bugs in this area I think will be easier to find and give us more confidence and experience as individuals, and as a group, as we proceed.

The ancillary bugs (those caused by ships, locations, dialog etc.) will be cleared during this process at the 13 level, so additional items/functions added later should be easier to isolate.
Plus we can do some simple housekeeping (correcting/adding missing dialog etc.) thereby improving the general quality of the game as we progress.
When writing quests, I have noted that land locations can give the CTD (crash to desktop) when landing from the sea, which are usually part of the quest rather than a program function.

That is just my opinion, and I am quite willing to go along with what ever plan is finally decided on.
 
Agreed. But I aren't going to test, I haven't got any time at all outside the vacations. And if I HAVE got time I rather make mods meself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
I think we should test in the following order:
1) Build 13 Full
2) Build 13 Final OR Build 13 + Update 3 (this is essentially the same)
3) Additional locations + characters + ships + quests
4) Seperate other mods

So I agree we should do the quest testing early on in the testing process. But for some of the quests, we also need to add the new ships, locations and characters because these are used in the quests. Some are not used, but we can add those in the first test version anyway. I don't think these things will cause many major and complicated bugs. It's probably the OTHER mods that cause the main bugs. But when we have got a Build 13 + the things mentioned in "3" stable, we might already release it as Build 13.1.

I think we should exclude the main quest rewrite and CotBP quest, because these are not finished yet. Unless we can get a testversion of those quests done before we start on stage 3 of the bug hunt. Would that be possible, Short Jack Gold and Bartolomeu o Portugues?

<!--quoteo(post=218949:date=Oct 26 2007, 12:38 AM:name=Shingen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shingen @ Oct 26 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]218949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So far, the B13 full has been rock solid since changing that worldmap.c thingy. I got to the Black Pearl last night without a single CTD, so at least that's a god sign. Dunno what's different between the <b>Full</b> and <b>Final</b> versions tho.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The only difference is that Build 13 Final has Update 3 included and Build 13 Full does not. But installing Build 13 + Update 3 gives the same result as installing Build 13 Final.

<!--quoteo(post=218979:date=Oct 26 2007, 09:45 AM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thomas the Terror @ Oct 26 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]218979[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if I HAVE got time I rather make mods meself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Very true. We don't want to stop modding just because we're testing. Preferrably we make up a testing team consisting of mostly non-modders so that the modders can continue their modding. Of course it would help to have some testers with some coding experience in the bugfinding team, because that could help in tracking down them bugs. But we don't want to halt our modding. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=218982:date=Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]218982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we should test in the following order:
1) Build 13 Full
2) Build 13 Final OR Build 13 + Update 3 (this is essentially the same)
3) Additional locations + characters + ships + quests
4) Seperate other mods<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds very good to me. I think a lot of "housekeeping" can be done in the early levels as well. I will volunteer for the dialog if that is agreeable to everyone.

<!--quoteo(post=218982:date=Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]218982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I agree we should do the quest testing early on in the testing process ...... But when we have got a Build 13 + the things mentioned in "3" stable, we might already release it as Build 13.1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Might I suggest we rename "the mod in progress at this level" to "Sparrow's Search" (We will be searching for bugs so it is a play on words) - It will define it as different and it will lessen the confusion over build numbers?

<!--quoteo(post=218982:date=Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]218982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we should exclude the main quest rewrite and CotBP quest, because these are not finished yet. Unless we can get a testversion of those quests done before we start on stage 3 of the bug hunt. Would that be possible, Short Jack Gold and Bartolomeu o Portugues?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Bartolomeu o Portugues has completed his parts. I have done my part as well and am now merging the characters that we have both used individually to make them compatible in the game. Then test playing and "what if's". So should be complete next week.

<!--quoteo(post=218982:date=Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 26 2007, 07:42 AM) [snapback]218982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We don't want to stop modding just because we're testing. Preferrably we make up a testing team consisting of mostly non-modders so that the modders can continue their modding. Of course it would help to have some testers with some coding experience in the bugfinding team, because that could help in tracking down them bugs. But we don't want to halt our modding. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
 
Very well. In that case we can test Build 13 and Build 13 Update 3 until you're done with the main quest rewrite. After that I will compile the next test version including the quests, ships, characters and locations. Once that's done, we can test these, improve these, fix these and do what you call "housekeeping". Sounds good to me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />  G'day mates! I love your new way of trying to fix things and have been complaining about it for a long time, as Pieter well knows! I'm no help with any programming and used to report bugs suggesting to fix them first, but got abused instead, not saying by whom!
I stopped playing the game for the very reason, but can tell you that Build 13 is not bad exept for the Build addon, which is a load of crap and only adds bugs to the game! Don't get me wrong, but did enjoy my time. When Pieter left, things got worse and than died!
Hope things get moving again! Cheers and wish you luck with trying to fix things! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
........Now I understand why CyberOps stopped fixing AoP........To many add to it people and no fixers!!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
Greetings and Salutations! I am new to this forum and this game, but I am very early into my first run through using Build 13 Final, and would be willing to post bugs and issues I come across as I go, if that would be of any help.
 
