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Released Endeavour update

Your explanations are much appreciated, Post Captain. All the vocabulary involved will be very useful for future reference in rigging discussions.
It has always been a bit hit-and-miss with vocab in the past, and that has probably caused many misinterpretations.
A visual representation will make it much easier to associate the vocab with the right sections of the ship, so thanks for arranging that. :cheers
 
I actually think I'll start a new "parts of the ship" thread to avoid any future confusion... I just remembered that I have some diagrams I did a few months ago naming sails and all the major rigging. I'll just have to type out the names of every labeled part once I find the documents.
 
I've run into a problem. I found a good candidate for the sprit tops'l, but I can not get it to fit into the limited space available. We might have to go with just one sprits'l.
 
Ha! Did it! It's a tight fit but the sprit tops'l is in there. :beer

The sails are about done, and now to start on the lines. They are called ropes in GMViewer and TOOL. :? There is a longer yard that can be used there if needed.
 
Yeah, I tried to get it to look like it does in some of the paintings. Here is a slightly updated screenie. I'm getting into the rigging now.
 
I like the heads'ls too, although I do find the choices of sails used on this and the original models slightly strange. The usual arrangement looks like this, and it was the most common configuration of heads'ls: (a man of war still would have carried the forestays'l, like on the ingame version, but it was rarely set.)
victory-01.jpg

It included a foretopmast stays'l, an inner jib, and an outer jib.

My idea for more varied rigging includes adding mizzen, main, and fore royals, and a flying jib. (I haven't added the sail diagrams to my new thread (pinned) but you might be able to figure it out from the rigging diagram I put up there.)
 
Real life got me by the short and curlies for a while, but I am back to work at a reduced rate. There are still things going on. :boom


A modeler would have to create any royals for this ship. They are somewhat special and can not just be taken from another ship. I haven't seen a painting with a flying jib on this ship.
 
It doesn't matter that it was never in a painting; you see all types of reasonably common sails that aren't in paintings. It wouldn't be set in anything more than a royal breeze, though, so it wouldn't make sense to set one without royals.
 
There is an oddity in the rigging for the spanker. There are lines that run from the gaff to the ends of the yard of the mizzen sail. I have never seen these anywhere else, but when I look at paintings and models there they are.

What would their purpose be?
 
Well, I've never seen anything like that in person. I do know that they don't have any possible purpose that some other piece of rigging already has. The only things they could do are already done by the braces (controlling the angle of the yards) and gaff vangs (controlling the angle of the gaff). I have been on replicas from a few smaller vessels from the time period (I have been on Constitution as well, but that was years and years ago) and they didn't have anything like that. They'd also be highly impractical because you would have to adjust every single one of the every time you moved the spanker or any yard on the mizzenmast.
I'll be ordering a book that will explain stuff like that and I'll look it up after it arrives. I also know someone who might know what those are for who I'll be seeing again next Saturday.

I think your best bet would be to find a picture of the actual ship and see if the lines are indeed there.
 
Well, I have done some searching and have come up with a definite maybe. :eek:k

I have found drawings, models, and pictures without those lines.

I have found drawings, models, and pictures with those lines.

:shrug

My opinion is that they should not be there and I deleted them today.

Other than that I'm about done. So now to decide what sail layout is good for which ship.
 
Well, I think you made the right decision. They don't really have any discernible purpose, and therefore slow the vessel down.

As for the sails, you could tell me what you were thinking of and I could give you suggestions based on that. (It will be easier once I get my full-rigged ship diagram up on my "parts of the ship" thread after I figure out where I put it a few months ago.) In this case, since you'd need a modeler to add royals I guess the difference will lie in the jibs and stays'ls.
 
I have not started on them yet, but I'm thinking of making the Victory, the French, and the American versions the same. The different paint will make them easy to tell apart.

That just leaves the Endeavour and Dauntless to make different. Different combinations of jibs and sails should be easy to do.

This reference screenie is already a bit dated but shows the full layout.
 
Well, I don't know if you want to add sails, but one version could have a foretopmast stays'l and fore t'gallant stays'l added. Another version could have differently shaped forestays'ls and jibs with the only heads'ls being a foretopmast stays'l, an inner jib, and outer jib on the foremast, with the mizzen topmast stays', mizzen stays'l and main stays'l removed.

(I'm getting my ship diagram up today in case you didn't understand that)

Edit: The diagram is up and listed in the thread's table of contents.
 
I'm trying to learn this language. Really! :mm

The heads'ls owe their numbers and shape more to trying to not foul the fores'ls than esthetics. Removing the sprit tops'l and mizzen stays'ls and varying the heads'ls would work well for the Endeavour and Dauntless as they don't seem to have them anyway.

This is the HMS Victory, which is now the standard .
 
Post Captain said:
Well, I don't know if you want to add sails, but one version could have a foretopmast stays'l and fore t'gallant stays'l added. Another version could have differently shaped forestays'ls and jibs with the only heads'ls being a foretopmast stays'l, an inner jib, and outer jib on the foremast, with the mizzen topmast stays', mizzen stays'l and main stays'l removed.

(I'm getting my ship diagram up today in case you didn't understand that)

Edit: The diagram is up and listed in the thread's table of contents.
Click to expand...

This should work without getting in the way of anything.
 
I didn't have time to properly respond to that post before, but will attempt it now. :hmm

Foretopmast stays'l will not work. It would be behind the fores'l most of the time.

Fore t'gallant stays'l: This is common on models but not in paintings or pictures. It could be added to a very late period ship. Originally the Victory had no stays'ls at all.

There is room to work on the forestays'l some more. It can be reshaped and/or removed. The inner jib is shaped so that it does not foul the fores'l and does not have too bad of an arch across the bottom. The outer jib is the closest to reality.

The ships that will have different sails layout are the Endeavour and Dauntless, since they are very early versions, and RN_firstrate since she is almost identical the Victory. I'm thinking less sails for the first two, and hmmm, who knows for the latter.
 
Hylie Pistoff said:
I didn't have time to properly respond to that post before, but will attempt it now. :hmm
Originally the Victory had no stays'ls at all.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I don't know where you got that... All the square riggers built around the time of the seven year's war should have had them. I'm not sure you got exactly what I was getting at... I'll try to do a quick diagram as soon as I get enough time.
 
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