Serious Build Bugfinding Effort

kevinatlanta · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>To Pieter and Kevin.

Kevin I sent you a personal message yesterday outlining the suggested plan - did you not get it? (Pieter I also copied you)</div>

I didn't get it. If you saved a copy in SENT items, could you resend it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>It is indeed intended to Change the name at each stage of the project to prevent duplication and unnecessary rework, also allowing us to check back on specifics as the program progresses.
I have not laid out the complete plan because it will depend on what we find at each stage and we must be prepared to modify our approach accordingly.
I have only "suggested" an end point for testing at the moment. This also was deliberate. We need to move to the next level (stage) as soon as practicable. I don't want this project going on for months as players will get disinterested, which is why I have taken the approach that I have, which is the "Big Hammer" at the beginning (everyone doing the same thing) to prove the general stability of the build at this level.
We have testers at different levels and routes through the game, which although seemingly random will in fact follow the laws of probability.
If there is a major flaw - the majority of them will hit it. Our experience with 14.7 bears this out. I don't think that there is a major flaw in 13. However, we owe it to everyone to check.

We only have a limited number of testers and I don't want to dispirit them with repetitive unnecessary testing.
Past history has already indicated the stability of Build 13 full with occasional queries versus 13 plus update 3.
We are only one day into testing at the moment so, as confident as I am that we will in fact confirm this stability, we need to give the testers longer to prove or disprove the point.
After that we need the testers to play 13 Final through to completion to isolate any further minor bugs.</div>

Agreed, although my thoughts are that Build 13.3 is the most stable version - and Build 13 Final might be a little less stable. Note that I haven't played Build 13 Final, only Build 13.3, so my thoughts are derived from comments on the forums re: Build 13 Final.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Assuming this stability to be correct, then it is my intention to add quests (which will be easier to de-bug) and I am willing to de-bug these plus the dialog.
Re-test the game to find the bugs these may create, or have created. That will take a while and we don't have that many testers, so I agree that specific testers should play specific quests at this point.</div>

My thought here is that if we add the quests before adding the upgraded islands, we will have to perform the same testing twice. Don't most of the quests use lots of locators on the island locations and can't those cause bugs? And don't the quests have to be updated to match the new islands? However, I'll defer to you since I haven't added any quests of my own yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>As a side project I intend to look at 13 full and 13 Final to try to determine the differences. If anyone else wants to do this as well (or already knows the differences) your input would be very welcome.</div>

I was going to try and do the same on Build 13 Final versus Build 13.3

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I am also trying to load Direct Sailing into the project as early as we can, as I think it gives a lot of game satisfaction to the majority of players.</div>

100% agreed that Direct Sail is the "wow factor" for me in the mods. And from what I've seen of CCC's mods, there should be very few, if any, bugs in that code. Fingers crossed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Then the real task begins - adding the various functions/items characters/ships (not in quests) as found in the various levels up to 14.x and I believe this is where we will find the main problems.
(I know I could be wrong here - but that is the feeling that I have).
However, adding them a step at a time, we will have a stable and playable game which is my ultimate aim.</div>

Agreed. I think the new functions/features are where we'll be "bugged" the most - and need the most "expert coder" help. I don't see new items/ships causing that much trouble (I'm pretty decent at finding and fixing these). New character additions always seem to need some tweaking (which thankfully I can normally do). Adding of the new decks and cabins has seemed to cause lots of headaches in the Build 14.x Alphas, so we can probably expect the same when/if we change these. However, if we can add one mod at a time, finding and fixing these bugs should be somewhat easier.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry to have rambled on here but you raised a lot of questions which needed clarifying. I hope I've done that.</div>

I think the main thing we need is to keep the interest of all the testers and quash as many bugs as possible, in a reasonable time frame, to get to a stable and playable version of the game. And I think the end point here is to have a stable and release-able Build Mod 14 ("New Horizons") - which I think everyone here wants.

