<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To Pieter and Kevin.
Kevin I sent you a personal message yesterday outlining the suggested plan - did you not get it? (Pieter I also copied you)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't get it. If you saved a copy in SENT items, could you resend it?
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is indeed intended to Change the name at each stage of the project to prevent duplication and unnecessary rework, also allowing us to check back on specifics as the program progresses.
I have not laid out the complete plan because it will depend on what we find at each stage and we must be prepared to modify our approach accordingly.
I have only "suggested" an end point for testing at the moment. This also was deliberate. We need to move to the next level (stage) as soon as practicable. I don't want this project going on for months as players will get disinterested, which is why I have taken the approach that I have, which is the "Big Hammer" at the beginning (everyone doing the same thing) to prove the general stability of the build at this level.
We have testers at different levels and routes through the game, which although seemingly random will in fact follow the laws of probability.
If there is a major flaw - the majority of them will hit it. Our experience with 14.7 bears this out. I don't think that there is a major flaw in 13. However, we owe it to everyone to check.
We only have a limited number of testers and I don't want to dispirit them with repetitive unnecessary testing.
Past history has already indicated the stability of Build 13 full with occasional queries versus 13 plus update 3.
We are only one day into testing at the moment so, as confident as I am that we will in fact confirm this stability, we need to give the testers longer to prove or disprove the point.
After that we need the testers to play 13 Final through to completion to isolate any further minor bugs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, although my thoughts are that Build 13.3 is the most stable version - and Build 13 Final might be a little less stable. Note that I haven't played Build 13 Final, only Build 13.3, so my thoughts are derived from comments on the forums re: Build 13 Final.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Assuming this stability to be correct, then it is my intention to add quests (which will be easier to de-bug) and I am willing to de-bug these plus the dialog.
Re-test the game to find the bugs these may create, or have created. That will take a while and we don't have that many testers, so I agree that specific testers should play specific quests at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thought here is that if we add the quests before adding the upgraded islands, we will have to perform the same testing twice. Don't most of the quests use lots of locators on the island locations and can't those cause bugs? And don't the quests have to be updated to match the new islands? However, I'll defer to you since I haven't added any quests of my own yet.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a side project I intend to look at 13 full and 13 Final to try to determine the differences. If anyone else wants to do this as well (or already knows the differences) your input would be very welcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was going to try and do the same on Build 13 Final versus Build 13.3
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am also trying to load Direct Sailing into the project as early as we can, as I think it gives a lot of game satisfaction to the majority of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100% agreed that Direct Sail is the "wow factor" for me in the mods. And from what I've seen of CCC's mods, there should be very few, if any, bugs in that code. Fingers crossed.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then the real task begins - adding the various functions/items characters/ships (not in quests) as found in the various levels up to 14.x and I believe this is where we will find the main problems.
(I know I could be wrong here - but that is the feeling that I have).
However, adding them a step at a time, we will have a stable and playable game which is my ultimate aim.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I think the new functions/features are where we'll be "bugged" the most - and need the most "expert coder" help. I don't see new items/ships causing that much trouble (I'm pretty decent at finding and fixing these). New character additions always seem to need some tweaking (which thankfully I can normally do). Adding of the new decks and cabins has seemed to cause lots of headaches in the Build 14.x Alphas, so we can probably expect the same when/if we change these. However, if we can add one mod at a time, finding and fixing these bugs should be somewhat easier.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry to have rambled on here but you raised a lot of questions which needed clarifying. I hope I've done that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the main thing we need is to keep the interest of all the testers and quash as many bugs as possible, in a reasonable time frame, to get to a stable and playable version of the game. And I think the end point here is to have a stable and release-able Build Mod 14 ("New Horizons") - which I think everyone here wants.
Here's to some good testing sessions for everyone!
kevin
Kevin I sent you a personal message yesterday outlining the suggested plan - did you not get it? (Pieter I also copied you)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't get it. If you saved a copy in SENT items, could you resend it?
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is indeed intended to Change the name at each stage of the project to prevent duplication and unnecessary rework, also allowing us to check back on specifics as the program progresses.
I have not laid out the complete plan because it will depend on what we find at each stage and we must be prepared to modify our approach accordingly.
I have only "suggested" an end point for testing at the moment. This also was deliberate. We need to move to the next level (stage) as soon as practicable. I don't want this project going on for months as players will get disinterested, which is why I have taken the approach that I have, which is the "Big Hammer" at the beginning (everyone doing the same thing) to prove the general stability of the build at this level.
We have testers at different levels and routes through the game, which although seemingly random will in fact follow the laws of probability.
If there is a major flaw - the majority of them will hit it. Our experience with 14.7 bears this out. I don't think that there is a major flaw in 13. However, we owe it to everyone to check.
We only have a limited number of testers and I don't want to dispirit them with repetitive unnecessary testing.
Past history has already indicated the stability of Build 13 full with occasional queries versus 13 plus update 3.
We are only one day into testing at the moment so, as confident as I am that we will in fact confirm this stability, we need to give the testers longer to prove or disprove the point.
After that we need the testers to play 13 Final through to completion to isolate any further minor bugs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, although my thoughts are that Build 13.3 is the most stable version - and Build 13 Final might be a little less stable. Note that I haven't played Build 13 Final, only Build 13.3, so my thoughts are derived from comments on the forums re: Build 13 Final.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Assuming this stability to be correct, then it is my intention to add quests (which will be easier to de-bug) and I am willing to de-bug these plus the dialog.
Re-test the game to find the bugs these may create, or have created. That will take a while and we don't have that many testers, so I agree that specific testers should play specific quests at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thought here is that if we add the quests before adding the upgraded islands, we will have to perform the same testing twice. Don't most of the quests use lots of locators on the island locations and can't those cause bugs? And don't the quests have to be updated to match the new islands? However, I'll defer to you since I haven't added any quests of my own yet.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a side project I intend to look at 13 full and 13 Final to try to determine the differences. If anyone else wants to do this as well (or already knows the differences) your input would be very welcome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was going to try and do the same on Build 13 Final versus Build 13.3
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am also trying to load Direct Sailing into the project as early as we can, as I think it gives a lot of game satisfaction to the majority of players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100% agreed that Direct Sail is the "wow factor" for me in the mods. And from what I've seen of CCC's mods, there should be very few, if any, bugs in that code. Fingers crossed.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then the real task begins - adding the various functions/items characters/ships (not in quests) as found in the various levels up to 14.x and I believe this is where we will find the main problems.
(I know I could be wrong here - but that is the feeling that I have).
However, adding them a step at a time, we will have a stable and playable game which is my ultimate aim.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I think the new functions/features are where we'll be "bugged" the most - and need the most "expert coder" help. I don't see new items/ships causing that much trouble (I'm pretty decent at finding and fixing these). New character additions always seem to need some tweaking (which thankfully I can normally do). Adding of the new decks and cabins has seemed to cause lots of headaches in the Build 14.x Alphas, so we can probably expect the same when/if we change these. However, if we can add one mod at a time, finding and fixing these bugs should be somewhat easier.
<!--quoteo(post=219577:date=Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 30 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]219577[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry to have rambled on here but you raised a lot of questions which needed clarifying. I hope I've done that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the main thing we need is to keep the interest of all the testers and quash as many bugs as possible, in a reasonable time frame, to get to a stable and playable version of the game. And I think the end point here is to have a stable and release-able Build Mod 14 ("New Horizons") - which I think everyone here wants.
Here's to some good testing sessions for everyone!
kevin