• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Serious Build Bugfinding Effort

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />

This is just to mention that a download right now of the Build 13 full.exe from above mentioned link worked fine.
Clean and fresh install. No issue regarding start or engine.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />
 
The site Julian posted is the only place where Build 13 Full is still available. I replaced it with Build 13 Final on most sites. I am now re-uploading the file to the ModDB. It will be up in a while.

Please post any issues you experience on the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs" target="_blank">Bug Tracker</a>. Discussion on the game progress can take place in the <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11092" target="_blank">Sparrow Search</a> thread. This thread will remain dedicated to discussing HOW we will perform the bugfinding effort.

For posting Sparrow Search bugs, please go to "My Account" > "Preferences" on the Bug Tracker and set "Default project" to "All Projects" or "Sparrow Search". You can now report bugs specifically for the Sparrow Search project. <i>Level 1: Build 13.0 Full</i> has been added as test version for which you can report the bugs.
 
I have posted a <a href="http://mods.moddb.com/9269/potc-build-mod/news-features/" target="_blank">News Article</a> on the ModDB pertaining to the Sparrow Search project. Perhaps this can attract more testers to our cause.
 
Sorry for not helping you guys with testing but i don't really want to mess with installing Build mod again plus i'm having many mods in my game so NO GO! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219503:date=Oct 30 2007, 07:36 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 30 2007, 07:36 AM) [snapback]219503[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have posted a <a href="http://mods.moddb.com/9269/potc-build-mod/news-features/" target="_blank">News Article</a> on the ModDB pertaining to the Sparrow Search project. Perhaps this can attract more testers to our cause.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice one Pieter - good idea. The more testers the better, (and quicker), we will be.

If you're reading this and not sure whether to have a go - the only requirement is "playing the game".
There are a lot of really smart people here who can help you with anything else.
 
Oh dear. I am confused now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

What should I EXACTLY download and install in order to get a clean Build 13 Full version?
 
<a href="http://www.pafiles.com/build/" target="_blank">http://www.pafiles.com/build/</a>

is the site I used.
build13_full.exe is the download I used.
If you read the Build Info document after installing, you should see this:
Build Version: Sunday 19 November 2006
Build 13 Full - Final Release 1

The old buildinfo file may also be there (on your download) referring to V12 so note the Build Info file spelling.

(Don't you just hate it when your brain hurts?)
 
and since when exactly am i press-ganged into the testing team? i specifically said that i didn't want to plough through bugs again.
 
<!--quoteo(post=219519:date=Oct 30 2007, 12:40 PM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Oct 30 2007, 12:40 PM) [snapback]219519[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and since when exactly am i press-ganged into the testing team? i specifically said that i didn't want to plough through bugs again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pretty please ! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />
 
Thx! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
how much is in it for me? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> the thing is that i like to continue with the game without encountering game-killing bugs. and i've seen more than enough of those already. however, i don't really mind about non-game-killing bugs, as i can write those down and continue.
 
Morgan, really..You´re are obviously using Build 14 alpha 6 (your signature) and we are starting out with Build 13 Full. Alpha 6 should be more bugged than Build 13?
 
True. Motivation takes practise. Just imagine the amount of bullshit life will bring you (job, rent, children, wife etc) later on and put in into perspective of this == bugtesting is a bliss! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
i've got enough trouble to look up against already. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219546:date=Oct 30 2007, 06:50 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PeterWillemoes @ Oct 30 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]219546[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True. Motivation takes practise. Just imagine the amount of bullshit life will bring you (job, rent, children, wife etc) later on and put in into perspective of this == bugtesting is a bliss! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So very, very true!

LoL. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> Real life quests turn at times quite different then what you'd rather do ... then again it feels good to a have a game in which ... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> ... you just do the right thing! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219502:date=Oct 30 2007, 07:22 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 30 2007, 07:22 AM) [snapback]219502[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The site Julian posted is the only place where Build 13 Full is still available. I replaced it with Build 13 Final on most sites. I am now re-uploading the file to the ModDB. It will be up in a while.

