Suggestions and bugs for an upcoming version!

[Don Lasagnetti]

So, I've been playing build 14 for quite a while now, played through five different storylines (Hornblower, Nathaniel Hawk, Jack Sparrow, Assassin and the French Guy) with (I think) all side quests and still love it all!

So, I read somewhere that a new version will probably be released soon, so I wondered, about when can this be expected? Or did I misread something?

Secondly, I have a few minor ideas that might make the game more interesting!
(I discovered a few bugs too, will be posting those in the second post, for those who want to skip this rather long suggestion post!)


The first suggestion I want to make is a change to the way boarding works!
Right now, if you die during boarding, that's it, game is over. What I would love to see is a chance to survive there! But of course, not without a severe loss, so what I want to suggest is that instead of having to reload, you would have a chance (based on the settings concerning survival) to survive that death, but to loose your ship. Quite like death on land, you would then end up either in a cabin of your escort ship, or in a dinghy with just a few survivors. Your main ship is now in enemy hands...


My next suggestion, and I have no idea how easily that could be done, concerns starting out...
I have recently returned to playing Master and Commander, and it's nice how you can jump right into tougher battles, but probably an option for free play could be added, where, upon starting the game, you get a conversation where you can choose several options:
Which country you want to work for and which colony you want to start in
Which period you want to start in (would probably have to be a game option for every period)
If you want to be military or merchant (pirate or smuggler)
Then you get to choose from, let's say, 10 ships tier 7 and/or 8 accurate for your period

Depending on your choices you then start with an armed vessel if military, at the lowest rank of the chosen nation or with an unarmed or barely armed vessel with a few trading goods on board and a bit of gold, if you chose merchant.


The third thing is minor, but either my game is bugged, or working for the United States does not provide you with uniforms or reward weapons, actually, my save games still show my rank from the previous nation, so maybe this could be changed?

Which leads me to suggestion 4: Improve reward swords!
Right now, most of the swords you are given by nations are not really useful, because by the time you receive them, you have found quite a few weapons that are better... I still keep them, because they are unique and I like them, but I rarely use them... So maybe at least the admiralty swords could be improved a bit? Either by increasing their stats, giving them something unique (like the Francis Drake Sword, or Bartholomeu's etc.)


On to suggestion 5!
Make enemies stronger... Yes, that's right, after reaching a certain level (about 20-30), I find them rather easy to defeat, both in sea battles and in duell. Especially during boarding, as you can equip your whole crew with the gilded cuirass, so I barely loose men anymore. Not sure what to do exactly against that, but maybe simply allowing the enemy to use armor too would be an option? Especially on high class navy ships, which I would expect to be rather well armed. Available armor for sailors would depend on the captain's level.
Also, maybe adding a few more armor options, not many, 2-3 maybe, or increasing the level at which you can purchase each armor? To make up for that, they could be found randomly in chests a few levels before they could be bought, that would make looting more attractive too, I think

And the last suggestion...
It would be nice if older ships could be encountered in later periods, but at a much smaller chance. Think for example of vessels passed on in a family, repaired numerous times but not scrapped because a new one can't be afforded or because it holds sentimental worth. What I'd like to see with a very small chance too are really tough opponents with superior ships. For example, a very small chance to encounter a very tough ghost ship where you have no choice but to flee, or an improved First Rate ship with more men, cannons and hit points, which would represent flagships and the pride of the whole navy, or a pirate ship that managed to install cannons that usually would not be fitting for that ship etc.


Alright, that was rather long, so thanks for anyone who read through this! Feel free to share your thoughts if you want or enlighten me if I can do any of this easily by myself (I've edited the internal settings to some degree, but a few things are just above my understanding, so after I've broken the file three times, I'm a bit hesitant to make too many changes now )

 

[Don Lasagnetti]

Alright, and now a few bugs I dicovered (more might follow later)

Bug 1:
Captains of ships created around islands demand salary 0 when they surrender their ships, contrary to those at sea, who ask for normal payment

Bug 2:
Not sure if it is only my game, but even after reinstalling it is happening, so it's either the download that's messed up or a problem with the game. Portuguese soldiers in the Master and Commander Storyline are not showing up for me when boarding ships. So many decks are without enemy soldiers, others spawn just one or two of the commanders.
Also, quite a lot of the models don't work for me if I choose them as boarders

Bug 3:
In the Master and Commander Storyline I can hire officers at taverns at any cost without actually paying them.
If I start out with 2000 gold and try to hire an officer for 12000, it actually works, because no gold is taken from the Crew Money. Tested in the Governor's Harbor Tavern

Bug 4:
A number of First Rates have 42pds cannons as maximum, where only 32 are available in the game, I think that might be a typo or something

Bug 5:
A lot of feats are available repeatedly after use, for example the instant boarding feat. I can board 10 ships in a row with it, if I want to, without having to wait at all

Bug 6:
The Skip Encounter icon you receive with the Seawolf feat, I think, is pretty useless, as you can choose to skip any battle by simply clicking "No" when you're told what ships you encountered.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So, I read somewhere that a new version will probably be released soon, so I wondered, about when can this be expected? Or did I misread something?