Here's to some good testing sessions for everyone!

kevin

morgan terror · Oct 31, 2007

i'll just be reporting bugs as i come along. most likely bugs in the quests.

Pieter Boelen · Oct 31, 2007

I agree Build 13 + Update 3 should be tested for about a week or so. In theory Build 13 + Update 3 and Build 13 Final should yield the same results. I once made a sperate installation of both and then ran a WinMerge compare on them and the code was the same, so Build 13 + Update 3 should work as good as Build 13 Final. Perhaps when we're done with the Build 13 Full stage, we could have one half of the testers install Build 13 Final and the other half installing Update 3. Then let's see if there are any differences between the test results.

The differences between Build 13 Full and Build 13 Final are the modifications added by Update 3, because Build 13 Final = Build 13 Full + Update 3. To find out the changes in Update 3, just run a WinMerge compare and you will get to see all differences in the code.

I understand you two can't really do much thorough fixing, but that's what the modding team is for. Most likely when a major bug is introduced, we will know which mod it caused and then the person who wrote that mod will be notified and will hopefully be able to come up with a fix.

I think locations, ships, characters and quests should not cause any major problems. Furthermore, some of the quests require some of the new locations, characters and ships, so we migth as well add all of them straight away. So my suggestion would be to confirm Build 13 Final to work right, then we will make the first Sparrow Search test version, which should include everything that is not likely to cause bugs. I suspect the main bugs will be caused by mods like the "Walk on ship" mod, "New Decks" mod, rewritten corpsemode, added "Fast Action" actions, the "Capture Colonies" mod and other mods that thoroughly influence the game.

There is a Build 13 compatible version of the DirectSail mod on the FTP. I recently playtested the DirectSail mod in my Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP version and it worked just fine and without any trouble. This can safely and easily be added to the first Sparrow Search test version.

To KevinAtlanta: Since Short Jack Gold sent that PM to me as well, I still had it in my inbox so I now sent it to you.

Short Jack Gold · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Oct 31 2007, 04:46 AM) [snapback]219599[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>i'll just be reporting bugs as i come along. most likely bugs in the quests.</div>
Thanks Morgan - your knowledge of the quests as are currently in the game will be a great asset here.

Short Jack Gold · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevinAtlanta @ Oct 31 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]219594[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't get it. If you saved a copy in SENT items, could you resend it?</div>
I believe Pieter has copied you by now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevinAtlanta @ Oct 31 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]219594[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>My thought here is that if we add the quests before adding the upgraded islands, we will have to perform the same testing twice. Don't most of the quests use lots of locators on the island locations and can't those cause bugs? And don't the quests have to be updated to match the new islands? However, I'll defer to you since I haven't added any quests of my own yet.</div>
Most quests are location specific so we should only need to test once. New islands and their quests are an issue of their own, but in most cases follow the same rule. I don't expect too many issues there that we can't handle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevinAtlanta @ Oct 31 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]219594[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>As a side project I intend to look at 13 full and 13 Final to try to determine the differences. If anyone else wants to do this as well (or already knows the differences) your input would be very welcome.</div>

I was going to try and do the same on Build 13 Final versus Build 13.3</div>
I would be very grateful if you would do this please.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevinAtlanta @ Oct 31 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]219594[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I think the main thing we need is to keep the interest of all the testers and quash as many bugs as possible, in a reasonable time frame, to get to a stable and playable version of the game. And I think the end point here is to have a stable and release-able Build Mod 14 ("New Horizons") - which I think everyone here wants.

Here's to some good testing sessions for everyone!</div>
That gets my vote too !