Please post any issues you experience on the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs" target="_blank">Bug Tracker</a>. Discussion on the game progress can take place in the <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11092" target="_blank">Sparrow Search</a> thread. This thread will remain dedicated to discussing HOW we will perform the bugfinding effort.

For posting Sparrow Search bugs, please go to "My Account" > "Preferences" on the Bug Tracker and set "Default project" to "All Projects" or "Sparrow Search". You can now report bugs specifically for the Sparrow Search project. <i>Level 1: Build 13.0 Full</i> has been added as test version for which you can report the bugs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

OK, so we'll be using the bug tracker for specific issues ("bugs"), and I assume that each phase/version of the project (Build13full, Build13.3, etc.) will be reported in a discrete version name - so that we know which version the bug is being reported against.

Will all discussion for all versions be in the same thread (Sparrow Search) or will there be a separate thread for each version? IMHO, it could get confusing using one thread for all versions.

Also, how are the testers to know what they are testing? I have inferred (from several threads) that for the first part, we'll be doing Build13_Full and we are to stop at the Redmond governer after sinking the French Barque at FDF. Shouldn't the exact test conditions be laid out in the Sparrow Search thread (or in a dedicated "SS Build13 Full" thread)?

E.g.,
Sparrow Search, Build 13 Full, Test Phase 1 - play to XXYYZZ point in the main quest
(SS.Build13.FULL.01)
Test Start Date: xx/yy/zz

The way I understand the methodology we'll use is this:
- Major Build Version (i.e., Build 13 Full)
- Discrete testing points within each version (Phases, so that each version can be tracked, i.e., "SS.Build13.FULL.01")
- Fix bugs, then replay to test that the bugs are fixed
- Move on to next discrete testing points within that Major Build Version (i.e., "SS.Build13.FULL.02", etc.)
- Repeat until all findable bugs are gone from that Major Build Version.
- Move to next Major Build Version (i.e., Build 13.3, Build 14.1 BETA and/or whatever naming convention is chosen) and repeat the process.

kevin
 
I think there should be a seperate thread for each phase. Otherwise it'll get confusing indeed. I am a bit worrying about the time this will all take though, especially if we play through the game until one point, then go back and do it again over and over again. I am thinking perhaps we can put our resources to a more effective use. Personally I would suggest not spending too much time on Build 13 Full and Build 13 Final. These are supposed to be pretty much stable and should not contain (m)any horrible bugs. Then once we have made the first real Sparrow Search test version, including the new quests, characters, ships, locations, etc. we can spend notably more time on that, making sure that all the new content and the old content is working as it should. This would also be the time to perform the housekeeping that Short Jack Gold suggested.

It might also help if certain testers test certain parts of the game, rather than everybody testing everything. That might speed things up somewhat. Of course once a bug has been reported, we will need the other testers to try and replicate that bug, but as long as no problems are observed, we can just continue, can't we?

Just some random thoughts. I don't have any real-world experience with these kind of things, so I will leave the final decision up to Short Jack Gold and Kevin Atlanta.

To Short Jack Gold and Kevin Atlanta: Would you two be OK to be in charge of this bughunting project? Of course I will try to support you as far as I can and try to help as much myself as I can, but I also want to keep working with Pirate_KK and Maximus on Alpha 8. I am thinking perhaps we could have two projects being worked on at the same time:
1) Sparrow Search bughunting effort
2) Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP

I think the Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP should be more open to the community though, so that all the main modders have access to the latest files and that the WIP version is updated on a regular basis. But that is thought for a different thread, I suppose. Perhaps something I should discuss with Pirate_KK.
 
<!--quoteo(post=219569:date=Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]219569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think there should be a seperate thread for each phase. Otherwise it'll get confusing indeed. I am a bit worrying about the time this will all take though, especially if we play through the game until one point, then go back and do it again over and over again. I am thinking perhaps we can put our resources to a more effective use. Personally I would suggest not spending too much time on Build 13 Full and Build 13 Final. These are supposed to be pretty much stable and should not contain (m)any horrible bugs. Then once we have made the first real Sparrow Search test version, including the new quests, characters, ships, locations, etc. we can spend notably more time on that, making sure that all the new content and the old content is working as it should. This would also be the time to perform the housekeeping that Short Jack Gold suggested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I tend to agree that we should run through Build 13 Full quickly, then through Build 13.3 the same. From my play with Build 13.3, I think that should probably be our starting point for adding in new mods and thouroughly testing those new mods. However, we should probably test 13.3 for a week or so, just to be sure.