Yep, we're working on it right now. Will be released once we managed to do what we're trying to accomplish.
You can see the latest news here and also help out with the testing: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-2-4-progress.20493

The first suggestion I want to make is a change to the way boarding works!
Right now, if you die during boarding, that's it, game is over. What I would love to see is a chance to survive there! But of course, not without a severe loss, so what I want to suggest is that instead of having to reload, you would have a chance (based on the settings concerning survival) to survive that death, but to loose your ship. Quite like death on land, you would then end up either in a cabin of your escort ship, or in a dinghy with just a few survivors. Your main ship is now in enemy hands...

Would admittedly be nice, but not so easy to code in. With basically just me doing any coding at the moment, I'm afraid we can't try to do this right now.

The third thing is minor, but either my game is bugged, or working for the United States does not provide you with uniforms or reward weapons, actually, my save games still show my rank from the previous nation, so maybe this could be changed?

Indeed, the US were added after the GivePromotionAward function was coded, so they got left out a bit. It wouldn't be so difficult to add this though; just somebody has to do it.
This is the relevant code from PROGRAM\NK.c:

Spoiler

        case AMERICA:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Sarge
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_01")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_01")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_02")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_02")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_03")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_03")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_04")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_04")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_05")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m5;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Crewmember_05")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m5;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_1")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_1")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_2")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_2")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_3")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_3")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_4")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_4")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_5")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m5;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_5")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m5;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_6")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m6;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_6")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m6;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_7")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_7")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m1;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_8")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_8")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m2;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_9")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_9")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m3;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_10")].model = Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    Characters[GetCharacterIndex("Treas_Crewmember_10")].headmodel = "h_"+Nations[AMERICA].fantomModel.m4;
                    pchar.boardingmodels = "AMERICA";
                break;
                case 2: // Master Sergeant
                break;
                case 3: // Sub-Lieutenant
                break;
                case 4: // Lieutenant
                break;
                case 5: // Captain
                /*    ch = CreateOfficer_Cheat(OFFIC_TYPE_FIRSTMATE, "USA_lut_18", 3, AMERICA, false);
                    ExchangeCharacterShip(ch, pchar);
                    SetCompanionIndex(pchar, -1, GetCharacterIndex(ch.id)));
                    switch(GetCurrentPeriod())
                    {
                        case PERIOD_REVOLUTIONS:
                            GiveShip2Character(pchar, "USS_Constitution", "USS Constitution", -1, AMERICA, true, false);
                        break;

                        case PERIOD_THE_CORSICAN:
                            GiveShip2Character(pchar, "US_SteamFrigate", "USS Hudson", -1, AMERICA, true, false);
                        break;
                    }*/
                break;
                case 6: // Major
                break;
                case 7: // Colonel
                break;
                case 8: // Commodore
                break;
                case 9: // Counter-Admiral
                break;
                case 10: // Admiral
                break;
                case 11: // Capitalist
                break;
                case 12: // Corporation Head
                break;
            }
        break;

I'm not sure what is up with your rank names. Are you saying you got ranks from another nation first and only then started getting ranks from the USA?
Would you mind starting a new game and getting ranks from the USA straight away? I'd quite like to know if those rank names work at all.
The USA are a new nation that we added, which is something we had never done before. So it's very well possible that some things don't work entirely right.

Which leads me to suggestion 4: Improve reward swords!
Right now, most of the swords you are given by nations are not really useful, because by the time you receive them, you have found quite a few weapons that are better... I still keep them, because they are unique and I like them, but I rarely use them... So maybe at least the admiralty swords could be improved a bit? Either by increasing their stats, giving them something unique (like the Francis Drake Sword, or Bartholomeu's etc.)

Getting into game balancing here; that's always a tricky area. We've been changing item stats over and over again and it never seems to be quite right.
Could an easy solution be to move the promotion swords to an earlier promotion? Alternatively, how strong would they need to be if we did change their stats?