That most certainly would be of some help. Much appreciated. And welcome to the forum, by the way! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
Excellent start - don't you just love it when a plan comes together <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

Hold those thoughts gentlemen - we need Pieter to determine how the bugs should be reported. He is managing the project.

He may suggest the normal bug list or a separate format perhaps.

He is getting his beauty sleep at the moment <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> but I am sure will direct us shortly. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" /> in his usual sweet way (joke) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Now - to be sure - you are all running Build 13 full - right ? (don't need an answer to this - just don't want us to confuse each other)
Please re-read the previous posts on the agreed order of testing to be sure where you are (We will be asking questions later <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" /> ) (another joke)
 
We could do two things:
1) Make a seperate forum thread for each phase
2) Post the bugs on the Bug Tracker

Of course the Bug Tracker allows for a better overview, but it could make things a bit decentralized and confusing. Any preferences?
 
<!--quoteo(post=218982:date=Oct 26 2007, 01:42 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 26 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]218982[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we should test in the following order:
1) Build 13 Full
2) Build 13 Final OR Build 13 + Update 3 (this is essentially the same)
3) Additional locations + characters + ships + quests
4) Seperate other mods

So I agree we should do the quest testing early on in the testing process. But for some of the quests, we also need to add the new ships, locations and characters because these are used in the quests. Some are not used, but we can add those in the first test version anyway. I don't think these things will cause many major and complicated bugs. It's probably the OTHER mods that cause the main bugs. But when we have got a Build 13 + the things mentioned in "3" stable, we might already release it as Build 13.1.

I think we should exclude the main quest rewrite and CotBP quest, because these are not finished yet. Unless we can get a testversion of those quests done before we start on stage 3 of the bug hunt. Would that be possible, Short Jack Gold and Bartolomeu o Portugues?

<!--quoteo(post=218949:date=Oct 26 2007, 12:38 AM:name=Shingen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shingen @ Oct 26 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]218949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So far, the B13 full has been rock solid since changing that worldmap.c thingy. I got to the Black Pearl last night without a single CTD, so at least that's a god sign. Dunno what's different between the <b>Full</b> and <b>Final</b> versions tho.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The only difference is that Build 13 Final has Update 3 included and Build 13 Full does not. But installing Build 13 + Update 3 gives the same result as installing Build 13 Final.

<!--quoteo(post=218979:date=Oct 26 2007, 09:45 AM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thomas the Terror @ Oct 26 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]218979[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if I HAVE got time I rather make mods meself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Very true. We don't want to stop modding just because we're testing. Preferrably we make up a testing team consisting of mostly non-modders so that the modders can continue their modding. Of course it would help to have some testers with some coding experience in the bugfinding team, because that could help in tracking down them bugs. But we don't want to halt our modding. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is how I always dreamed it should be. If I don´t have the time for it, I will take the time. Count me in as a tester.
I hope the bugfixers will tell us what to test and in what environment the bug should be tested in order to isolate and fix the problems one by one.
I can´t tell you wether we should use the bugtracker or a dedicated thread called "Sparrow´s Search" to report the testing, I think thats up to you and how you find it most convenient to work and keep an overview, Pieter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Installing the original PotC with Build 13 Full on top, as agreed so far...
 
<!--quoteo(post=219085:date=Oct 27 2007, 06:00 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 27 2007, 06:00 AM) [snapback]219085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We could do two things:
1) Make a seperate forum thread for each phase
2) Post the bugs on the Bug Tracker

Of course the Bug Tracker allows for a better overview, but it could make things a bit decentralized and confusing. Any preferences?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A separate forum for each phase would get my vote
(It would make it easier to find specifics, plus, as we go forward, enable us to look back at previous and possibly similar issues)
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <!--quoteo(post=219085:date=Oct 27 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 27 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]219085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We could do two things:
1) Make a seperate forum thread for each phase
2) Post the bugs on the Bug Tracker

Of course the Bug Tracker allows for a better overview, but it could make things a bit decentralized and confusing. Any preferences?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> A separate thread for each fase sounds reasonable to me... though I'd be happy to post any error logs...

... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> ... Whatever is convenient in terms of the process as you feel it should be ...

I'm "ship shape" awaiting your decision!

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top