<!--quoteo(post=219569:date=Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]219569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might also help if certain testers test certain parts of the game, rather than everybody testing everything. That might speed things up somewhat. Of course once a bug has been reported, we will need the other testers to try and replicate that bug, but as long as no problems are observed, we can just continue, can't we?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Agreed. I think SJG has already volunteered to be the "dialog expert", we probably need similar testers for "Main Quest", "Side Quests", "New items/ships/locations/characters" and probably several "generic game" testers.

<!--quoteo(post=219569:date=Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 30 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]219569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just some random thoughts. I don't have any real-world experience with these kind of things, so I will leave the final decision up to Short Jack Gold and Kevin Atlanta.

To Short Jack Gold and Kevin Atlanta: Would you two be OK to be in charge of this bughunting project? Of course I will try to support you as far as I can and try to help as much myself as I can, but I also want to keep working with Pirate_KK and Maximus on Alpha 8. I am thinking perhaps we could have two projects being worked on at the same time:
1) Sparrow Search bughunting effort
2) Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP

I think the Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP should be more open to the community though, so that all the main modders have access to the latest files and that the WIP version is updated on a regular basis. But that is thought for a different thread, I suppose. Perhaps something I should discuss with Pirate_KK.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

OK, but I think I am safely speaking when I say that SJG and myself aren't coders, so we would need some support on actually fixing the bugs. I am pretty good at identifying the problems/bugs, however actually implementing the correct code to fix the problem is a different matter. With simple typos and such, I can do it, but for complex code functions, I will be no help.

kevin
 
To Pieter and Kevin.

Kevin I sent you a personal message yesterday outlining the suggested plan - did you not get it? (Pieter I also copied you)

It is indeed intended to Change the name at each stage of the project to prevent duplication and unnecessary rework, also allowing us to check back on specifics as the program progresses.
I have not laid out the complete plan because it will depend on what we find at each stage and we must be prepared to modify our approach accordingly.
I have only "suggested" an end point for testing at the moment. This also was deliberate. We need to move to the next level (stage) as soon as practicable. I don't want this project going on for months as players will get disinterested, which is why I have taken the approach that I have, which is the "Big Hammer" at the beginning (everyone doing the same thing) to prove the general stability of the build at this level.
We have testers at different levels and routes through the game, which although seemingly random will in fact follow the laws of probability.
If there is a major flaw - the majority of them will hit it. Our experience with 14.7 bears this out. I don't think that there is a major flaw in 13. However, we owe it to everyone to check.

We only have a limited number of testers and I don't want to dispirit them with repetitive unnecessary testing.
Past history has already indicated the stability of Build 13 full with occasional queries versus 13 plus update 3.
We are only one day into testing at the moment so, as confident as I am that we will in fact confirm this stability, we need to give the testers longer to prove or disprove the point.
After that we need the testers to play 13 Final through to completion to isolate any further minor bugs.

Assuming this stability to be correct, then it is my intention to add quests (which will be easier to de-bug) and I am willing to de-bug these plus the dialog.
Re-test the game to find the bugs these may create, or have created. That will take a while and we don't have that many testers, so I agree that specific testers should play specific quests at this point.

As a side project I intend to look at 13 full and 13 Final to try to determine the differences. If anyone else wants to do this as well (or already knows the differences) your input would be very welcome.
I am also trying to load Direct Sailing into the project as early as we can, as I think it gives a lot of game satisfaction to the majority of players.

Then the real task begins - adding the various functions/items characters/ships (not in quests) as found in the various levels up to 14.x and I believe this is where we will find the main problems.
(I know I could be wrong here - but that is the feeling that I have).
However, adding them a step at a time, we will have a stable and playable game which is my ultimate aim.

Sorry to have rambled on here but you raised a lot of questions which needed clarifying. I hope I've done that.
 
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