On to suggestion 5!
Make enemies stronger... Yes, that's right, after reaching a certain level (about 20-30), I find them rather easy to defeat, both in sea battles and in duell. Especially during boarding, as you can equip your whole crew with the gilded cuirass, so I barely loose men anymore. Not sure what to do exactly against that, but maybe simply allowing the enemy to use armor too would be an option? Especially on high class navy ships, which I would expect to be rather well armed. Available armor for sailors would depend on the captain's level.
Also, maybe adding a few more armor options, not many, 2-3 maybe, or increasing the level at which you can purchase each armor? To make up for that, they could be found randomly in chests a few levels before they could be bought, that would make looting more attractive too, I think

One of our other members and testers, Hylie Pistof, has been having very different experiences with game difficulty during fencing.
He has been finding that it actually becomes too difficult in the later game. I think we should try to do some figuring out what is going here.
Maybe you can discuss together? And which difficulty level were you playing at?

And the last suggestion...
It would be nice if older ships could be encountered in later periods, but at a much smaller chance. Think for example of vessels passed on in a family, repaired numerous times but not scrapped because a new one can't be afforded or because it holds sentimental worth. What I'd like to see with a very small chance too are really tough opponents with superior ships. For example, a very small chance to encounter a very tough ghost ship where you have no choice but to flee, or an improved First Rate ship with more men, cannons and hit points, which would represent flagships and the pride of the whole navy, or a pirate ship that managed to install cannons that usually would not be fitting for that ship etc.

The period chances are defined in PROGRAM\Ships\ships_init.c and are pretty easy to change. I wouldn't quite want to get too early ships show up in the later time periods, because that would defeat the purpose of making those periods more distinctive.

As for super-strong ships, there are a few in the game that should be a tough nut to crack. There is the Soleil Royal, for one.
But Tier 1 ships are very rare, like they should be in the Caribbean. And we don't want to add ghost ships unless they're part of a specific storyline.

Alright, that was rather long, so thanks for anyone who read through this! Feel free to share your thoughts if you want or enlighten me if I can do any of this easily by myself (I've edited the internal settings to some degree, but a few things are just above my understanding, so after I've broken the file three times, I'm a bit hesitant to make too many changes now )

How did you break the InternalSettings?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Bug 1:
Captains of ships created around islands demand salary 0 when they surrender their ships, contrary to those at sea, who ask for normal payment

Does that happen also the first time that you capture them or only the second time?
I know the characters around islands get reused and I wonder if their salary code is not being purged properly.

Bug 2:
Not sure if it is only my game, but even after reinstalling it is happening, so it's either the download that's messed up or a problem with the game. Portuguese soldiers in the Master and Commander Storyline are not showing up for me when boarding ships. So many decks are without enemy soldiers, others spawn just one or two of the commanders.
Also, quite a lot of the models don't work for me if I choose them as boarders

Looks like you're absolutely right. There is a mismatch between their coded model names and their actual model names.
Attached file should fix that; extract to your main game folder. New game required. Thanks for catching this!

Bug 3:
In the Master and Commander Storyline I can hire officers at taverns at any cost without actually paying them.
If I start out with 2000 gold and try to hire an officer for 12000, it actually works, because no gold is taken from the Crew Money. Tested in the Governor's Harbor Tavern

Jack Aubrey is a professional navy character and therefore doesn't pay salary nor does he have to pay to hire officers.
Whether that makes sense is up for debate though. Does anyone think we should remove the code that is responsible for this? Comments, please!

Bug 4:
A number of First Rates have 42pds cannons as maximum, where only 32 are available in the game, I think that might be a typo or something

42 pounders do exist, but they're used by forts only.
Each nation design ships are different. For example, US design ships get 1.5 times the normal maximum calibre of cannons.
So if a ship in ships_init.c is set to maximally use 32 pounders, a US ship would get 32*1.5=48 pounders. Which is strange because it doesn't match up with the 42 you reported.
Can you confirm that all the ships you found this with are of US design? If so, I think I can work out how to put in a safeguard in ships_init.c to prevent higher calibres than 32.

Bug 5:
A lot of feats are available repeatedly after use, for example the instant boarding feat. I can board 10 ships in a row with it, if I want to, without having to wait at all

Can anyone confirm that? Since what modpack release is that happening, I wonder.

Bug 6:
The Skip Encounter icon you receive with the Seawolf feat, I think, is pretty useless, as you can choose to skip any battle by simply clicking "No" when you're told what ships you encountered.

Perfectly true in Beta 2.3. A long time ago we lost the code that made worldmap encounters skippable only some times and not always.
However, I found the code that is responsible for that and this should return back to normal with the fix files in this thread: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-2-4-progress.20493

 

[Faith]

Alright, and now a few bugs I dicovered (more might follow later)

Bug 1:
Captains of ships created around islands demand salary 0 when they surrender their ships, contrary to those at sea, who ask for normal payment

Bug 2:
Not sure if it is only my game, but even after reinstalling it is happening, so it's either the download that's messed up or a problem with the game. Portuguese soldiers in the Master and Commander Storyline are not showing up for me when boarding ships. So many decks are without enemy soldiers, others spawn just one or two of the commanders.
Also, quite a lot of the models don't work for me if I choose them as boarders

Bug 3:
In the Master and Commander Storyline I can hire officers at taverns at any cost without actually paying them.
If I start out with 2000 gold and try to hire an officer for 12000, it actually works, because no gold is taken from the Crew Money. Tested in the Governor's Harbor Tavern

Bug 4:
A number of First Rates have 42pds cannons as maximum, where only 32 are available in the game, I think that might be a typo or something

Bug 5:
A lot of feats are available repeatedly after use, for example the instant boarding feat. I can board 10 ships in a row with it, if I want to, without having to wait at all

Bug 6:
The Skip Encounter icon you receive with the Seawolf feat, I think, is pretty useless, as you can choose to skip any battle by simply clicking "No" when you're told what ships you encountered.

Just went over these in game and yeah i have them also

 

[Skyworm]

Hello!

Getting into game balancing here; that's always a tricky area. We've been changing item stats over and over again and it never seems to be quite right.
Could an easy solution be to move the promotion swords to an earlier promotion? Alternatively, how strong would they need to be if we did change their stats?

I just wonder if it is already a good idea to make them more powerful. Don Lasagnetti, on the one hand you want more powerful prommotion swords, while on other hand you say fencing is too easy.
I personally find fencing overall very much too difficult ... but it improves with e decent sword. The best I found is that Sabre of Nicholas Sharpe out of the "Toofs Daughter" Quest in the stock Nathaniel Hawke storyline. Perhaps Promotions words should be about that power?

One of our other members and testers, Hylie Pistof, has been having very different experiences with game difficulty during fencing.
He has been finding that it actually becomes too difficult in the later game. I think we should try to do some figuring out what is going here.
Maybe you can discuss together? And which difficulty level were you playing at?

To me fencing is like a big random thing.
In my newly started game, characters about lv 5, at journeyman, almost anything can happen. I can shot an enemy an kill him. Can hit him and kill him. He can shot or hit me and kill me. All that with one hit. Thus, I save before any melee combat. Of course my characters don't wear any armor, haven't found them right now.
In my other game - Hawke storyline, journeyman, short below level 30 I think, and wearing the 2nd armor, the one hitting didn't occur. But death can still come very quickly, and 2 hits are quickly done.
I hired officers much above my own level just for the purpose of fighting in melees, and usually try to get them into combat first. Then, wen they got the enemies in a fight, I join and attack too. This way I survive in most cases.

But I think balancing fencing is extremely difficult. It has been far too easy when the always blocking of the stock game was still active, but now the outcome is completely unpredictable. 4 guys can be both killed very easily, or outright kill me and my group.

 

[Skyworm]

Hello!

Jack Aubrey is a professional navy character and therefore doesn't pay salary nor does he have to pay to hire officers.
Whether that makes sense is up for debate though. Does anyone think we should remove the code that is responsible for this? Comments, please!

It may be realistic that he does not has to pay for his crew. But then, this realism must be more consequent. Means, as a naval officers, he shall not be allowed to keep captured booty, goods, ships for his own purpose. Thus, we would end up with a character, who neither has money nor needs money. Except perhaps for prize money. Consequently, he then could not choose his ships too, because they woulöd be given to him by admirality. But that would take the whole ecomomic part out of the game, and I am not sure if I would like that.
I think gathering money and buying new ships and equipping them is a fun part of the game. Taking this out of the game for a naval character wouldn't be good, but perhaps be realistic. Just my thoughts.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It may be realistic that he does not has to pay for his crew. But then, this realism must be more consequent. Means, as a naval officers, he shall not be allowed to keep captured booty, goods, ships for his own purpose. Thus, we would end up with a character, who neither has money nor needs money. Except perhaps for prize money. Consequently, he then could not choose his ships too, because they woulöd be given to him by admirality. But that would take the whole ecomomic part out of the game, and I am not sure if I would like that.
I think gathering money and buying new ships and equipping them is a fun part of the game. Taking this out of the game for a naval character wouldn't be good, but perhaps be realistic. Just my thoughts.

That is a pretty accurate description of the Hornblower storyline. Perhaps we should have the Professional Navy effects for Hornblower only and not Master & Commander?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Would you hire on with a naval vessel knowing you would not get paid?

About melee, I have said it gets suddenly hard about level 7-8 and stays that way until one gets the golden curiass at level 15-16. After that death is rare and only when I get 3-4 of them on me at once. As a merchantman I am often the boardee, not the boarder and sometimes die then. You betcha I pass out the golden curiass to my crew! That is the only way to capture the larger ships. It does no good to capture a tier 1 ship if there are only 12 survivors left afterwards.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Would you hire on with a naval vessel knowing you would not get paid?

So you're saying we should get rid of that functionality? At least in Master & Commander, I think.
The Hornblower one technically was balanced with that modification. I suppose the logic is that the crew gets their pay from the admiralty, not from you.

About melee, I have said it gets suddenly hard about level 7-8 and stays that way until one gets the golden curiass at level 15-16. After that death is rare and only when I get 3-4 of them on me at once.

Which difficulty level do you play on? And is it the same as Don Lasagnetti plays on?

 

[Skyworm]

Hello Pieter!

That is a pretty accurate description of the Hornblower storyline. Perhaps we should have the Professional Navy effects for Hornblower only and not Master & Commander?

I haven't yet played the Hornblower storyline. While I enjoyed the movies/TV series, I don't like to play much in storylines in a game. I much more enjoy free playing.
To my understanding, the Hornblower storyline is much guided and offers not mich chances for free playing - at least not in the beginning. In that case, a navy crew payed by admirality might be a good thing.

Now whith this Professional Navy effects acually active for both storylines, I think it might be better to have it active for only one of them. This way, one can decide by the storyline if one wants to be a professional navy or not. This way, the Hornblower would be the professional navy storyline, while Aubrey would be just free to play in the 1777s.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I haven't yet played the Hornblower storyline. While I enjoyed the movies/TV series, I don't like to play much in storylines in a game. I much more enjoy free playing.
To my understanding, the Hornblower storyline is much guided and offers not mich chances for free playing - at least not in the beginning. In that case, a navy crew payed by admirality might be a good thing.

Hornblower even penalizes you for trying to free play at times. Until the end of the story, after which you're free to do whatever.

Now whith this Professional Navy effects acually active for both storylines, I think it might be better to have it active for only one of them. This way, one can decide by the storyline if one wants to be a professional navy or not. This way, the Hornblower would be the professional navy storyline, while Aubrey would be just free to play in the 1777s.

I think so too.
Should we have the M&C boardermodels set to English soldiers at all or just have that storyline be as generic as possible?

While we're at it, I've been thinking the various storylines should have more varied starting relations with nationalities.
By default, you are friendly with EVERY nation. Should their friendliness (or not) be based on your nationality?
Isn't the game too easy if you start a storyline where everyone is friendly, apart from the pirates?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I play at swashbuckler level. Methinks the only difference is that the opponents have more HP. Did I mention the Captain who had 1800 HP? I wore my sword out on him.

 

[Faith]

I play at swashbuckler level. Methinks the only difference is that the opponents have more HP. Did I mention the Captain who had 1800 HP? I wore my sword out on him.

oh dam, aint nobody got time fo dat.

 

[Skyworm]

Hello.

Hornblower even penalizes you for trying to free play at times. Until the end of the story, after which you're free to do whatever.

I think that's why I tend to play storylines that almost have no story, like Devlin or M&C, or the stock Nathaniel Hawke, where the story can easily be ignored.

I think so too.
Should we have the M&C boardermodels set to English soldiers at all or just have that storyline be as generic as possible?

Thanks to you I now know ho to reset boarders myself ... but generally I'd say make it free. When one wants soldiers of a specific nation, al he needs to do is to buy a letter of marque and start fighting ships of that nations enemies. Means, when one plays the M&C Storyline as intended as a british navy captain, one will get the british boardes very soon anyway.

While we're at it, I've been thinking the various storylines should have more varied starting relations with nationalities.
By default, you are friendly with EVERY nation. Should their friendliness (or not) be based on your nationality?
Isn't the game too easy if you start a storyline where everyone is friendly, apart from the pirates?

In the menu where one starts a storyline, one can choose a nations flag. What about making nation relations dependant on that choice. For example, starting the M&C storyline and chosing the american flag, would then set me to be friendly with anyone except the british.
On the other hand, such setting may interfere with some stoylines. The best option perhaps would be to have storylines with a fixed setting of relations, and then have the option for ignoring the storylines, with the freedom of choice. In that, the storyline would just be a choice of the era one plays in.
But perhaps then it would be even easier to add another "storyline" to the existant ones, which is intended to be completely free playing, with choices about location, nation, era and maybe start ship. But that might be too much work for 2.4

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think that's why I tend to play storylines that almost have no story, like Devlin or M&C, or the stock Nathaniel Hawke, where the story can easily be ignored.

Fair enough; all up to whatever you prefer.
Generally the only stories that REALLY must be followed "to the letter" are the Woodes Rogers and Hornblower ones.
Bartolomeu and Assassin are fairly linear, but they don't need to be followed and occasionally come to a point where they allow, encourage or even require free play.
The Jack Sparrow storyline was especially made with free play in mind, allowing many different routes to get to the end of the story and requiring free play at times.

Thanks to you I now know ho to reset boarders myself ... but generally I'd say make it free. When one wants soldiers of a specific nation, al he needs to do is to buy a letter of marque and start fighting ships of that nations enemies. Means, when one plays the M&C Storyline as intended as a british navy captain, one will get the british boardes very soon anyway.

You're already a British Commander when you start that storyline, so you wouldn't be able to get a LoM. It'd be easy to remove that as well though.
Would reduce the realism for a REAL Master & Commander start. But then there IS no real story anyway, so we might as well make it as generic as possible, no?

In the menu where one starts a storyline, one can choose a nations flag. What about making nation relations dependant on that choice. For example, starting the M&C storyline and chosing the american flag, would then set me to be friendly with anyone except the british.
On the other hand, such setting may interfere with some stoylines. The best option perhaps would be to have storylines with a fixed setting of relations, and then have the option for ignoring the storylines, with the freedom of choice. In that, the storyline would just be a choice of the era one plays in.
But perhaps then it would be even easier to add another "storyline" to the existant ones, which is intended to be completely free playing, with choices about location, nation, era and maybe start ship. But that might be too much work for 2.4

Well, I'll be trying to put in the Customize functions in the Select Storyline interface. If I manage that, we can see what other customize functions we can add in.
And which we have to lock down to prevent messing up their respective stories.

 

[Don Lasagnetti]

Thanks for checking that Faith, and for all the quick replies!
Ah, I understand and would love to help out, but I've never done a single bit of coding so far. I will gladly help out with any testing, but not before next week, except very minor things...
And I'm glad I could help with the Portuguese Soldiers (started worrying that something on my side was broken)

I'm not sure what is up with your rank names. Are you saying you got ranks from another nation first and only then started getting ranks from the USA?
Would you mind starting a new game and getting ranks from the USA straight away? I'd quite like to know if those rank names work at all.
The USA are a new nation that we added, which is something we had never done before. So it's very well possible that some things don't work entirely right.

Well, I've been Admiral in Britain before I decided to have a look at the United States, as I've never worked for them before (Master and Commander Storyline). Unfortunately, I forgot to resign with Britain and simply went and "convinced" the governor of Governor's Harbor to like me again, then bought a letter of mark.
I've advanced a few ranks by now, but never had my uniform changed or any weapons received. Additonally, when I save and load, it still states that I'm playing Admiral Jack Aubrey.
When I've got some time in between studying, I'll look through that code you posted and see if I can make any sense of it!

Getting into game balancing here; that's always a tricky area. We've been changing item stats over and over again and it never seems to be quite right.
Could an easy solution be to move the promotion swords to an earlier promotion? Alternatively, how strong would they need to be if we did change their stats?

I understand, that's likely one of the hardest things with games. I'm not entirely sure either, personally I wouldn't make them as strong as the Nicolas Sharp Sabre, as it's pretty much the best sword I've found so far in any storyline I played.
Probably moving them to an earlier promotion would work, or just increasing all stats just a bit.
I'll take Britain as an example, the most recent nation I worked for (Master and Commander Storyline)
By the time I was promoted to Commodore and thus received the Corsair's Pride, I've found a good number of more useful swords. I was maybe level 12 when I was promoted (and keep in mind that I skipped all ranks up to Commander with this storyline), but in my opinion most swords found at that level are actually better. The Spanish Rapier, Snakehead or Knight's Templar Sword come to mind first... So maybe just a slight increase, about 10% in blocking and piercing and maybe an average +5 damage would make them outstanding already. I don't remember how far I advanced in that storyline, but some of the best swords to be found were the Polish Huszar's Szabla or the US Cavalry Sabre. Concerning Reward Swords, the Dragon Head (Pirates) and the Portuguese Swords are the only ones I'd consider using because of power. I still use the Corsair's Pride because I like the look and usually have no trouble with fencing, but it's definately not among the best swords I can use.

One of our other members and testers, Hylie Pistof, has been having very different experiences with game difficulty during fencing.
He has been finding that it actually becomes too difficult in the later game. I think we should try to do some figuring out what is going here.
Maybe you can discuss together? And which difficulty level were you playing at?

About melee, I have said it gets suddenly hard about level 7-8 and stays that way until one gets the golden curiass at level 15-16.

I actually agree with Hylie here, it's definately not easy at those level, but only until one can get the second armor or gilded cuirass. I always play on hardest difficulty, because I find the game to be too easy at higher levels
I mostly don't even have fencing maxed out at ten, usually 7 or 8 when it's starting to become rather easy.
During boardings, I think there's more factors than just personal prowess to consider, I have no idea about the code, but I'm very sure that if you board ships with more crewmembers than you have, they're outnumbering you only slightly, but become really strong. Usually though, at around level 10-15 I'm sailing my tier 3 ship with at least 400-500 crew members, equipped with good swords and armor, and starting there I hardly encounter a challenge, even when boarding First Rates with a high number of crew members. The higher I get, in my experience, the easier it gets, I've occasionally even moved to smaller vessels with a level 35-40 character because they just looked better and were faster.

That's just my personal experience though, but across a few storylines with a few characters and different officers so far I'm usually starting a new game at some point, because there is hardly a challenge left.
Not sure what solutions I would propose, but probably either allowing enemies to use armor too, or handing out better armor only as a reward might help a bit with this. Increasing the cost I think wouldn't help, because it takes only about 10-15 pieces of gilded cuirass and good weapons to board even ships with several hundred crewmembers and usually quite a few of them will be left still after the boarding.

The period chances are defined in PROGRAM\Ships\ships_init.c and are pretty easy to change. I wouldn't quite want to get too early ships show up in the later time periods, because that would defeat the purpose of making those periods more distinctive.

As for super-strong ships, there are a few in the game that should be a tough nut to crack. There is the Soleil Royal, for one.
But Tier 1 ships are very rare, like they should be in the Caribbean. And we don't want to add ghost ships unless they're part of a specific storyline.

Alright, I understand and will have a look at that file for myself and see if the the chances can be as low as I want them, it should be a really, really rare occurence in my opinion...
Okay, I've either not encountered that ship or haven't noticed, but I fight quite a lot of First Rates, Jamaica's Governer for example often gives me a quest to sink one of those.

How did you break the InternalSettings?

I'm not sure, honestly. I've went through them for the first time and adjusted a few things. After that, every new game started crashing upon loading, most old saves were fine. I have the suspicion that I implemented a typo somewhere, which made the game crash, but I didn't track it down, rather took the standard Internal Settings file and edited it another time. Now I've changed quite a few things, but it's working properly for a good while already.

Does that happen also the first time that you capture them or only the second time?
I know the characters around islands get reused and I wonder if their salary code is not being purged properly.

I frankly don't know right now, but I'd say it's everytime I board vessels generated around islands...

42 pounders do exist, but they're used by forts only.
Each nation design ships are different. For example, US design ships get 1.5 times the normal maximum calibre of cannons.
So if a ship in ships_init.c is set to maximally use 32 pounders, a US ship would get 32*1.5=48 pounders. Which is strange because it doesn't match up with the 42 you reported.
Can you confirm that all the ships you found this with are of US design? If so, I think I can work out how to put in a safeguard in ships_init.c to prevent higher calibres than 32.

I can't confirm 100%, but the last few ships it happened with were all US Design First Rates, the exact name eludes me unfortunately... I'm pretty sure it was 42 pounders too, but I'll try to check once I'm at my PC again! But maybe the game checks for the next possible level of cannons within the 1.5 multiplier and simply displays 42 because 48 is not available? For example, a frigate usually uses 24 pounders, but americans can use up to 36, it still should display only 32, because nothing else is available, right? As mentionned before, I'm no coder though, that's just a thought that just occured to me...

Don Lasagnetti said: ↑

“Bug 5:
A lot of feats are available repeatedly after use, for example the instant boarding feat. I can board 10 ships in a row with it, if I want to, without having to wait at all​

Can anyone confirm that? Since what modpack release is that happening, I wonder.

I'm not sure, but I think it's been possible in 2.1 and 2.2 already. I played no modpack prior to 2.1

Perfectly true in Beta 2.3. A long time ago we lost the code that made worldmap encounters skippable only some times and not always.
However, I found the code that is responsible for that and this should return back to normal with the fix files in this thread:

Thanks, I'll be checking this out for sure!
Thank you again Pieter for all the work you are doing and the effort you put into helping out everyone the best you can! I can't say how much I appreciate that

I just wonder if it is already a good idea to make them more powerful. Don Lasagnetti, on the one hand you want more powerful prommotion swords, while on other hand you say fencing is too easy.
I personally find fencing overall very much too difficult ... but it improves with e decent sword. The best I found is that Sabre of Nicholas Sharpe out of the "Toofs Daughter" Quest in the stock Nathaniel Hawke storyline. Perhaps Promotions words should be about that power?

Hello Skyworm, and thanks for your answer too! It's just my personal experience, but, as stated above, consistent across all storylines with all characters I've tried so far. I've gone through the Advanced Options and Internal Settings and changed everything I think could influence this a bit for my last game, but it's still the same.
I'm not asking for promotion swords for the sake of power, but rather that they be increased a bit, to keep up with better standard swords that become available, like the Polish Huszar's Szabla or US Cavalry Sabre. I'm actually using the weaker Corsair's Pride in my current game, just because I like it and because I still have no problem beating opponents with better swords... I don't think they should be quite as strong as Nicolas Sharp's sabre, but not too far away either, giving them a special feeling apart from being unique. While I still use them because of their look, it would be nice if they were a bit stronger too...

To me fencing is like a big random thing.
In my newly started game, characters about lv 5, at journeyman, almost anything can happen. I can shot an enemy an kill him. Can hit him and kill him. He can shot or hit me and kill me. All that with one hit. Thus, I save before any melee combat. Of course my characters don't wear any armor, haven't found them right now.
In my other game - Hawke storyline, journeyman, short below level 30 I think, and wearing the 2nd armor, the one hitting didn't occur. But death can still come very quickly, and 2 hits are quickly done.
I hired officers much above my own level just for the purpose of fighting in melees, and usually try to get them into combat first. Then, wen they got the enemies in a fight, I join and attack too. This way I survive in most cases.

But I think balancing fencing is extremely difficult. It has been far too easy when the always blocking of the stock game was still active, but now the outcome is completely unpredictable. 4 guys can be both killed very easily, or outright kill me and my group.

Hm, I'm having different experience here, at level 30 I usually have about a hundred pieces of gilded cuirass in my weaponslocker and all my officers equipped with the same. By that time, there's barely any way but going afk to loose a swordfight... It's the same at level 5 for me though, definately, it's way more challenged and risky at that level. I like that!

About melee, I have said it gets suddenly hard about level 7-8 and stays that way until one gets the golden curiass at level 15-16. After that death is rare and only when I get 3-4 of them on me at once. As a merchantman I am often the boardee, not the boarder and sometimes die then. You betcha I pass out the golden curiass to my crew! That is the only way to capture the larger ships. It does no good to capture a tier 1 ship if there are only 12 survivors left afterwards.

As said somewhere above, I agree that melee is challenging and dangerous up until one gets the second and third armor, but from my experience really easy after that, especially the higher I level. I admit, I'm not patient enough to be a merchantman, when I see that fat Heavy East Indiaman or powerful frigate in the distance, I just feel the urge to make them mine...

So all my experience is from playing through the storylines (Assassin, Hawk, Sparrow and the French Guy) and especially from privateering for the different nations or pirating in the carribean.

 

[Skyworm]

Heya!

Fair enough; all up to whatever you prefer.
Generally the only stories that REALLY must be followed "to the letter" are the Woodes Rogers and Hornblower ones.
Bartolomeu and Assassin are fairly linear, but they don't need to be followed and occasionally come to a point where they allow, encourage or even require free play.
The Jack Sparrow storyline was especially made with free play in mind, allowing many different routes to get to the end of the story and requiring free play at times.

I greatly enjoyed the Jack Sparrow storyline for precisely that reason. Nice story, nice characters, and free playing whenever I wanted.

You're already a British Commander when you start that storyline, so you wouldn't be able to get a LoM. It'd be easy to remove that as well though.
Would reduce the realism for a REAL Master & Commander start. But then there IS no real story anyway, so we might as well make it as generic as possible, no?

Yes, it would reduce realism of that storyline. That's why I'd prefer not touching the existing storylines at all, just add a new one with no story at all. The most important parts would imho be
- choice of nation
- choice of era
Everything else - character model, ship, location - can all be done with the console.

Well, I'll be trying to put in the Customize functions in the Select Storyline interface. If I manage that, we can see what other customize functions we can add in.
And which we have to lock down to prevent messing up their respective stories.

I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Faith]

sounds good

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yes, it would reduce realism of that storyline. That's why I'd prefer not touching the existing storylines at all, just add a new one with no story at all. The most important parts would imho be
- choice of nation
- choice of era
Everything else - character model, ship, location - can all be done with the console.

We only left Master & Commander in the game because we do need A storyline set in that time period.
The Customize functionality I'm working with at the moment doesn't allow selecting the Period.
Not sure if we have anyone active here who could figure out how to allow that too. We'll see how that goes.
In the meantime, if you're happy to use the console, you can also change the starting date in PROGRAM\Storyline\[Storyline].c .