Short Jack Gold · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 31 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]219609[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>... some of the quests require some of the new locations, characters and ships, so we might as well add all of them straight away. So my suggestion would be to confirm Build 13 Final to work right, then we will make the first Sparrow Search test version, which should include everything that is not likely to cause bugs.</div>
Totally agree - this will move us along much faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 31 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]219609[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I suspect the main bugs will be caused by mods like the "Walk on ship" mod, "New Decks" mod, rewritten corpsemode, added "Fast Action" actions, the "Capture Colonies" mod and other mods that thoroughly influence the game.</div>
Those are what I've been terming "functions".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 31 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]219609[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>There is a Build 13 compatible version of the DirectSail mod on the FTP. I recently playtested the DirectSail mod in my Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP version and it worked just fine and without any trouble. This can safely and easily be added to the first Sparrow Search test version.</div>
Playing with that on 13 final now.

Pieter Boelen · Oct 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 31 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]219617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I believe Pieter has copied you by now.</div>Yes he did. Oh wait. I did. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 31 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]219617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Most quests are location specific so we should only need to test once. New islands and their quests are an issue of their own, but in most cases follow the same rule. I don't expect too many issues there that we can't handle.</div>Some of the new features might influence the quests, but mainly once they work, they should remain working. Only when something is changed should we retest them. That is why we should put the most recent versions of the quests into the Sparrow Search mod so that all the latest changes are already included.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 31 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]219617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I would be very grateful if you would do this please.</div>I already did that as soon as Build 13 Final was made available and found that Build 13 Final = Build 13 + Update 3. No differences in the code. However, if you want to check it is really easy: Install both game versions to a different folder and run WinMerge on them. You should find that all files are identical. It wouldn't hurt to have somebody else check this as well, just in case. It shouldn't take much effort, just a long while to install and compare. But this can be handled mostly by the computer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 31 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]219617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>That gets my vote too !</div>I am not sure if we can get up to a stable Build 14 already, because not only do we need to fix the bugs for that, we also need to finish the new features. The bugs we can find and try to fix, but finishing all features and making them into a complete package that feels complete would require a lot more additional work. In any case the Sparrow Search project should allow us to make at least a Build 13.5 version with all stable stuff put in. But the main new features I want to keep exclusively to Build 14, even if we CAN make them stable for Build 13.5. Examples would be the rewritten and extended main quest. I want to keep that as a "selling point" for Build 14.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 31 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]219618[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Those are what I've been terming "functions".</div>Good name. I'll be using that name as well from now on to prevent confusion.

Pieter Boelen · Nov 4, 2007

I put a bunch of old fix-files up for download <a href="http://pafiles.com/potc/Pieter%20Assorted%20Files/+%20Old%20Fixes/" target="_blank">here</a>. They were originally available as attachment to some of my forum posts. I don't remember anymore what they fix or for what game version they were made, but perhaps they'll do some good by the time we start on the first Sparrow Search update (once we're finished with Build 13 Update 3).

Short Jack Gold · Dec 14, 2007

With Christmas coming up I am hoping that some of you at least will get a few hours to continue with the testing program. So here is the request for the next stage.

SPARROW SOUGHT
With two versions Ã¢â‚¬â€œ declared to be the same, but with an element of doubt Ã¢â‚¬â€œ I would like to do the following:
A player/tester should download Build 13 Final, then post a message that that is the version he/she is testing. (perhaps in his/her signature).
The next player/tester should download Update 3 to Build 13 Full, also posting a message that he/she is testing that version.

In this manner we should get half of the group each testing the alternate version, and we can finally confirm or otherwise if there are in fact any differences.

I am hoping that this section will move a lot faster than the first round as we have located what appear to be the common bugs.

I will duplicate the core of this post under the heading SPARROW SOUGHT, which I would ask Pieter to pin for the test reports.

Once again THANKS to everyone taking part in this effort.

Pieter Boelen · Dec 15, 2007

Thank you. I now sticked the other thread. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :doff

" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

Serious Build Bugfinding Effort

kevinatlanta

Sailor

morgan terror

Magnificent bastard

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer

Short Jack Gold

Very ancient mariner

Short Jack Gold

Very ancient mariner

Short Jack Gold

Very ancient mariner

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer

Short Jack Gold

Very ancient mariner

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer